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opinions on circulated gold type coins? like the classic, no motto coronet, and $3 indians
Baley
Posts: 22,658 ✭✭✭✭✭
what are your thoughts about coins such as these?
tough types to find Unc, and expensive, do most type collectors settle for a circulated coin for their sets or just do without?
I'd like to hear from intermediate and advanced type set collectors.
tough types to find Unc, and expensive, do most type collectors settle for a circulated coin for their sets or just do without?
I'd like to hear from intermediate and advanced type set collectors.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
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2. Classic HE: Better, okay match for the capped bust icon coin
3. $3: Like the date, very hairlined, I think you could do better without spending a lot
4. $5: Like the date choice (especially the big "S" on the reverse, nice coin
5. $10: Nice crusty coin, though to my eye, not nice enough for your type set
I am working on a 19th Century New Orleans gold type set. I get coins in the best condition that I can afford while still getting interesting coins for the type. For example, I recently purchased a New Orleans half eagle. Instead of purchasing a 1844-O (the most common No Motto date) in Unc, I purchased the 1845-O In AU-58. My $20 NO type is the 1861-O in XF-45. In short, nice circulated gold types are okay by me.
Well, here are the "answers", I will say that the coins look better at normal size,
rather than blown up to the size of a salad plate.
I guess I'm wondering if it would be better to spend the money to upgrade these types,
or save up to pursue an early type I don't have yet,
such as a 1795-1807 or 1813-29 half eagle.
here is another coin, care to take a guess at the grade on this one?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I have filled all of these type coin spots with high end AU and low end Mint State (at least according to the slabbers) coins. In those grades, these coins are still affordable although "grade flation" is making it harder. I think that a collector would be well served to build his type set with the best coins that he can afford over time as opposed to buying lower grade coins all at once to fill the holes. I also think that many of these coins that are in Mint State holders are NOT Mint State at all unless you purchase pieces with at least an MS-63 on them. In fact MS-64 may be more like it.
Here's my opinion of the coins that you posted based upon the pictures. I hope I don't offend, but I'll give you an honest opinion.
1838 $2.50 - I'd grade it VF-30. It's a nice coin, but it's got a few too many circulation marks for me. I'm a anti-bag / circulation mark person.
1838 $5.00 - I'd grade it VF-30, but this type of coin ends up in EF-40 holders. I think the coin has been lightly cleaned (enhanced) to make it look brighter, but it should still grade. I had one that I graded VF-35 that NGC called AU-55 that looked a lot like this. There are VERY FEW real Mint State coins of this type. The only ones I have seen were in MS-64 holders. The piece in my collection is graded MS-61, but I'd call it AU-58.
1882 $3.00 gold - Sorry I don't like this coin at all. The marks have a pattern to them that says to me that this piece has been cleaned or wiped. Wipping was done to make the coin brighter. The sharpness grade looks to be EF-40 or so, but with the wipe, I'd net it to VF-25.
1855 $5.00 gold - Looks like a nice coin! I'd say AU-50 or so. I purchased one as an AU-55 years ago and had it slabbed last spring. It came back in an MS-62 holder. Grade - Flation.
1855 $10 gold - This is a decent VF-30 coin that will probably end up a EF-40 holder. This type is very tough is strict Mint State. 19th century collectors could not afford to set aside very many $10 gold coins that they would not spend for a collection.
If there is interest I'll post pictures of the gold coins of these types from my collection.
Please do.
Very pretty coins, though. You have quite a nice type set.
here is another coin, care to take a guess at the grade on this one?
You're throwing us a curve I think as thats a MS61
This one is in an MS-62 holder. I'd call it AU-59, if there was such a thing. It lacks detail because of a broken obverse die.
This one is in an MS-61 holder. I grade it as an AU-58, but this is the best you can hope for in a 61 holder. These coins are very scarce in strict Mint State.
