Lg sized capped bust quarters?

Baley

anyone else collect these? what is your opinion of the die variety and/or grade for this one?





what about this one?









thanks

1907Quarter

Baley-
I've seen a ton and liked none...I'd go vg10 on the above and I think that's generous, and g6 on the lower but I'm not a fan of the surfaces, likely cleaned in some way...
Eugene

ealandg

I don't know about the die varieties, but I am going to give coin #1 a F12 grade because it has a full, strong Liberty, which is one of the indicators on these babies.

I'm not sure about the second one because there is no reverse, but I would say VG8. I don't like the look of this one (no offense). I don't like the scratches and I also don't like the look of the surface on this one.

I think coin #1 is much nicer, so please feel free to send it to me at your convenience.

JadeRareCoin

Baley,

CONGRATULATIONS!! It looks as if you have an 1818 B-10, which is a very tough variety. It's listed as R.6, but I recall having a discussion with the authors/researchers of the soon to be released book on Bust Quarters that the rarity dropped to R.5. Nonetheless, this is a scarce coin. I love the look of it, too. Very original and a solid F-12.

DOUBLE CONGRATULATIONS!! You have another rare variety. It's 1819 B-4, which is R.6 or mayber high R.5. It looks like an early die state, which is even scarcer. The reverse (recut 5 in denomination) is the same as used on B-3, which is extremely common, but your coin has a different obverse die. I grade it as VG-8. Both coins are very nice.

Wow! Fantastic!

originalisbest

each of those coins are far nicer than most. Much more "original" than some.

Baley

Thanks guys, boy Eugene, your standards for un"cleaned" are really strict! I do not think either coin looks cleaned, but note that I bounced a lot of light off the 1819 in order to show the features important in identifying the variety, so the closeup surfaces might look a little "off". As for "I've seen a ton and liked none", the first part of that surprises me, I have not seen very many large sized capped bust quarters (relative to other types of coins), although the second part, about not liking them, does not, they do not generally come very nice, and when they do, they are kind of pricey.

ealandg, thanks for your comments, I agree that the 1819 has a couple marks, but don't think these are uncommensurate with a VG or VG+ coin. (I did edit and insert the omitted reverse pic) For the 1818 I will also go along with Fine, maybe even Fine+ for the original looking surfaces.

What I find most interesting about these pieces, though, is the die varieties, I wonder if anyone else collects and studies these by Browning?

ealandg

Cool! This has been an interesting thread. I love bust coins - draped and capped.

Baley

thanks jadecoin, you're right on, both seem to be as you have attributed,

and originalisbest, thank you to, judging by your handle I guess it's no surprise you'd like these

Baley

the soon to be released book on Bust Quarters

now I'm excited, when will this volume be available?

(Was just thinking that Browning was desperately in need of an update)

Conder101

Jade, I agree with your attributions but where did you get those rarity figures? I use the 1987 Jules Reiver VIM book on these and he lists the rarity of the 18 B-10 as an R-1 and the 19 B-4 as an R-4.

JadeRareCoin

Conder, I am referencing Browning as revised by Breen. Note that I modified some of the rarity ratings based upon discussions with the authors of the new book on the subject. Most every quarter will see a downwardly revised rarity rating, although there are a couple which will have an increased rarity rating, believe it or not.

Baley, the book is in the final stages, but I cannot comment (because I don't know) when it will be released. I am guessing within a year. I can't wait. It's my understanding that the delay is due to super-dooper high quality photographs that will be in the book. Anyone who has ever used the Browning book as revised by Breen will know that the images are very low quality and, in a few instances, are even the wrong images for the respective variety.

Dennis

coinlieutenant

I like the 1818 alot Dave...

John

Nysoto

Baley,

Those are nice original bust quarters. I started a collection of these, sold off all but one when I decided to concentrate on preturb halves. The one I kept is an 1819 with the same re-punched 5 on the reverse, but the other, more common die marriage.

There is a very interesting thread on rarity of bust quarters on the bust coin forum in the Bust Coin Trading Circle website. Louis Scuderi, a bust quarter collector for over 20 years, has the 1818 B10 as an R.2. There were many changes to the rarity ratings of bust quarters in last year's JRJ census, most downward.

Capped bust quarters are a very interesting series, a new discovery was made a few years ago (1837 B6). Also, the Bust Quarter Collector's Society recently formed.

Baley

Thanks guys, looking forward to the new book and will check into the Reiver volume, it's true about Browning/Breen, lots of wrong pics, look at 1806 No. 2, wrong reverse.

Not ready for the BQCS quite yet though, only have a handful of these and the DBs

Interesting about the 1837 B-6 being discovered, If you can check, what's the new revised rarity of the B-1, I've got a decent EF example of that one that I felt was a cherry, nice die crack at the date.

