Smart move neon. Ship it to ANACS for economy sevice. You'll get it back in a couple - 3 weeks. Cost you 10 bucks plus insurance. Now you got a starting bid. If the coin comes back real, put it up with a start of 2K. No one buys, ship it to me. Or skip eBay & just ship it, I'll pay. If you doubt, check me out. I'd buy the piece raw if I knew you or you had any creds. Problem is you're unknown. You could renege on return, claim I switched. While I don't mind having another S189 at a fair price, I do mind flushing 2K on a 50 buck fake.
Barry, nice 189 a bit better than usual surfs, decent color, a commercial VG. You really don't wanna know the EAC grade. Doesn't really matter anyway. Same price, different grading scale that's all. Tell you a secret, commercial market doesn't recognize S188 is far scarcer than 189. Sell your 189 & buy a smooth 188. If you can find a tan piece, even better, these are downright rare. Struck from the last of the shipment of sheet copper in March - April 1799. I own 1 of 4 pieces I've seen. Woulda owned 'em all, but others weren't for sale. BTW, I was the "evil elf" who convinced Bressett to remove the mintage for 99 from the Redbook back in the early 90s.
Boy, this sure turned out to be an interesting thread! I think neonleon is going to be very happy.
I, on the other hand, found out this wasn't a foolproof plan...
Mark: Hello, this is Mark. kranky: Hello, Mark, this is, um, Rittenhouse. M: Who? K: You know, Rittenhouse. Uh, I need, uh, twenty large to get a deal, OK? And, uh, yeah, I have a new address, OK, so let me give it to you - <click> K: Hello? Hello?
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Talked to ANACS Tuesday--economy is around 8 weeks at the present. My economy order was received November 20 so I'm anticipating mid-January, unless I get lucky. For Neon's 1799 I'd recommend their 5 day express service--$20.
Rittenhouse, ANACS called my coin VG details, net G-4. It's probably not still up, but Anaconda had a very funny description of one of his Large Cents satirizing EAC on what they would call it.
Did you happen to look at the EAC auction catalog last spring? EAC doesn't use EAC standards. EAC (strict) standards are buying and no interest standards only.
Everybody criticizes everyone else's grading. EAC is buy side, PCGS missed this one, SEGS is too loose, and on and on. It may surprise you that I (and many others) consider "grade" irrelevent. Personally I don't care if you call a coin AG, VF, CHBU++++- or MS945768.374969. I only care what the coin looks like and what the price is. As JJF once said, "Grade: an excuse for price."
Oh yeah, kranky - you got the phone call wrong. Mark & I are both Rittenhouse Society, known each other & been doin' business for like 20 years. The call would go:
Mark: Hello. Rittenhouse: Hey dude, its Craig. How you been? You gonna be at the show? Mark: Great. Yeah I'll be there, you bringing some stuff? How 'bout some cubans? Rittenhouse: Yeah, both. You buyin' the cognac? Mark: Deal. See you there.
Another call could go:
Eric (Newman): Hello. Rittenhouse: Hey Eric! It's Craig. Eric: Geez, I gotta get Caller ID. (inside joke)
Why don't you try a google on my name & see what turns up?
NCS for early copper authentication????? Who is their authenticator? >>
Abuell, they will slab coins as Genuine or you can have it graded and problems noted. I had a problem wreath cent slabbed by them. Much more attractive slab. As far as who authenticates.........I don't know. NGC?
Rittenhouse, I was just having some fun with the idea that someone might imagine they could call Mark or John and "pretend to be you". I think most people who have been around for a while know you! Sorry if my humor attempt didn't come out right.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
<< <i>Abuell, they will slab coins as Genuine or you can have it graded and problems noted. I had a problem wreath cent slabbed by them. Much more attractive slab. As far as who authenticates.........I don't know. NGC? >>
Just because they (or anyone else for that matter) will stuff a coin in a pretty plastic slab and call it genuine doesn't count for crap with me. For all I (or you) know they could have Bruno the drunken barkeep authenticating the thing. If you really want a '99 cent authenticated PM me and I can put you in contact with Doug Bird, Bill Noyes, Chris McCawley, Tom Reynolds, Jerry Bobbe, Bob Grellman or several other of the top tier large cent experts and their opinions you CAN take to the bank.
abuell Those you mention are considered the tops in large cents, I know. I was really surprised when I did a trade with one of them and found the coin I received was bent. The seller didn't notice it until I returned then he agreed. When I got my coin back it had a very small scratch it didn't have before. Nothing to do with ability to authenticate but does show even the experts aren't perfect.
