Help! ICCS holder emergency!plus acetone dip question

XpipedreamR · February 23, 2004 6:10AM

I just got an awesome Canadian coin in the mail. It's a 1967 dollar, SP-66 Heavy Cameo. The problem is this...

The large coin has torn through the brittle, inner non-PVC holder, and is now exposed to the outer PVC holder.

I don't want to send the coin back to the seller (Colonial Acres) because I like the coin a lot, and it would be a pain in the butt to send it back to Canada. I can't see myself ever selling the coin, so I guess I could just take it out. Do you think ICCS would reholder it? That would be a pain, too, I'm sure. I've waited long enough for the coin already! I don't want to send it away

How urgent is it that I get the coin away from the PVC?

What would you guys do in this situation?

Help, I'm freaking out!

(sort of

)

1jester · February 23, 2004 6:13AM

Get it out of the PVC environment pronto. Give it a good acetone bath, and put it in a safe place. Keep the label so you can proudly point to having busted a coin out of a "slab".

In all probablility, the coin hasn't yet sustained any PVC damage, but treat it with acetone just to be sure. In fact, that's what I do with every ICCS "slab" I get. I always bust them out of there and give them a bath.

PVC has absolutely no place in numismatics. It's really negligent of ICCS to use PVC, even as an outer holder.

rhound1977 · February 23, 2004 6:15AM

You can always send it to a TPG that doesn't use that type of holder, but keep the original grading label.

coinrookie · February 23, 2004 6:18AM

For now, put it in a nice airtite.

XpipedreamR · February 23, 2004 6:26AM

I think I'll have to put in an Airtite holder. This will be my first Airtite. Would it be the same size as a US dollar? Is that how the Airtite sizes are labelled...by denomination? I vaguely remember seeing the packages labeled with the diameter rather that the denomination. What is the right size for a dollar?

I'm so anal, I'm going to have to put all my coins in Airtites now

Do those foamy insert ring thingies cause any problems for the coin?

Clankeye · February 23, 2004 6:26AM

I'm not sure I agree with 1Jester about giving it "a bath" but, I don't see a reason not to put it in a nice AirTite and keep the ICCS holder and certificate. If you choose to sell the coin down the road, and it really is as nice as the grade indicates, it's going to sell.

1Jester--this acetone dipping you do... why? To remove even possible PVC contamination from having been in an ICCS holder? I am sincerely asking. I take coins out of ICCS holders all the time--but I don't have any fear that they need to be dipped in acetone. If the coin did have PVC damage--then I guess. But, I would never want to dip a coin unless I had to.

Clankeye

1jester · February 23, 2004 6:28AM

I think Airtites would be a very good choice. They make the coins look handsome. I understand the foam rings cause no damage. I don't know about the sizing; I think everything is sold in mm sizes. Soon some experts will tell you, as I know nothing.

Clankeye · February 23, 2004 6:28AM

<< <i>Would it be the same size as a US dollar? >>

No. It is a different size.

Go to this website and there should be a chart for Airtite diameters for the different denominations.

Airtites

Clankeye

1jester · February 23, 2004 6:34AM

Clank, in the case PipeDream's mentioning, I think there is a distinct possibility of PVC contact, and for this reason I'd definitely use acetone. I've never heard of acetone harming a coin, and therefore I have no reservations about using it. I don't consider it a "dip" because it's neither an acid nor a soap.

Once I did notice PVC spots on a coin that was inside an ICCS holder, but most likely it was exposed to PVC before being "slabbed" by ICCS. Naturally, I gave it a bath and noticed the acetone get slightly cloudy from that coin, so there was definitely PVC contamination on the coin.

Yes, I find myself doing this to many coins now, as a matter of precaution. Unless I know the source and history of the coin. Say for example, I pull a coin out of a mint set, then I know it's safe and PVC-free. But there are so many coins I come across that show signs of PVC contamination (either haze, greenish look, oily feel, etc) and I give them all a bath. The acetone turns cloudy and oily. There is so much PVC poison out there, folks!!!

MyWorldCoinTypeSet · February 23, 2004 6:36AM

Relax.

PVC damage occurs over a fairly long period of time, not in days or even weeks. The acetone bath is overkill in my opinion, and any handling of a coin (especially a Heavy Cameo) risks impairing it.

