Are coin shops on the verge of extinction?

MrEureka · July 22, 2003 1:02AM

Are coin shops on the verge of extinction? It seems like we're on that path. Is there any hope?

baccaruda · July 22, 2003 1:08AM

Definitely not. at least I hope not.

NumisEd · July 22, 2003 1:35AM

YES.

Mainly because most collectors are cheap ba$tards that complain about everything and prance around with their Greysheet and say "oh, look at me...I am a dealer wannabe....love me, kiss me, mmmm". Then they plop down at a dealer's counter and take up 2 hours of the dealer's time and all for what??? ............to purchase a VG barber half for 5% back of bid. I blame this type of loser collector for the looming extinction of coin shops. They have ruined it for the collectors, such as myself, who are not afraid to pay a retail price for a nice coin and who understands that a dealer's time is important. Because these vest pocket dealer wannabes, real dealers have to play games just in order to survive. Games like submitting the same coin 10 times, over grading coins, etc. It all just plain sucks.

bushmaster8 · July 22, 2003 1:47AM

I blame the demise of the local coin shop on 2 factors:

1) the internet (ebay in particular)

2) the fact that soo many (but not all) dealers working shops prey on the unwitting/ignorant public.
i.e.- the old woman walks into the shop with a pikes peak mormon gold coin and the dealer buys it for $100!

baccaruda · July 22, 2003 1:56AM

Ed, you're always riding the fence. Tell us what you REALLY think and quit being so coy.

ARCO · July 22, 2003 1:59AM

I have found excellent material at my local coin shops! There are two in Salt Lake City in particular that bone up on Barbers frequently. They have been around for decades and do very well. The larger one carries more key dates than can be found on Ebay in a year. Since I have cleaned them out, I have to wait another year for them to restock!

Tyler

ursabear · July 22, 2003 2:01AM

I think that a local, well-run coin shop will not go out of business provided that they extend themselves to the internet as well.

The answer seems similarly applicable to antique shops and old-fashioned book shops.

Julian · July 22, 2003 2:08AM

I certainly hope not, as I am working 24/7 to make my store work. It is tough in a store, though.

Mostly the public wants gift or novelty items and wants to sell coins. There is a definite value in serving the general public.

Collectors are different than the general public.

Some are serious and understand the value of having a local place to look and purchase. These people add to the value of having a store.

Some only wish to make wholesale purchases and do not wish to support a local business. A successful coin store cannot be kept alive with only wholesale purchasers.

cointagious · July 22, 2003 2:09AM

<< <i>2) the fact that soo many (but not all) dealers working shops prey on the unwitting/ignorant public. i.e.- the old woman walks into the shop with a pikes peak mormon gold coin and the dealer buys it for $100! >>

i'm a partner in a coin shop and i can tell you that that is not a reality. i have too many competitors in my metro area to pull that kind of thing on anyone not to mention that it is downright dirty business. i understand you as being a generalization but i doubt many of my competitors would do it for the same reason i wouldn't.

laurentyvan · July 22, 2003 2:11AM

I certainly hope they're not. I travel about half an hour to the nearest coin shop and have been a Friday regular since last January. When I first started buying, I was paying about 5% over current trends. As time passed we began forming a relationship, I began getting coin world for free, started receiving valuable advice, was warned away from certain coins that caught my fancy (for good reasons), and after about six months everything I was buying was now 5 to 10% under trends. Taking the time to establish a relationship can be very beneficial and is certainly a two way street.
I manage a Mazda store, and receive the same idiots who waste a coin dealers time while buying little at a nothing price. i.e. " I know the real value of my car, I'll offer you $500 under invoice, etc." I'm not sure a real collector is the problem for most coin stores, but the newbie with a chip on his shoulder or the so-called investor might be. A word to the wise- the only people who waste my time are the ones I allow to.

coinlieutenant · July 22, 2003 2:31AM

I hope that they do not go away either. The dealer in town has taken alot of time with me to teach etc and we have a great relationship. I dont think coin shops will go away, but I dont think that the average lower end dealer will be able to support him/herself completely on coins for very much longer. The profit margin/volume just insnt there anymore. You need one of those two things in order to survive. You either sell a few coins at a fairly hefty profit or you sell volume at a small profit. Ebay has dipped into the pool of coins that dealers can buy and also takes away the money that their customers would normally spend on them.