I believe I once saw Bruno the drunken barkeep at a show. I don't think he's allowed in anymore.
as far as having an individual authenticate it, I agree, there are NUMEROUS people that know MUCH more than any of these grading companies on specific coins such as 1799 large cents.
and as far as ANACS V. NCS I really don't see a difference if you are into plastic other than a personal preference. If I am going to own a problem coin that is slabbed I prefer it to be in an NCS holder.
I always look at Tom Reynolds' copper at Baltimore. WOW he has Tons and tons of nice stuff and it is nearly all raw.
My point had nothing to do with anyone being perfect. My point was (and still is) that if I want a coin authenticated I want to obtain the opinion of someone who I know is an expert in that particular field, not some anonymous individual who just happens to be on the payroll of a company that has pretty holders.
Bird, Noyes, et al know me well also. In fact I could auth the 99 as easily as they. After all I did the die states for the Noyes DVD and proofread, wrote the How LCs Were Made chapter, and did the minting tech for the Breen LC book. Big deal. Problem is unless you're EAC or close to EAC you don't know these people. For selling on ebay this is like say Joe Schmoe from Kokomo (catchy, huh? and I made it up myself) sez this coin is real. ANACS, NGC, PCGS are all perfectly capable of authenticating. There's only one set of dies and it's not like gold where Omega's work was so good if he hadn't left the mark we wouldn't know.
goose3,
I've delt with Tom for years. Bought many coins from him & sold him many. EACers don't like slabs & can auth for themselves, hence the raw. As far as NCS vs. ANACS, irrelevent. The point is to auth the coin so those bidding know it's real. Hopefuly anyone with enuf bucks to bid this piece also has the brains to know what it's worth. But considering ebay, probably not - ebay motto "an uneducated consumer is our best customer". At least the "sucker" won't be buying a fake.
I always enjoy looking at Tom's coins and make a point to do so.
I once brokered a deal between he and another member and he was kind enough to give me a decent large cent for my son that I was also shopping for at the time for his "type" set.
Bird, Noyes, et al know me well also. In fact I could auth the 99 as easily as they. After all I did the die states for the Noyes DVD and proofread, wrote the How LCs Were Made chapter, and did the minting tech for the Breen LC book. Big deal. Problem is unless you're EAC or close to EAC you don't know these people. For selling on ebay this is like say Joe Schmoe from Kokomo (catchy, huh? and I made it up myself) sez this coin is real. ANACS, NGC, PCGS are all perfectly capable of authenticating. There's only one set of dies and it's not like gold where Omega's work was so good if he hadn't left the mark we wouldn't know. >>
Craig- I understand your point, but bear in mind that I did intentionally phrase my statement in the first person. Also it's a lot like the old 'Buy the book before you buy the coin' adage. If someone is going to buy a '99 cent they are well advised to gain the proper knowledge first and part of that includes learning whose knowledge is respected in the field of large cents. Alternatively if I wanted the latest and best knowledge on a Connecticut copper I wouldn't go to those on my list of large cent experts I'd go the expert on Connecticut coppers. And on and on.
conder, We were talking 1799 (S189) not 99/8 (NC1, S188) so my ref to one set of dies was for that.
abuell,
My point was that auth by one of "the experts" does not get what neon and the ebay buyer what they need - a way to assure the coin is genuine. Neon needs this to get max price. The buyer needs this to bid with some confidence. Neon could easily post that Tom, etc. told him the coin was real. He might even have a Grellman cert. What does that prove? These guys don't slab so coin could be switched and most ebayers can't call Tom et al. Neon & the potential buyers are back to the same problem. This is the one good thing about slabs. They do provide a hi level of assurance for both in-person and remote business when buyer and seller are not well known to each other.