The airtight suggestion is a good one.

ajaan · February 23, 2004 6:41AM

I would contact Colonial Acres just to let them know. I received an ICCS coin from them today also. I'm cutting it out to put in my Whiman Album. It is an 1899 25c G-6

cacheman · February 23, 2004 6:44AM

It is my understanding that the black foam rings for airtites can soften through time and leach to the coin surface. Use only the white foam inserts. I, too, give all my coins an acteone rinse upon their arrival. If not for protection from PVC, protection from finger oils or other contaminations. I feel better knowing the coin/medal is starting its life in my collection as contamination free as possible.

1jester · February 23, 2004 6:52AM

I'm with Cacheman on this one. I don't want any lingering PVC contamination to be able to continue its deadly toll.

Of course, I agree with PBRat that it takes some time for PVC to harm a coin, but that time period is variable, and I've seen PVC transfer within days of being put in a PVC holder. Usually this is evident after a coin has been mailed, so as short a time period as 3-4 days can transfer PVC to a coin. This alone doesn't mean the coin has been harmed, but it does mean it needs to be conserved.

PVC is no joke!!! Why do people continue using it?

ajaan · February 23, 2004 6:59AM

<< <i>PVC is no joke!!! Why do people continue using it? >>

Because it is inexpensive, and not brittle like non-PVC flips. Let's face reality, coin dealers have to save money anyway they can. When you have a large number of coins in flips, the cheaper the flip the more economical it is. We may all disagree, but that is the way it is.

Clankeye · February 23, 2004 7:26AM

I have never dipped (for lack of better term) a coin in acetone. If that coin had a fingerprint for example, would it remove it? Would it remove light toning?

Just curious.

Clankeye

cacheman · February 23, 2004 7:30AM

no, acetone would not remove established prints or light toning. That is the point I was trying to make...who says the previous owner didn't thumb print the piece prior to mailing it to you? You aren't going to see that print so to insure that you don't end up with a print down the road that can't be removed you rinse the piece off with acetone which washes the oils away.

1jester · February 23, 2004 7:30AM

It depends on how old the fingerprint is. Usually acetone doesn't remove toning or older fingerprints.

laurentyvan · February 23, 2004 8:20AM

When I set out to purchase a 1965 FDC French mint set I was warned from several directions about the soft PVC plastic these coins were in. When I received my e-bay purchase I immediately confirmed that this mint set was indeeed housed in PVC softened plastic, and yet there was not a mark or discoloration on the coins after decades of storage. Why not? (Currently stored in airtites)

I believe that storage conditions can mitigate or dramatize the effect of PVC on coins. Some environments will accelerate, others retard the potential that PVC has to damage coins. 1Jester, I believe you relate a story about coins being damaged by storage near the ocean...?

Acetone treatment will not damage a coin so there is no reason to even discuss its use as any effect will be at worst neutral, at best beneficial and frequently so, especially to correct recent abuses. What used car owner does not detail his car when he first acquires it, and lovingly apply a cleaner and coats of wax to protect his purchase?

And by the way, hasn't this ever happened to you before with a non-darkside coin?

XpipedreamR · February 23, 2004 10:52AM

Thanks for the advice!

The more I think about it, the more annoyed I am with the lame ICCS holder. I think I am going to take all my ICCS coins out of their holders. The two layers of cheap plastic totally obscure the beauty of the coins inside.

For some reason, though, I'm a little hesitant to do it. I don't know why. I'm probably not selling them. I hate the holder. So what's my problem?

I'm such a chicken!

hookedoncoins · February 23, 2004 11:00AM

You could always resubmit them again before selling (if you choose to do so). Did you pay an incredible premium for the grade (that you may not get back if they didn't regrade the same)?

XpipedreamR · February 23, 2004 11:14AM

I paid a good price, but I don't think I would say it was an "incredible" or even an "unreasonable" premium for the coins. And they're clearly very nice pieces, even without the holder to tell you so

, so I don't know what my hang-up is.

How do you guys generally store/display your Airtite coins?

Sorry to be so dense, but I'm still not quite "down" with the whole Airtite thing yet...I'd never really even considered them before today!

Thanks!!!

1jester · February 23, 2004 2:47PM

"I believe that storage conditions can mitigate or dramatize the effect of PVC on coins. Some environments will accelerate, others retard the potential that PVC has to damage coins. 1Jester, I believe you relate a story about coins being damaged by storage near the ocean...?" ----Laurent

True, and true. But key to my story is that I also had a lot of coins in mylar holders and they sustained no damage whatsoever. So the deadly ingredient here is none other than PVC.