However, I believe that it can be worked around. Business is constantly in flux. Times change and attitudes change. Many dealers are older and set in their ways about selling. Even the biggest of companies realize that to remain rigid is to go the way of the dodo.

I believe that the sucessful small town dealers of tomorrow will be good networkers that are willing to be flexible to sell their product. Extroversion and a zest for the hobby doesnt hurt either.

As far as Ed's comments, I will take them with a grain of salt as usual. When are you going to be out of your bad mood? It has been many days now. I really liked the "new" Ed from about two months ago...

John

jadecoin · July 22, 2003 2:32AM

bushmaster, here is our response to your 2 points:

1) the internet (ebay in particular)

We do both: sell in our shop and sell on ebay. More specifically, we sell on ebay, in our shop, through our own website and at shows.

2) the fact that soo many (but not all) dealers working shops prey on the unwitting/ignorant public.

This does happen, unfortunately. Our policy is to provide the seller with a written offer that can be compared to 2 or 3 other offers from coin dealers. We strongly suggest that the seller take a day or two to shop his/her coins around town. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. This issue could be the topic of a new thread.

Regarding the guys who want to spend 4 hours trying to beat you down to below wholesale on a $50 purchase, we just don't let that happen, just as laurentyvan stated. In fact, our retail sales and purchases are by appointment only, even though we have a full time shop. Dealing by appointment only allows us to service our clients more effectively. It is nice to be able to set 1 or 2 hours aside for one serious collector. This allows us to share our knowledge and also to learn from some of our customers without interruption.

paigowjohnny · July 22, 2003 2:42AM

I'm rather disappointed with the ones in the metro San Diego area. There are several shops, although not as many as you would think in a bigger city. Problems are:

1. limited inventory, or
2. If they have inventory, it's either low grade common stuff or
3. Overgraded or problem coins...a lot of sliders being sold as "BU", which bit yours truly when he started back in collecting...or
4. Decent inventory and well graded coins, but prices WAYYYYY above standard Trends retail with no wiggle room.

I yearn for one of those "old time shops" I read about sometimes....where you trust the dealer to sell accurately graded problem free raw coins....where you can meet others and have a cup of coffee and chat (without hindering the conduct of business, mind you)...where the dealer WANTS to help as part of good business...sigh...

laurentyvan · July 22, 2003 2:43AM

jadecoin-you have the right philosophy. As to what a person receives for the coin they wish to sell, just remember, (and I think this works for a variety of buyers/sellers), "a good deal is a state of mind".

NumisEd · July 22, 2003 2:57AM

In response to the comments made by baccaruda and coinlieutenant, I hereby revise my above post to simply say "YES"

Does that make you happy? Isn't that just so interesting? A simple "YES" with nothing to substantiate my answer. I am sorry, but what I said above is how I feel and you should have the right to hear why I feel that way. You don't have to read it, but it's there if you decide to read it. The fact is that I am right and many, many dealers will tell you so. In fact, I am always right. As for being in a bad mood, I just can't get out of the rut that I am in. I am worried about this hobby of ours and I don't see it getting better....just worse.

fishcooker · July 22, 2003 3:22AM

This ties back in with the "Should prices be cheaper on Ebay" discussion. If Ebay continues its path and becomes merely a retail outlet, then the local shops will prosper - - wider marketplace with high priced competition. But if ebay somehow manages to be cheap enough, then a shop is probably too high cost to sustain.

SmallTownCoins · July 22, 2003 4:08AM

A typical neighborhood coin shop , open 6 days a week, will cost at least $100.00 a day to operate....
Thats not counting inventory, just, Rent, Utilitie's, Phone's, and that kind of never ending operating cost's....
Most "mom & pop" shop's do not inventory slab coin's that are priced in the $$ thousand's, they stock proof sets, mint sets and the coins
that are needed to fill the 20th century album's... Inventory is expensive, especially when it "sit's".....
Many collectors are now using the internet auction's to buy and sell, because it must be more exciting to do...
I have collector's in my store everyday, telling about thier on-line excitement....(some I don't aprove of, but none of my business)
Seem's like I am always "rendering opinion's" regarding on-line purchased coin's...