While I might agree that someone who is interested in copper should contact "the experts" and learn, what about the key date collector? There are advanced collectors who buy only key dates (btw, if you're in it for the benjamins, this is a good strategy). I also know advanced type collectors who look for key & semi key ofr their sets. While these guys certainly own the major ref works, they aren't interested in "knowledge in depth" on every series, nor do they need it.
<< <i>All of the mystique and 'fun' has been drained from the this coin and auction... -Leon >>
Why are you sad? I would be happy that ANACS has graded it as genuine. Of course you can now get your $2000.00+ from Rittenhouse, who will be more than pleased.
I am not sad about the amount I will get, just that the state of collecting in general. Everything has to be slabbed and graded. It just takes the enjoyment out of it, for me anyway.
I bet I would have made close to the amount I will get now with the ungraded version of the auction.
Neon NOT everything has to be slabbed but when you are selling on ebay and have potentially thousands and thousands of people looking at an EXTREMELY scarce raw coin worth a few thousand dollars, many of those people will naturally assume it to be a fake and move on unless you are a well known large cent "expert" or a well known and respected ebay seller. Plain and simple, Raw+Ebay=usually risky
I buy key date coins and VERY rarely buy them raw. I buy them slabbed just so I have someone elses opinion that the coin is a no problem, Authentic, Coin!
I would be willing to bet you that your auction will now realize MORE THAN double what it would have as a raw coin.
Congrats neon; goose3 got it. Like I said earlier, you need the auth to get the max price on coins that are heavily counterfeited. And talk about downside protection, you got a 2K base from me. Use it as a starting bid or reserve. If it don't sell, just ship it.
Not as many risk takers as you may think for that money... and I don't think the refund policy would have a great impact... I wouldn't want to part with $1500 and then have the hassle of getting it back...
<< <i>All of the mystique and 'fun' has been drained from the this coin and auction... >>
Leon, You seem to have a different concept of fun and mystique than the rest of us. Would you buy a Rolex or designer purse from a "vendor" on a street corner in NYC? Lots of fun and mystique in that, isn't there?
Leon: of all the comments/suggestions you've received here (and I'm amazed that everyone responds in such a timely/positive manner to these threads), I agree that you should send the coin to ANACS for certification & grading. I also think PCGS/NGC misses the boat with body-bags. Furthermore, if this coin is counterfeit, that certainly doesn't cast aspersions on your grandfather. Just because you may have a counterfeit coin in your possession doesn't mean you are dishonest. Maybe the person who sold/gave it to you is the dishonest one...or the person who sold/gave it to him.
BTW...the coin looks genuine to me IMHO
I'm the Proud recipient of a genuine "you suck" award dated 1/24/05. I was accepted into the "Circle of Trust" on 3/9/09.
<< <i>I am a Business Administration major, with plans to be a therapeutic masseuse and start a Massage Parlor/Spa with nice tropical environment >>
Thanks Joe, that is just tooooo funny. ROTFLMAO.
Obviously from the wrong side of the family. You can choose your friends, but you can't choose you relatives.
neon, sorry I don't bid on ebay; at least on coins. Most copper folks & advanced collectors know who I am so putting in a bid is a waste of time. Besides, I really don't need yet another S189. But if it don't hit 2K, the min. offer still holds; cancel the auction, ship it to me & we'll negotiate a fair price once i see it in the coin. You did the right thing and took the advice, now reap the profits. (Personally I woulda put a 2.7K reserve on this).
I never put a reserve on auctions. Top bidder gets it.
Let me get this straight. If you put a bid on a coin on eBay, these copper collectors will see your user id and outbid you because they figure you know what you are talking about.
hmmmm...
Can you do me a favor, bid $5000 on it.
If no one outbids you, I will send it to you and we can negotiate a fairer price.
Can you do me a favor, bid $5000 on it. If no one outbids you, I will send it to you and we can negotiate a fairer price. >>
Nope that's shill; you shouldn't even suggest that jokingly.
I do wish you luck; hope the coin hits 2.7K. From the scan I *think* it's worth it.....
BUT, you can't get a real good feel for what a coin looks like from a computer image. Just take a look at the "Guess the Grade" threads in this forum. You'll get guesses of AU55 to MS68. From just a quick SWAG on my part, fewer that 10% "guess" the right grade. And even then how much of that was pure luck? I guessed the grade on your coin as G6 - VG8. Pretty darn close. But, I've seen several hundred 99s. Still, the coin could look much different in person.