One thing I'm thinking about with respect to the rarities of the various marriages, is that even though rarities in absolute terms (R5 "Rare" with 31-80 known) may decline (for example, maybe an estimated 100-150 are now known, making in only a "very scarce" R4 coin, it seems that the RELATIVE rarities (versus the more common types) wouldn't change as much, because more of those will also be known.

does this make sense? In real terms, just by surveying ebay and other online sites, it does seem that the common varieties are a lot more common than the scarcer ones, in two years of actively looking these are the first examples of these varieties I've seen in a condition I'd consider (I don't like them harshly cleaned, damaged, or worn to AG, so that eliminates most of what's out there, and I can't afford them higher than VF so that narrows the search further.) I'd be interested if anyone has pics of coins in this series they can show and we can look them up too

ealandg

I just bought an 1815 in F, but it hasn't arrived yet. I will post pictures as soon as it is here. I do have a couple of the smaller ones...

Varlis

Hey Baley--nice looking coins and interesting thread. I am collecting bust quarters by Browning-Breen variety, but my budget doesn't really allow me to chase down those tougher varieties.

JadeCoin: I have a question about the relative rarity of the 1818 B-10 in particular and BQ varieties in general--I in fact posted a question about the B-10 variety awhile back (before you were, uh, reinstated). Basically I pointed out that in the BB book, the rarity is listed as a R-6, which I would agree is inflated, and you heard through the grapevine that it's more like a R-5. My question, though, is why the JRCS Bust Quarter census has it listed as a R-3 (July 2003). My guess (an opinion confirmed by some board members) is that the R-3 better reflects what's actually out there. What do you think?

Incidentally, I have seen no less than THREE 1818 B-10 quarters on E-bay in the last two months or so; one of which was this really nice one:




Unfortunately I was outbid.

1907Quarter

Baley- you may be right and I wrong, it could very well be a lighting thing. I see light line striations running across the coin. If they look anything like Varlis' coin pic you have a winner!

Baley

there's no right or wrong, each coin is what it is

Here's one that's pretty nice (and pricey)

Incredible Toning

JadeRareCoin

JadeCoin: I have a question about the relative rarity of the 1818 B-10 in particular and BQ varieties in general--I in fact posted a question about the B-10 variety awhile back (before you were, uh, reinstated). Basically I pointed out that in the BB book, the rarity is listed as a R-6, which I would agree is inflated, and you heard through the grapevine that it's more like a R-5. My question, though, is why the JRCS Bust Quarter census has it listed as a R-3 (July 2003). My guess (an opinion confirmed by some board members) is that the R-3 better reflects what's actually out there. What do you think?

Varlis, I did not have my copy of the census handy when I posted and was just going from my memory (which is flawed). Obviously the JRCS census is the most accurate information available, although I have argued on a few of the census rarity ratings in the past.

The Breen census numbers are almost always inflated, but that's understandable, since he had limited information when he wrote the book(s). However, there are a couple of coins that were understated in terms of rarity and they will show an upwardly revised rarity rating.

Funny story: The Breen Encyclopedia lists the 1805 B-5 at "R.7, 2 known". At the Michigan State Fall Show a few years ago, we had 2 1807 B-5 quarters in our case! I was told by a couple of guys "in the know" that B-5 was more like R.5. However, I have not been able to find another example in the past 2 years and I look at every 1805 that I can. Maybe it's R.6??

1946Hamm

Here are a couple to look at. 1804 is in an ANACS slab and net graded and the 1806 is in a PCGS slab.

Varlis

Baley, that MS61 has been on eBay for awhile and I wish I could afford it.

PS--if anyone out there happened to be the high bidder on 1818 I posted and you're ever looking to sell it, well--you just let me know.

Baley

The Breen Encyclopedia lists the 1805 B-5 at "R.7, 2 known". At the Michigan State Fall Show a few years ago, we had 2 1807 B-5 quarters in our case! I was told by a couple of guys "in the know" that B-5 was more like R.5. However, I have not been able to find another example in the past 2 years and I look at every 1805 that I can. Maybe it's R.6??

it's rare, maybe just not extremely rare. there may be a few dozen in all conditions, certainly not more than 100. Just not many for sale at any given time. Some might not yet be attributed.

Gary (1946Hamm) WOW, nice coins, your 1804 looks Very Fine and net Fine for some damage, still a well above average example of a RARE coin! and your 1806 looks EF+ and choice.

Varlis, sounds like you have a nice set going, can you show some pics?
I've got a date run going, here's a recent arrival, another Fine-ish coin similar to the '18 and '19, I like them in Fine.

