<< <i>Hopefully that just came out wrong, but a dealer that sells accurately graded and accurately priced crappy coins is a good guy, not a piece of crap. >>
Andy, I concur that selling accurately priced "crappy coins" does not make one a piece of crap. However, my experience has taught me that finding dealers who sell accurately priced "crappy coins" is not very common. Oh, I am sure there are exceptions. I have not found many yet. However I would commend you if you sold mostly accurately priced "crappy coins". That would be very refreshing.
BTW...."crappy coins" was your term. I don't think any coin is crappy. What I consider as crap are misrepresented coins. As an example, I will be attending the GNA show next week. I will literally see 100's of AT coins in PCI slabs. All misrepresented with the dealers asking NT prices. You and I both know that the dealers selling them know they are AT. nough said.
Yes, Andy, offering crap for good money will destroy your reputation. You will end up eating out of dumpsters and going broke. (or the other way around)
Anyway, it is a TERRIBLE idea and will DOOM whoever tries it.
They will be damned for eternity and out of business in a month.
<< <i>If a dealer offers SOME coins that you think are terrible LONG TERM value, will that diminish your impression of that dealer? Some examples might be superbly toned MS-63 common date Morgans at $1000, PR-70 just about anything, common date Oregons at 80K or anything else that YOU think is ridiculously valued by THE MARKET. Again, I'm NOT trying to bash the aforementioned coins. They're just examples of coins that SOME people think are bad value.
The question is simply whether you think a "good" dealer should exercise more discretion and avoid selling coins that he thinks are likely to hurt his customers in the long run. >>
I (as in me, personally, as distinguished from some other person who may have a different opinion) strongly prefer to deal with coin dealers who have a similar view of the numismatic world as I do.
So, yes, if a dealer is, in addition to selling coins I like, ALSO offering something that I think is a bad investment, or 'flavor of the month' or other goofy-a55 crap, then my opinion of that dealer will diminish strongly and steeply like a ski-hill.
Everyone has info., knowledge, and some insight different than all the others. We just bash, and re-bash, I mean hash and rehash it, until any piece of respect is given, as least enough, if you last, not to " blow you out of the" forum... ...and don't we all have fun?
As has been pointed out on these boards many times,there are collectors of all grades as well as certified and raw collectors.So for a dealer to sell different grades is essential.IMHO
<< <i>I'm going to start doing a lot more in the way of "collector sales" and need some honest feedback. Your answers will help me select my inventory.
Here's the question:
If a dealer offers SOME coins that you think are terrible LONG TERM value, will that diminish your impression of that dealer? Some examples might be superbly toned MS-63 common date Morgans at $1000, PR-70 just about anything, common date Oregons at 80K or anything else that YOU think is ridiculously valued by THE MARKET. Again, I'm NOT trying to bash the aforementioned coins. They're just examples of coins that SOME people think are bad value.
Again, this is not an ethical question. I'm NOT suggesting that the ad states that these coins are a good investment. I'm NOT suggesting that the coins aren't worth the money TODAY. I'm NOT suggesting that the dealer has done anything but offer coins at current prices to people that might WANT to buy them.
The question is simply whether you think a "good" dealer should exercise more discretion and avoid selling coins that he thinks are likely to hurt his customers in the long run. >>
The way you posed this would not affect whether or not I would purchase coins from you. I learned a long time ago in the lending business to offer the product and to explain it properly to my client but ultimately it has to be there decision whether or not which one to go for. Its a no win situation if things go badly, even if you suggest the best possibel scenario for them at the time if things happen and they do you will get the blame.
As an aside to your question there are dealers that I won't buy from or sell to because of the hypothetical hype and attmepts to oversell while minimizing the risk. If you go this route then I think full disclosure is a must.
I have no problem with a dealer offering coins that I think are a poor buying choice and I don't think any less of them. Everyone collects something different and there will be some people who want to buy those coins. They should be able to and how will they know you have them available if you don't list them. What WOULD bother me about the dealer is if he is not just advertising them but is touting or hypeing the coins as BEING a good investment.
I didn't read past the 2nd page of responses here, but I frequently read your posts (even if I don't often reply to them) and I have a VERY high regard for your opinions (both professional and ethical), and consider you to be one of the "GOOD GUYS."
Even though we've never done business, I'd confidently buy from you and ship coins to you on your promise to pay.
In answer to your question, I have always tended to avoid dealers who constantly advertise the ultra-high grade moderns as "a great investment", since I consider them to be a poor (long-term) investment.
