<< <i>Again, these coins tend to go into circulation after they are checked and only a small percentage of coins in circulation were checked before being spent. >>
I give up! I surrender!
Every state quarter is going become a major rarity in all levels of Mint State and even the high circulated grades because so many have been spent.
Come on Clad! Give it a rest! Your are staring to embarrass yourself.
I've sat a my bourse table month after month and watched guys pay over face value of each of the state quarters by the roll as they were released. What do you think these guys are doing? Paying $12.50 a roll and then spending the coins at face value?
Business stike state quarters are being saved by the millions. There are millions more (probably better quality pieces) in Mint Sets. There will always be a demand for them, but anyone who says that they are going to be in short supply during our lifetimes is either totally illogical or trying sell somebody the Brooklyn Bridge.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
The states quarters are really a very small part of the modern markets in numbers. Indeed, as has been pointed out many times these coins are really more ultramoderns than moderns because people started saving coins from circulation again in 1999. This would put them outside of the definition entirely. This is not to say that there's anything wrong with collecting states quarter, just that the coins have been saved by many people.
Go back and read the thread about the lack of classic bashing and you might be able to understand the root of the problem. Everybody believes that there is real value and merit in collecting classics so people don't bash them. But you obviously see no value in the later date coins. So go ahead and bash high grades or moderns or the people who love them but when you make statements which are false or illog- ical about them then you can expect me to point them out.
You might consider learning enough about them that you don't make incorrect statements.
Of course, if you actually knew anything about them or even consulted the Red Book before you posted then you might see just a little less reason to bash them.
Everybody believes that there is real value and merit in collecting classics so people don't bash them. But you obviously see no value in the later date coins.
I don't think anyone says modern coins have NO value. They just don't have High value
Condor, the question should be: What is a high priced, low grade non-error(or major variety) modern? A 1969-S DDO is high priced in any grade (if you can ever find one). Now a 1969-S? I have rolls of them looking for a DDO.
Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
All of the modern rarities would fit into this category. Some of these are also high grade but the low grade coins also bring large premiums. Many of the major rarities rarely trade because they don't bring nearly the kind of money that the classic rarities do. A low grade proof 75 dime recently traded at $40,000 I believe. There are fewer than fifteen known of this coin. BM sold an impaired proof 40% '76 half not too long back for $80,000. I heard of a VG '82 nmm dime going for $75. As time goes on there will be more recognized rarities and these will become more actively traded.
Any non-error high priced moderns? My dealer was recently outbid on a raw Morgan (non-error) when they bid over $400,000. What is your interpretation of this? (it is now a pop 2 highest graded coin, not a wondercoin bluesheet special 1886-O, which only one exists) Which proof 75 dime is worth so much? Can't be like the high grade ones in my 10 proof sets. 15 known, certainly something for the masses to look to collect.
I would much prefer the PCGS g-6 barber quarter my dealer just had graded to any modern standard issue coin you have in your collection.
Better keep up with the fabricated statistics. I do have one question for you. You always mention the 1983 quarter. Where did the tens of thousands of complete MS quarter sets get their 1983 quarters? They have been selling them for almost 20 years. You can believe that many bags were saved, maybe not millions, but certainly thousands of the date. But hey, you will come up with a phony figure to back up your equally phony claims. Lord knows you certainly must have looked at such a large percentage of everything you would know the surviving population of just about anything. You are almost incentive enough to quit collecting, certainly wouldn't want to look at anything you believe in.
Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
Bill, what I find the most interesting is those who disagree with you always claim "you are a dealer of classics". I have never seen you sell a coin on these forums. But....those who disagree with you are always selling their coins on this forum. Maybe cladking et all should look at the crap they are spewing before letting their fingers go to work making them looking hypocritical.
Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
Dang Dbldie55, I thought you weren't talking to me. If I insulted you in the past it was nearly inadvertant.
There are fewer than 15 known 1975 proof dimes known without a mintmark. Even the low grade ones sell for substantial sums. Most price guides don't list them because of their rarity.
It seems highly unlikely that tens of thousands of clad quarter sets have been sold over the years. While the number is substantial it's likely in the fifteen to wentyfive thousand range. If you actually look at these sets you'll see that significant numbers of them have an AU for the '82 and '83 coins. I've always estimated that about 80,000 of the '83-P exists in unc and there are probably nearly the same number of sliders.