This one is the best AU-58 I've ever seen for this type. These coins are very scarce in strict Mint State and the prices reflect that.
The dealer from whom I purchased this piece many years ago called it "Commercial Unc." Today it's in an MS-62. This is about as good as it gets for an MS-62 from what I have seen. Most pieces have lots of marks and are not Mint State. The mintage on this date was just 3,000 pieces, but that fact does not add much to the price.
I bought this one off a small dealer's bid wall back in the '80s. At that time it was an AU-55. Today it's an MS-62. These No Motto five dollar gold coins are quite scarce in Mint State, but no quite as tough as their $10 big sisters. In general I'd say that all of the no motto gold coins are still underrated. The reason is that most collectors are happy to own or stop at the eight or twelve piece type set.
And here's the advertisement for this string - I am a dealer, and if you would like coins like this, they can still be found. You just have look. If you want me to look for you, send me an email. A couple of comments - If you want to buy these coins at "bid" I can't help you. AND if you want me to undersell most of the crooks on ebay I can't help you either. There is no Santa Claus in this area of the market. Only good dealers for smart buyers.
Nice coins and thanks for sharing.
A couple of comments - If you want to buy these coins at "bid" I can't help you. AND if you want me to undersell most of the crooks on ebay I can't help you either. There is no Santa Claus in this area of the market. Only good dealers for smart buyers.
I agree with the above 1000%.
No Motto Gold was one of my favorites to look for in high circulated grades. I like original crusty ones best but I mostly see the crack out game played too much with these coins. I have seen original beauties that get the bump after they have been enhanced. It is sad but I haven't bought a gold coin from this era for quite awhile.
Buy originals when possible and even 45 is a decent grade for some dates. And yes I like your 1855 $10 and even the 55-s $5.
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
To my liking, I find that ms gold even a 61 ir 62 is quite sufficient to get the full impact of the coin and the nuances of the die/strike. U.S. Gold is very tricky from what I see, you end up looking at the most minute items to get the feel for the grade and then you realize that you are are looking at a weak strike that looks worn but not circulated and a weak strike can look almost like a cleaned au 40+ when it is actually a 61. A cartwheel is nice but with unc gold you dont always get a morgan cartwheel, it can be fairly subtle.
I do believe that slabbed unc/au gold is certainly the best way to go if you get the bug but there just aren't too many of them to select from but you can buy very nice slabbed au gold early coinage for not too much buks. There are a number of ways to mess with gold, you can clean it, counterfeit it, and many other things and being a nice shiny rare metal...there are plenty of people screwing with these coins, at least there are sure a lot of not genuine or cleaned coins out there to be seen.
Heritage has some and some of the other auction houses and I keep up with a couple of dealers that are looking but they are still hard to find. I wouldn't buy a gold piece on ebay with YOUR money...hee hee a sure fire disaster looking for a place to happen. Most people that have these coins are keeping them unless they are a rare date. The rare dates are excessively pricey. I have seen (and own one) some exceptional au58's w/cartwheel and set it next to a 61 and you will just shake your head trying to see a 200% difference in price. I find that for each ms grade, the price doubles for the indians and I suspect for other pieces as well. Ex, $150 for a very nice au 50+, 300+ for a ms 61, 700 for a solid 63, and after that you can just get your wallet out and leave it out. I will say that a slabbed 63 indian is a damn nice coin, one that you will see in your sleep!
Bottom line and in answer to your question, I would say that MS slabbed gold is an exquisite coin and it is kind of like drinking lime in your tea...after you've tried it, you won't go back to drinking it straight.
Best of luck in your hunting.
This 1852 $20 Type 1 Lib (that I submitted raw) is kind of pretty also:
Stuart
Collect 18th & 19th Century US Type Coins, Silver Dollars, $20 Gold Double Eagles and World Crowns & Talers with High Eye Appeal
"Luck is what happens when Preparation meets Opportunity"
If I had it my way, stupidity would be painful!