1946Hamm

Baley ; You are right on. The 1804 is VF details net F-15 in ANACS. The 1806 is in a PCGS EF-45 holder. I picked both coins up a few years ago. 1997 or 1998. Their value has went up considerably. I was building a type set at the time and was striving for EF or better for all types from 1800 up. I added the gold coins from classic heads up to it in the last couple years. Makes a nice set.

I really like your Dansco type set. Type coins in those conditions really show off the designs and make a very nice looking set.

Nic

Great thread. Neat coins in all grades IMHO. I like the circ's in F or better though have few. My current type set coin. K

roadrunner

Nice coin Nic. Just the way I like them to look. I only own one Bust quarter and it's an 1818/5. It is very hard to find one not cleaned or dipped with that all orig look.

roadrunner

Baley

Wow Nic, all of your coins are awesome!

here's another one to look at, in Fine or so..

link

Baley

wow, the above auction closed above $200! (I was an uninterested observer, know neither buyer nor seller) The coin was attractive F-15 was about right

Trends for a Fine-12 is $100. VF is $280

Some of these early coins are trading well above even the optimistic "sheets"

LanLord

Now this is my kind of thread. I love anything with a bust design on it.

Varlis

<< <i> Some of these early coins are trading well above even the optimistic "sheets" >>



Yes, this is true.

Here's one of mine:



And one I wish I had:

MacCoin

I sure like bust coins and would grade the 18 as vf and the 19 as f. Man! I really love that o6 Gary posted even if it has been cleaned.

uncleb

<< <i>One thing I'm thinking about with respect to the rarities of the various marriages, is that even though rarities in absolute terms (R5 "Rare" with 31-80 known) may decline (for example, maybe an estimated 100-150 are now known, making in only a "very scarce" R4 coin, it seems that the RELATIVE rarities (versus the more common types) wouldn't change as much, because more of those will also be known.

does this make sense? >>



It is safe to say that a R5 coin will likely always be considered less common that your current R1s, even if the rarity drops to R2. But that begs the issue with regard to the marketplace. An R5 could easily drop in rarity, even perceived rarity, enough that it would no longer garner a premium over an R1 because the specialist market for the R4+ coins is so razor thin. I've become somewhat jaded in this regard and won't even consider a premium bid for a bust dime unless I perceive it to be R4+.

JrGMan2004

I like the color on the first, even though it's really worn... don't like the color on #2... but the crack and the repunch are cool!

Conder101

Does anyone here have any of the E or L 1815 or 1825 counterstamped pieces?

Baley

do you mean the ones that were given out to students for excellence in English or Latin,
or the ones that were marked according to weight if they were in Excess or Light of tolerances?

Conder101

The ones marked E and L for unknown reasons. (No way to prove they were for English or Latin prizes, and the weights of the coins don't support the Excess/Light theory.

elwood

Baley

nice coin, elwood!

here's a coin auction I was watching, an 1825 quarter in AG, cleaned, that went for $300+

Someones likes that Late Die State with the massive die crack/break/cud?

the market for these is heating up, another recent auction closed at about double trends for a Good of the same date, EDS (no break at arrows.)

Baley

here are a couple more in Good or so..





a closeup of the overdate

lordmarcovan

Guess I'm with 1907quarter on the technical grades. VG10 on the top coin, G6 on the lower one. However, I have no beef with the lower one's surfaces- if it was cleaned, that doesn't really bother me in this particular instance. Like 'em both.

Baley

here's that 1837 B1, need to take a better picture but how do you like it as an EF?



an uncommon variety, with prominent die cracks on both sides

DominusDeus

Large sized capped bust quarter is one of the 2 or 3 types of quarters I need for my poor-man's quarter set. Though the 5-coin quarter holder I have that has 2 holes left in it, are too small for them, which sucks.

lordmarcovan

I've not had many. Used to own a nice looking 1815 in a PCGS VF25 holder, with strong clashmarks on the obverse.

One of these days, I hope to dig one.

tmot99

Here is my one and only large Bust quarter.




Tom

Baley

Tom, Nice 25/50!

Conder, here's one with the "L" , as you were referring to...

Conder101

Now THAT"S a piece you don't see very often. A very nice one as well. Some day I have got to examine some more of those in person.

Elcontador

Die cracks are common on small dentil (close collar) Capped Bust Qtrs. Have an 1835 with the raised 3 (think it's an R-1).

lordmarcovan

<< <i>Lg sized capped bust quarters? >>



Yes, please.

DominusDeus

Very cool.. I like it.

Baley

Wow, check out the closing price on this 1825 in "good"... over $400!

Someone(s) really liked that reverse cud at the arrowheads!!

OKbustchaser

A terminal die state example...This is a rare coin with just the die crack through the arrow heads...I don't remember ever even seeing one with this full cud.

Unknown

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