Add in the prob of me being fairly well know & others bidding off me = I don't bid real money on ebay. Actually I don't bid at all anymore and haven't for at least 3 years (I do sell tho' so maybe that should give y'all a hint). Much easier for me to buy at live auctions where I can see what I'm getting and only competing against dealers or top collectors - I can get a sense where they'll stop.
Comments
Barry, nice 189 a bit better than usual surfs, decent color, a commercial VG. You really don't wanna know the EAC grade. Doesn't really matter anyway. Same price, different grading scale that's all. Tell you a secret, commercial market doesn't recognize S188 is far scarcer than 189. Sell your 189 & buy a smooth 188. If you can find a tan piece, even better, these are downright rare. Struck from the last of the shipment of sheet copper in March - April 1799. I own 1 of 4 pieces I've seen. Woulda owned 'em all, but others weren't for sale. BTW, I was the "evil elf" who convinced Bressett to remove the mintage for 99 from the Redbook back in the early 90s.
I, on the other hand, found out this wasn't a foolproof plan...
Mark: Hello, this is Mark.
kranky: Hello, Mark, this is, um, Rittenhouse.
M: Who?
K: You know, Rittenhouse. Uh, I need, uh, twenty large to get a deal, OK? And, uh, yeah, I have a new address, OK, so let me give it to you -
<click>
K: Hello? Hello?
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
ANACS called my coin VG details, net G-4. It's probably not still up, but Anaconda had a very funny description of one of his Large Cents satirizing EAC on what they would call it.
<< <i>SCrew ANACS. Use NCS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>
NCS for early copper authentication????? Who is their authenticator?
Everybody criticizes everyone else's grading. EAC is buy side, PCGS missed this one, SEGS is too loose, and on and on. It may surprise you that I (and many others) consider "grade" irrelevent. Personally I don't care if you call a coin AG, VF, CHBU++++- or MS945768.374969. I only care what the coin looks like and what the price is. As JJF once said, "Grade: an excuse for price."
Oh yeah, kranky - you got the phone call wrong. Mark & I are both Rittenhouse Society, known each other & been doin' business for like 20 years. The call would go:
Mark: Hello.
Rittenhouse: Hey dude, its Craig. How you been? You gonna be at the show?
Mark: Great. Yeah I'll be there, you bringing some stuff? How 'bout some cubans?
Rittenhouse: Yeah, both. You buyin' the cognac?
Mark: Deal. See you there.
Another call could go:
Eric (Newman): Hello.
Rittenhouse: Hey Eric! It's Craig.
Eric: Geez, I gotta get Caller ID. (inside joke)
Why don't you try a google on my name & see what turns up?
<< <i>
<< <i>SCrew ANACS. Use NCS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>
NCS for early copper authentication????? Who is their authenticator? >>
Abuell, they will slab coins as Genuine or you can have it graded and problems noted. I had a problem wreath cent slabbed by them. Much more attractive slab. As far as who authenticates.........I don't know. NGC?
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
<< <i>Abuell, they will slab coins as Genuine or you can have it graded and problems noted. I had a problem wreath cent slabbed by them. Much more attractive slab. As far as who authenticates.........I don't know. NGC? >>
Just because they (or anyone else for that matter) will stuff a coin in a pretty plastic slab and call it genuine doesn't count for crap with me. For all I (or you) know they could have Bruno the drunken barkeep authenticating the thing. If you really want a '99 cent authenticated PM me and I can put you in contact with Doug Bird, Bill Noyes, Chris McCawley, Tom Reynolds, Jerry Bobbe, Bob Grellman or several other of the top tier large cent experts and their opinions you CAN take to the bank.
Those you mention are considered the tops in large cents, I know. I was really surprised when I did a trade with one of them and found the coin I received was bent. The seller didn't notice it until I returned then he agreed. When I got my coin back it had a very small scratch it didn't have before. Nothing to do with ability to authenticate but does show even the experts aren't perfect.
as far as having an individual authenticate it, I agree, there are NUMEROUS people that know MUCH more than any of these grading companies on specific coins such as 1799 large cents.
and as far as ANACS V. NCS I really don't see a difference if you are into plastic other than a personal preference. If I am going to own a problem coin that is slabbed I prefer it to be in an NCS holder.