Wondercoin, How can you absolutely tell if a lincoln roll is fresh, original. There must be a way if dealers are willing to pay 1000% sheet. Thanks Steve
"If people would rather bash high grade coins rather than moderns then have at it."
You continue to equate the disregard for tremendous one point grade rarity premiums with the bashing of moderns. That really isn't the point. It's not even a matter of bashing high grade coins. I don't think anyone on the forum has claimed that 20x ~ 100x one point grade premiums are sensible for a classic coin or an MS-63 versus and MS-64 (versus a PR-69 and PR-70).
If you want to argue the justification for those premiums try to separate it from the issue of modern versus classic. The only connection between those arguments is that you typically see the types of premiums discussed more often with moderns versus classics but the focus of the discussion isn't modern versus classic but a 100x premium based on ".." for any coin.
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
A coin is "worth" whatever a collector is willing to pay. Period. We are after all collectors and not investors. If a collector is willing to pay 40k+ for a top pop modern, then that coin is worth it. In the years to come can he/she sell it at a profit or even break even? Doesn't matter. The collector had it when he wanted it and it was worth it to him/her. Why does anyone care what others pay for their coins??????
"Wondercoin, How can you absolutely tell if a lincoln roll is fresh, original. There must be a way if dealers are willing to pay 1000% sheet. Thanks Steve"
Steve: In this case the way I understand it, the rolls were removed from the bags and/or paper/aluminum wrappers by the Goldbergs and tubed up for dealers to inspect. I spent a full day in Goldberg's office personally inspecting the open rolls they prepared for the auction and others did the same. They were the "real deal". I could be wrong, but I believe the 1940(p) in PCGS-MS68RD (you know the alleged $22k coin) may have come from one of these rolls (and darn, I was likely the underbidder on that lot!)
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Seems to me that when someone pays 100x the MS67 price for an MS68 coin, it makes the solid MS67s a great value for collectors.
I just wonder whether the people paying those 100x multiples are trying to inflate the value of other top pop coins they own in the series. So pay $20K for one date in the series and if the value of each other top pop you own in the series inflates a few grand (even if not to the $20K level), you have increased the value of your set considerably, especially in a long series.
"A coin is "worth" whatever a collector is willing to pay."
I didn't think the discussion is so much about worth. To me it's more a discussion about the process and ingredients used in arriving at you opinion of worth (value assessment).
The longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice is it possible for an empire to rise without His aid? Benjamin Franklin
Comments
<< <i>Again, these coins tend to go into circulation after they are checked and
only a small percentage of coins in circulation were checked before being
spent.
>>
I give up! I surrender!
Every state quarter is going become a major rarity in all levels of Mint State and even the high circulated grades because so many have been spent.
Come on Clad! Give it a rest!
I've sat a my bourse table month after month and watched guys pay over face value of each of the state quarters by the roll as they were released. What do you think these guys are doing? Paying $12.50 a roll and then spending the coins at face value?
Business stike state quarters are being saved by the millions. There are millions more (probably better quality pieces) in Mint Sets. There will always be a demand for them, but anyone who says that they are going to be in short supply during our lifetimes is either totally illogical
of the modern markets in numbers. Indeed, as has been pointed out many times
these coins are really more ultramoderns than moderns
because people started saving coins from
circulation again in 1999. This would put them outside of the definition entirely.
This is not to say that there's anything wrong with collecting states quarter, just
that the coins have been saved by many people.
Go back and read the thread about the lack of classic bashing and you might be
able to understand the root of the problem. Everybody believes that there is real
value and merit in collecting classics so people don't bash them. But you obviously
see no value in the later date coins. So go ahead and bash high grades or moderns
or the people who love them but when you make statements which are false or illog-
ical about them then you can expect me to point them out.
You might consider learning enough about them that you don't make incorrect statements.
Of course, if you actually knew anything about them or even consulted the Red Book before
you posted then you might see just a little less reason to bash them.
<< <i>these coins are really more ultramoderns than moderns >>
Ultra moderns ...... hmmmmm............
