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Why do proof coins haze?

I have read that modern proof coins have a tendency to haze in albums.

Assume two coins are in the same album, side by side, one is uncirculated and the other is proof. Both coins are in the same environment and both have the same composition. If the proof coin develops a haze, shouldn't the uncirculated coin also haze? I would expect both to haze, correct? Is the hazing just more noticeable on the proof coin?
Bill

Comments

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,936 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It is probably just more noticable on the proofs because of the mirrored fields. It is most likely caused by chemicals in either the paper, glue, plastic slides or a combination of the three. It is always possible the environment in which the album is stored contributes to the problem as well. I recently started collecting modern commem proofs and noticed the haze problem on several of the coins that were in the original govt. packaging. I sent all of them in for slabbing to avoid future hazing problems.
    All glory is fleeting.
  • DeutscherGeistDeutscherGeist Posts: 2,990 ✭✭✭✭

    @291fifth said:
    It is probably just more noticable on the proofs because of the mirrored fields. It is most likely caused by chemicals in either the paper, glue, plastic slides or a combination of the three. It is always possible the environment in which the album is stored contributes to the problem as well. I recently started collecting modern commem proofs and noticed the haze problem on several of the coins that were in the original govt. packaging. I sent all of them in for slabbing to avoid future hazing problems.

    What kinds of grades did you get? I am curious about how much hazing can affect grades and prices.

    "So many of our DREAMS at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we SUMMON THE WILL they soon become INEVITABLE "- Christopher Reeve

    BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 33,479 ✭✭✭✭✭

    The planchet cleaning agents the mint uses is sometimes the cause. The packaging or storage device can be the other. Most original surface Proof coins from 1936 to 1942 are hazy from the celluloid sleeves the mint used to package them combined with long term storage.

    Many 40% Silver Ike dollars have haze. Given the time frame, I would that it’s the packaging. The black insert has released some sort of gas over time. There are also certain years of Proof sets that have the same problem.

    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • MaywoodMaywood Posts: 1,887 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Proof coins from the early 1960's, especially Nickels and especially 1962, are quite prone to colorful haze. During that time the Mint was experimenting with different planchet rinses as @BillJones pointed out. The residue still left on the coins after striking quite likely interacted with the plio-film and/or the coin's alloy. My personal thoughts are that the coins are reacting with the various plastics, whether that's the Mint/Proof packaging, film in 2x2 holders or the slides of albums.

  • 291fifth291fifth Posts: 23,936 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @DeutscherGeist said:

    @291fifth said:
    It is probably just more noticable on the proofs because of the mirrored fields. It is most likely caused by chemicals in either the paper, glue, plastic slides or a combination of the three. It is always possible the environment in which the album is stored contributes to the problem as well. I recently started collecting modern commem proofs and noticed the haze problem on several of the coins that were in the original govt. packaging. I sent all of them in for slabbing to avoid future hazing problems.

    What kinds of grades did you get? I am curious about how much hazing can affect grades and prices.

    This was a post from almost 20 years ago. The coins, and my memory of them are long gone.

    All glory is fleeting.
  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have always felt that the mirror fields of proof coins displayed the haze that all the coins in similar packaging (but not proof) acquire, but not visible due to the less than 'mirror like' fields. Cheers, RickO

  • TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 43,835 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Environmental damage caused by improper storage. ( that's my view)

  • Mr_SpudMr_Spud Posts: 4,435 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sometimes the mirrors haze on proofs and if the same haze was on a regular coin it would look toned instead of hazy. It’s a similar film growing on the surface of the coin, just it looks different. Here’s an example where the mirrors look hazy and the frosted devices look toned. Focus on the reverse, the Olympic flames are toned purplish but the same thin film on the mirrors makes it look like whitish haze

    Mr_Spud

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 7,613 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited February 17, 2023 8:05AM

    Heat, humidity, reaction to atmosphere.

    So Cali Area - Coins & Currency
  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 45,400 ✭✭✭✭✭

    What's the best way to remove haze from silver proofs? I read somewhere several years ago that a dip in ammonia will remove haze. I never tried it so I won't recommend it.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 31,850 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PerryHall said:
    What's the best way to remove haze from silver proofs? I read somewhere several years ago that a dip in ammonia will remove haze. I never tried it so I won't recommend it.

    It really depends on the nature of the haze. Sometimes the haze is early stages of normal toning. Other times, the haze appears to be a separate film probably due to volatile chemicals in the plastic. The latter will probably come off with something like ammonia. The former needs dip.

  • ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,322 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @PerryHall said:
    What's the best way to remove haze from silver proofs? I read somewhere several years ago that a dip in ammonia will remove haze. I never tried it so I won't recommend it.

    It really depends on the nature of the haze. Sometimes the haze is early stages of normal toning. Other times, the haze appears to be a separate film probably due to volatile chemicals in the plastic. The latter will probably come off with something like ammonia. The former needs dip.

    In my experience MS70 does very well in removing haze from silver proofs. If you don't have a bottle I would suggest picking one up, it's not expensive.
    I am not sure what causes haze but I would guess that a multitude of things could, ranging from the original packaging, albums, plastic holders, smoke, fabrics, other chemicals in the air, etc...

    Collector, occasional seller

  • stawickstawick Posts: 469 ✭✭✭✭

    @Mr_Spud said:
    Sometimes the mirrors haze on proofs and if the same haze was on a regular coin it would look toned instead of hazy. It’s a similar film growing on the surface of the coin, just it looks different. Here’s an example where the mirrors look hazy and the frosted devices look toned. Focus on the reverse, the Olympic flames are toned purplish but the same thin film on the mirrors makes it look like whitish haze

    I have that coin in Proof 69 w/o the toning / haze. B)
    But I recall my disappointment when I sent my 2000 4-coin AGE set. They were held in a safe most of their lives - in their air-tites, and about 20 years later I sent them in for grading. I coulda swore they had no hazing - I think I woulda saw that before sending them in. I was surprised to see some hazing in the TVs; a bit on the 1 oz, but more so on the 1/4 oz. It might've happened, or enhanced, after they were broke out of the air-tites, once O2 hit them.

  • Mr_SpudMr_Spud Posts: 4,435 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @stawick that would be terrible to see the haze in the TrueView when it wasn’t on the raw coin you sent in. You’d have to crack it out to remove the haze, very frustrating. I wonder if some kind of preventative rinse in acetone or something similar before submitting it might help. I vaguely remember Russ used to say he rinsed off his proofs before sending them in to prevent problems like milk spots.

    Mr_Spud

  • DeutscherGeistDeutscherGeist Posts: 2,990 ✭✭✭✭

    It's never wrong to dip gold or silver in acetone before putting them in proper storage, but acetone only rinses off impurities, which is useful in it's own right, but it does nothing against environmental toning.

    Hazing, to me, just does not look nice on a proof coin. If it is cause by a layer of impurities, acetone can help, but if it's just environmental, acetone will not do anything. At least it cleanses the coin of the impurities we do not see. So if an acetone dip does not improve eye appeal, at least you can store the coin properly in a capsule or other storage device.

    I am aware of people using MS70, but that does not quite fall under conservation. If I understood correctly, it can be used on BU or Proof coins that have all their luster as a short dip in MS70 removes the very surface layer of toning with the hope that the toning did not penetrate the whole thin outer layer of the coin. Acetone does not remove any part of the coin, just foreign material that is on there.

    "So many of our DREAMS at first seem impossible, then they seem improbable, and then, when we SUMMON THE WILL they soon become INEVITABLE "- Christopher Reeve

    BST: Tennessebanker, Downtown1974, LarkinCollector, nendee

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