I always look at Tom Reynolds' copper at Baltimore. WOW he has Tons and tons of nice stuff and it is nearly all raw.
<< <i>I can put you in contact with Doug Bird >>
He was in my class at the ANA Summer Seminar!
Bird, Noyes, et al know me well also. In fact I could auth the 99 as easily as they. After all I did the die states for the Noyes DVD and proofread, wrote the How LCs Were Made chapter, and did the minting tech for the Breen LC book. Big deal. Problem is unless you're EAC or close to EAC you don't know these people. For selling on ebay this is like say Joe Schmoe from Kokomo (catchy, huh? and I made it up myself) sez this coin is real. ANACS, NGC, PCGS are all perfectly capable of authenticating. There's only one set of dies and it's not like gold where Omega's work was so good if he hadn't left the mark we wouldn't know.
goose3,
I've delt with Tom for years. Bought many coins from him & sold him many. EACers don't like slabs & can auth for themselves, hence the raw. As far as NCS vs. ANACS, irrelevent. The point is to auth the coin so those bidding know it's real. Hopefuly anyone with enuf bucks to bid this piece also has the brains to know what it's worth. But considering ebay, probably not - ebay motto "an uneducated consumer is our best customer". At least the "sucker" won't be buying a fake.
I once brokered a deal between he and another member and he was kind enough to give me a decent large cent for my son that I was also shopping for at the time for his "type" set.
Nice guy.
<< <i>abuell,
Bird, Noyes, et al know me well also. In fact I could auth the 99 as easily as they. After all I did the die states for the Noyes DVD and proofread, wrote the How LCs Were Made chapter, and did the minting tech for the Breen LC book. Big deal. Problem is unless you're EAC or close to EAC you don't know these people. For selling on ebay this is like say Joe Schmoe from Kokomo (catchy, huh? and I made it up myself) sez this coin is real. ANACS, NGC, PCGS are all perfectly capable of authenticating. There's only one set of dies and it's not like gold where Omega's work was so good if he hadn't left the mark we wouldn't know. >>
Craig- I understand your point, but bear in mind that I did intentionally phrase my statement in the first person. Also it's a lot like the old 'Buy the book before you buy the coin' adage. If someone is going to buy a '99 cent they are well advised to gain the proper knowledge first and part of that includes learning whose knowledge is respected in the field of large cents. Alternatively if I wanted the latest and best knowledge on a Connecticut copper I wouldn't go to those on my list of large cent experts I'd go the expert on Connecticut coppers. And on and on.
<< <i>There's only one set of dies >>
?? Two obverses, three reverses, Three die varieties NC-1 S-188 and S-189. If you mean one set of dies for ths variety, sure.
abuell,
My point was that auth by one of "the experts" does not get what neon and the ebay buyer what they need - a way to assure the coin is genuine. Neon needs this to get max price. The buyer needs this to bid with some confidence. Neon could easily post that Tom, etc. told him the coin was real. He might even have a Grellman cert. What does that prove? These guys don't slab so coin could be switched and most ebayers can't call Tom et al. Neon & the potential buyers are back to the same problem. This is the one good thing about slabs. They do provide a hi level of assurance for both in-person and remote business when buyer and seller are not well known to each other.
While I might agree that someone who is interested in copper should contact "the experts" and learn, what about the key date collector? There are advanced collectors who buy only key dates (btw, if you're in it for the benjamins, this is a good strategy). I also know advanced type collectors who look for key & semi key ofr their sets. While these guys certainly own the major ref works, they aren't interested in "knowledge in depth" on every series, nor do they need it.
The 1799 Large Cent has been authenticated and graded by ANACS...
VF Details
Net VG 8
I will be relisting the cold, slabbed version of the auction on Wednesday night for anyone interested.
-Leon
<< <i>All of the mystique and 'fun' has been drained from the this coin and auction... -Leon >>
Why are you sad? I would be happy that ANACS has graded it as genuine. Of course you can now get your $2000.00+ from Rittenhouse, who will be more than pleased.
Congratulations
Tom
<< <i>All of the mystique and 'fun' has been drained from the this coin and auction...