I implore you all to stay away from PVC. It kills coins.

XpipedreamR · February 24, 2004 3:22AM

When doing the acetone dip, is it necessary to rinse off the acetone with distilled water or anything? I know acetone is very volatile, and will evaporate, but I'm worried about residue from hardware store-grade acetone. Is this what you guys use?

PS: I searched "acetone" threads on the boards, and I keep getting an error message for some reason

laurentyvan · February 24, 2004 3:28AM

I'm not sure if there is a difference between hardware store grade and any other grade as long as the can says 100% pure acetone.

I use my acetone (purchased at a hardware store) after a wash in distilled water if just dipped in MS70, followed by an air dry in front of a desk fan. Otherwise just a soaking to degrease or help certain coins that will benefit from it.

MacCrimmon · February 24, 2004 3:37AM

go to Home Depot or similar and go to the paint department. They'll have 100% acetone in 1 qt. cans.

$4-5 for the stuff. Use it in a well-ventilated area and away from flames or lightswitches or whisky

.....it can explode. all it needs is a spark! Just follow the precautions. You do not and should not use water after the acetone. Any amount of "residue" which may be left behind is inconsequential in my experience, and you're more likely to have water spot problems using water as a last "treatment".... good luck.

Also, use a can of pure compressed air to blow off the coin and blow the dust, etc. off the air-tite just before sealing.

SYRACUSIAN · February 24, 2004 9:21PM

Check out airtite products (top left) to see a variety of ways to display them. There are special boxes, configurations, a very sophisticated system that covers the most demanding needs , as close to "made to order" as you can get with an industrialized product. And no, the sizes are not directly linked to US coins like the Whitmans for ex., except their direct fits (no foam ring).

PS: Are you all doing it on purpose and bring up the PVC subject so often? Jester will end up with a heart attack .

XpipedreamR · February 24, 2004 10:26PM

Thanks!

I haven't seen you posting too much lately...Good to see you back.

Yes, I am trying to give jester a heart attack. I'm a real troublemaker!!!

DeutscherGeist · October 7, 2004 12:19AM

When one dips a coin in acetone, how should it be handled. I mean, should one wear surgical gloves when handling a newly bathed coin. I don't think it is wise to touch coins with a bare hand once it has been cleaned of fingerprints in the first place. What do you guys think?

ccrdragon · October 7, 2004 1:03AM

I use the latex gloves when dipping in acetone because of 2 reasons:
1. No oil on the coins from my fingers
2. Acetone will also remove all of the oil from your fingers (making it VERY necessary to use skin conditioner after it's use).

MacCrimmon · October 7, 2004 1:41AM

Won't acetone "melt" latex gloves?

1jester · October 7, 2004 2:38AM

DeutscherGeist, I use my bare hands, but limit my contact with acetone as much as possible. I use a pair of metal tongs (very carefully, since that might even scratch the edge of the coin), but if the coin's too small, I hold the coin by the edges only. Acetone will indeed melt many types of plastic, so I don't use gloves. Of course, my fingers tend to get a bit dry after all this, but then I use lotion and even vitamin E afterwards to restore the oil to my hands.

"Yes, I am trying to give jester a heart attack. I'm a real troublemaker!!!" --PipeDream

traderdave · October 7, 2004 2:48AM

I think acetone would certainly disolve latex gloves, ordinary gasoline sure does. Acetone rapidly absorbs through the skin, and is known to destroy brain cells. Its deadly stuff, even the vapor. Best to use rubber coated tongs to dip the coin in that. (Available from Lighthouse in NJ, @ 1-800-269-1513) Amos Advantage, parent Company of CoinWorld, sells Airtight holders AND display cases-boxes, I believe. They have a web site, and they advertize in their publications. Lighthouse also has display cases, really fancy ones!Aluminum boxes with drawers.

JoeBoat · October 7, 2004 6:57AM

Why not ask Brian Cornwell this question here

http://www.iccs.ca/

JB

1jester · October 7, 2004 8:49PM

It's hard for me to believe that acetone wouldn't dissolve rubber too.

DeutscherGeist · October 10, 2004 12:42AM

You guys give me some good insights and I really appreciate it. It is good to have acetone around, so I will purchase the right kind soon.

Help! ICCS holder emergency!*plus acetone dip question*

Comments

Help! ICCS holder emergency!plus acetone dip question