However, if you advertised somthing along the lines of, "We always try to help collectors find the coins they are looking for, but I do NOT personally recommend these as an investment vehicle," I donot feel it would hurt your professional reputation. I would have more respect for a dealer who had the courage to be this honest!
if you try to be all things to all people and/or politically correct blah blah blah............
you will not make yourself or anyone else happy
if it was me and of course andy you are not me
but if it was me i would sell items
i like to carry and believe in and have confidence in priced fairly in todays market and making no guarantees as to the short or long term value as such
Comments
<< <i>Hopefully that just came out wrong, but a dealer that sells accurately graded and accurately priced crappy coins is a good guy, not a piece of crap. >>
Andy, I concur that selling accurately priced "crappy coins" does not make one a piece of crap. However, my experience has taught me that finding dealers who sell accurately priced "crappy coins" is not very common. Oh, I am sure there are exceptions. I have not found many yet. However I would commend you if you sold mostly accurately priced "crappy coins". That would be very refreshing.
BTW...."crappy coins" was your term. I don't think any coin is crappy. What I consider as crap are misrepresented coins. As an example, I will be attending the GNA show next week. I will literally see 100's of AT coins in PCI slabs. All misrepresented with the dealers asking NT prices. You and I both know that the dealers selling them know they are AT. nough said.
Anyway, it is a TERRIBLE idea and will DOOM whoever tries it.
They will be damned for eternity and out of business in a month.
.....................................
........Just like Franklin Mint.
<< <i>If a dealer offers SOME coins that you think are terrible LONG TERM value, will that diminish your impression of that dealer? Some examples might be superbly toned MS-63 common date Morgans at $1000, PR-70 just about anything, common date Oregons at 80K or anything else that YOU think is ridiculously valued by THE MARKET. Again, I'm NOT trying to bash the aforementioned coins. They're just examples of coins that SOME people think are bad value.
The question is simply whether you think a "good" dealer should exercise more discretion and avoid selling coins that he thinks are likely to hurt his customers in the long run. >>
I (as in me, personally, as distinguished from some other person who may have a different opinion) strongly prefer to deal with coin dealers who have a similar view of the numismatic world as I do.
So, yes, if a dealer is, in addition to selling coins I like, ALSO offering something that I think is a bad investment, or 'flavor of the month' or other goofy-a55 crap, then my opinion of that dealer will diminish strongly and steeply like a ski-hill.
CCU - Funny how we really do have to talk like that around here, isn't it?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>CCU - Funny how we really do have to talk like that around here, isn't it? >>
Even though I sometimes get a cramp in my foot from tiptoeing around the various forum sensitivities, I still dig some good coin talk.
...and don't we all have fun?
Registry 1909-1958 Proof Lincolns
Using that logic, Legend should offer raw semi-key circ Lincoln cents. I doubt they have an interest in doing so.
The point, of course, is that a dealer's offerings help define his identity. It might be counterproductive to offer all types and grades of coins.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
<< <i>I'm going to start doing a lot more in the way of "collector sales" and need some honest feedback. Your answers will help me select my inventory.
Here's the question:
If a dealer offers SOME coins that you think are terrible LONG TERM value, will that diminish your impression of that dealer? Some examples might be superbly toned MS-63 common date Morgans at $1000, PR-70 just about anything, common date Oregons at 80K or anything else that YOU think is ridiculously valued by THE MARKET. Again, I'm NOT trying to bash the aforementioned coins. They're just examples of coins that SOME people think are bad value.
Again, this is not an ethical question. I'm NOT suggesting that the ad states that these coins are a good investment. I'm NOT suggesting that the coins aren't worth the money TODAY. I'm NOT suggesting that the dealer has done anything but offer coins at current prices to people that might WANT to buy them.
The question is simply whether you think a "good" dealer should exercise more discretion and avoid selling coins that he thinks are likely to hurt his customers in the long run. >>
The way you posed this would not affect whether or not I would purchase coins from you. I learned a long time ago in the lending business to offer the product and to explain it properly to my client but ultimately it has to be there decision whether or not which one to go for. Its a no win situation if things go badly, even if you suggest the best possibel scenario for them at the time if things happen and they do you will get the blame.
As an aside to your question there are dealers that I won't buy from or sell to because of the hypothetical hype and attmepts to oversell while minimizing the risk. If you go this route then I think full disclosure is a must.
I didn't read past the 2nd page of responses here, but I frequently read your posts (even if I don't often reply to them) and I have a VERY high regard for your opinions (both professional and ethical), and consider you to be one of the "GOOD GUYS."
Even though we've never done business, I'd confidently buy from you and ship coins to you on your promise to pay.
In answer to your question, I have always tended to avoid dealers who constantly advertise the ultra-high grade moderns as "a great investment", since I consider them to be a poor (long-term) investment.
However, if you advertised somthing along the lines of, "We always try to help collectors find the coins they are looking for, but I do NOT personally recommend these as an investment vehicle," I donot feel it would hurt your professional reputation. I would have more respect for a dealer who had the courage to be this honest!
___________________________
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ronsrarecoin.com
ebay auctions for ronsrarecoin-com
if you try to be all things to all people and/or politically correct blah blah blah............
you will not make yourself or anyone else happy
if it was me and of course andy you are not me
but if it was me i would sell items
i like to carry
and believe in
and have confidence in
priced fairly in todays market
and making no guarantees as to the short or long term value as such
michael