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
value and merit in collecting classics so people don't bash them. But you obviously
see no value in the later date coins.
I don't think anyone says modern coins have NO value. They just don't have High value
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>
I don't think anyone says modern coins have NO value. They just don't have High value >>
You and I believe this, it would be interesting to hear the president's take on this.
Three to one odds says he can't answer it without using the phrase "face value".
<< <i>It should also be remembered that all high PRICED moderns are NOT high PRICED by virtue of their being high grade. >>
What's a high priced low grade modern?
I'll take the 1972 Doubled Die Obverse, Die1 in VF20 for a $100.00
LOL
Brian
<< <i>I don't think anyone says modern coins have NO value. They just don't have High value >>
Couldn't agree more
“It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.” Mark Twain
Newmismatist
<< <i>
What's a high priced low grade modern? >>
All of the modern rarities would fit into this category. Some of these are also high grade
but the low grade coins also bring large premiums. Many of the major rarities rarely trade
because they don't bring nearly the kind of money that the classic rarities do. A low grade
proof 75 dime recently traded at $40,000 I believe. There are fewer than fifteen known
of this coin. BM sold an impaired proof 40% '76 half not too long back for $80,000. I heard
of a VG '82 nmm dime going for $75. As time goes on there will be more recognized rarities
and these will become more actively traded.
I would much prefer the PCGS g-6 barber quarter my dealer just had graded to any modern standard issue coin you have in your collection.
Better keep up with the fabricated statistics. I do have one question for you. You always mention the 1983 quarter. Where did the tens of thousands of complete MS quarter sets get their 1983 quarters? They have been selling them for almost 20 years. You can believe that many bags were saved, maybe not millions, but certainly thousands of the date. But hey, you will come up with a phony figure to back up your equally phony claims. Lord knows you certainly must have looked at such a large percentage of everything you would know the surviving population of just about anything. You are almost incentive enough to quit collecting, certainly wouldn't want to look at anything you believe in.
Not being part of the ongoing argument, my interpretation is that your dealer also believes in condition rarity.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
in the past it was nearly inadvertant.
There are fewer than 15 known 1975 proof dimes known without a mintmark. Even the
low grade ones sell for substantial sums. Most price guides don't list them because of
their rarity.
It seems highly unlikely that tens of thousands of clad quarter sets have been sold over
the years. While the number is substantial it's likely in the fifteen to wentyfive thousand range.
If you actually look at these sets you'll see that significant numbers of them have an AU for
the '82 and '83 coins. I've always estimated that about 80,000 of the '83-P exists in unc
and there are probably nearly the same number of sliders.
"If people would rather bash high grade coins rather than moderns then have at it."
You continue to equate the disregard for tremendous one point grade rarity premiums with the bashing of moderns. That really isn't the point. It's not even a matter of bashing high grade coins. I don't think anyone on the forum has claimed that 20x ~ 100x one point grade premiums are sensible for a classic coin or an MS-63 versus and MS-64 (versus a PR-69 and PR-70).
If you want to argue the justification for those premiums try to separate it from the issue of modern versus classic. The only connection between those arguments is that you typically see the types of premiums discussed more often with moderns versus classics but the focus of the discussion isn't modern versus classic but a 100x premium based on ".." for any coin.
Steve: In this case the way I understand it, the rolls were removed from the bags and/or paper/aluminum wrappers by the Goldbergs and tubed up for dealers to inspect. I spent a full day in Goldberg's office personally inspecting the open rolls they prepared for the auction and others did the same. They were the "real deal". I could be wrong, but I believe the 1940(p) in PCGS-MS68RD (you know the alleged $22k coin) may have come from one of these rolls (and darn, I was likely the underbidder on that lot!)
Wondercoin
I just wonder whether the people paying those 100x multiples are trying to inflate the value of other top pop coins they own in the series. So pay $20K for one date in the series and if the value of each other top pop you own in the series inflates a few grand (even if not to the $20K level), you have increased the value of your set considerably, especially in a long series.
CG
"A coin is "worth" whatever a collector is willing to pay."
I didn't think the discussion is so much about worth. To me it's more a discussion about the process and ingredients used in arriving at you opinion of worth (value assessment).