The 1799 Large Cent has been authenticated and graded by ANACS...
VF Details
Net VG 8
I will be relisting the cold, slabbed version of the auction on Wednesday night for anyone interested.
-Leon >>
Congrats. You will surely realize MUCH more than 1,000.00 for it now!!!!!!!!
I bet I would have made close to the amount I will get now with the ungraded version of the auction.
-Leon
Thanks for the congrats.
NOT everything has to be slabbed but when you are selling on ebay and have potentially thousands and thousands of people looking at an EXTREMELY scarce raw coin worth a few thousand dollars, many of those people will naturally assume it to be a fake and move on unless you are a well known large cent "expert" or a well known and respected ebay seller. Plain and simple, Raw+Ebay=usually risky
I buy key date coins and VERY rarely buy them raw. I buy them slabbed just so I have someone elses opinion that the coin is a no problem, Authentic, Coin!
I would be willing to bet you that your auction will now realize MORE THAN double what it would have as a raw coin.
It's a great coin!
Especially because there was a refund policy.
I completely understand what you are saying, though. I am increasing the market for the coin by having it authenticated.
<< <i>Plenty of risk takers out there though.
Especially because there was a refund policy. >>
Not as many risk takers as you may think for that money... and I don't think the refund policy would have a great impact... I wouldn't want to part with $1500 and then have the hassle of getting it back...
<< <i>All of the mystique and 'fun' has been drained from the this coin and auction...
Leon,
You seem to have a different concept of fun and mystique than the rest of us.
Would you buy a Rolex or designer purse from a "vendor" on a street corner in NYC? Lots of fun and mystique in that, isn't there?
Craig Rittenhouse
Joe.
1799 Large Cent
Rittenhouse, I will look for your $2000 bid
Thanks to everyone for their input on this thread.
-Leon
Is that because it's entombed in plastic?
Joe.
BTW...the coin looks genuine to me IMHO
Comments about my grandfather's character in previous posts were really in jest.
-Leon
I predict a hammer price of 3K+ (and if it isn't it was ripped)
<< <i>If it don't sell, just ship it.
Craig Rittenhouse
Joe.
<< <i>I am a Business Administration major, with plans to be a therapeutic masseuse and start a Massage Parlor/Spa with nice tropical environment >>
Thanks Joe, that is just tooooo funny. ROTFLMAO.
Obviously from the wrong side of the family. You can choose your friends, but you can't choose you relatives.
neon, sorry I don't bid on ebay; at least on coins. Most copper folks & advanced collectors know who I am so putting in a bid is a waste of time. Besides, I really don't need yet another S189. But if it don't hit 2K, the min. offer still holds; cancel the auction, ship it to me & we'll negotiate a fair price once i see it in the coin. You did the right thing and took the advice, now reap the profits. (Personally I woulda put a 2.7K reserve on this).
Let me get this straight. If you put a bid on a coin on eBay, these copper collectors will see your user id and outbid you because they figure you know what you are talking about.
hmmmm...
Can you do me a favor, bid $5000 on it.
If no one outbids you, I will send it to you and we can negotiate a fairer price.
<< <i>hmmmm...
Can you do me a favor, bid $5000 on it. If no one outbids you, I will send it to you and we can negotiate a fairer price.
Nope that's shill; you shouldn't even suggest that jokingly.
I do wish you luck; hope the coin hits 2.7K. From the scan I *think* it's worth it.....
BUT, you can't get a real good feel for what a coin looks like from a computer image. Just take a look at the "Guess the Grade" threads in this forum. You'll get guesses of AU55 to MS68. From just a quick SWAG on my part, fewer that 10% "guess" the right grade. And even then how much of that was pure luck? I guessed the grade on your coin as G6 - VG8. Pretty darn close. But, I've seen several hundred 99s. Still, the coin could look much different in person.
Add in the prob of me being fairly well know & others bidding off me = I don't bid real money on ebay. Actually I don't bid at all anymore and haven't for at least 3 years (I do sell tho' so maybe that should give y'all a hint). Much easier for me to buy at live auctions where I can see what I'm getting and only competing against dealers or top collectors - I can get a sense where they'll stop.
Anyway, good luck and you still got a base.