I have kept my coin shop alive for 21 full time years, and it has truly been a blessing , I am in no way complaining....
I have surelly seen better day's, and I feel that better day's are still ahead, but right now, it's a tough go......
People come in and expect to pay ebay prices, and it ain't gonna happen, at least not in my store, I got kid's to feed... grin.....
The Economy, on-line auction's, the grading game, modern's, all contribute to "slow retail store's",
a single shop owner just cannot stock everything...

and as far as "little old lady's gettin ripped off by the big bad dealer..... HOGWASH !!!!!.... "MOST" Dealers pay FAIR money to obtain
new fresh material, and work hard to get referrral business...

anyway, those are a few of my thought's, maybee more later....

SDCollector · July 22, 2003 5:16AM

I've often wondered how small coin shops survive...even before the eBay phenomenon. They have to keep some sort of meaningful inventory (which is costly), pay the rent/utilities, and last but not least pay themselves (and employees) a salary. I'm interested in hearing more from small shop owners on just what are the economics of a small coin shop.

cladking · July 22, 2003 5:39AM

Shops have been going through some lean times, but may be about to start pulling
out of it. A big growth in the number of shops isn't likely since e bay will draw off a lot
of the increasing business, but the type of customers served by local shops is growing.
So much of the hobby has become a niche, with specialized dealers and inventory. Ad-
vanced collectors usually have just a few series they're working on and the local shop
generally won't have coins of this caliber. Many such coins are bought over the net and
generally on thin markups. Shops do make a lot of their profits now days with buying,
and much of their business is in serving beginning and intermediate collectors. Shops are
a lot of fun though and it would be a great loss if we did ever lose them.

291fifth · July 22, 2003 5:50AM

Coin shops don't have to be on the verge of extinction. Many of them do have to be better businessmen, however. Because of eBay the days of a store dealer being able to buy many good coins cheap are over. From the looks of most dealers' store stock they are buying too much "dead" merchandise- problem coins that will never find a home, coins from unpopular series, etc.. Coin dealers need to rethink their buying policies. They need to stop tying up their limited capital in coins that don't "turn" quickly. At the same time they need to start making higher cash offers for quality merchandise. Collectors are tired of hearing "how much do you want" or the usual bad-mouthing of their coins. This is the surest way to drive their market to eBay.

In my area the coin shops are still viable. When quality coins come in they sell very quickly. However, there are also clear signs that much of the best material is no longer being offered to them. I hope to continue doing business locally but the dealers will have to improve their buying practices.

dorkkarl · July 22, 2003 5:57AM

hasn't this been asked a couple dozen times? the answer is "no". if anything, the local shop has never been busier. the internet provides him a cheap outlet for the bushels of crap that arrive weekly, while also providing him a way to fill want lists. anyone who thinks the internet is the bane of brick&mortar biz is a dandelion. the 2 work in tandem.

reports on the demise of the local coin shop have been greatly exaggerated.

K S

Elcontador · July 22, 2003 7:28AM

I get all of my material from either large auctions, a few dealers and occasionally on the bourse floor at Long Beach.

Being in the Los Angeles area, you would think there would be more coin shops available where I could buy the material that interests me, but this is not the case. They typically sell highly popular generic and bullion coins that they can move quickly.

coinkat · July 22, 2003 9:19AM

They are clearly not what they were years ago, but there are still many collectors that would rather see coins before they buy...

BillJones · July 22, 2003 9:21AM

So long as collectors think that dealers should pay Gray Sheet "bid" for the coins that they sell to them, and collectors believe that dealers should sell coins to them at Gray Sheet "bid" or in the worst cases Blue Sheet "bid," the coin shop WILL be on the endangered species list. Dealers have two choices for survival:

1. They can be “less than ethical” like those take the big ads in “Coin World.”
2. They can deal in PQ coins to knowledgeable who know you have to pay for quality.

I’d say that given the overhead costs, it’s almost impossible to be a normal, honest dealer.

MacCoin · July 22, 2003 10:29AM

no coin shops here in Maine are doing well. I can still buy coins at the shops for about the same price as I can on the net. the only thing is I can see them up close hold them,and talk to the dealer. this is so much better than the cold dry sales I find on the net. I use to buy a lot of coins from the b/s/t forum here because this is a nice place to talk to the seller and get a little history on the coin. but now its almost all link to ebay and thats a cold way to buy coins. I for one buy more from shows and shop than on the net.

TONEDDOLLARS · July 22, 2003 10:52AM

I have a coin store in the next town over from me. He just bought his own building after renting for years. So I'm sure he feels that he will be ok. I think he will too, In just the short time he has been in this location (about 1/4 mile from his old location) I have witnessed five very impressive deals come thru his door. I was doing some wiring work for him. One deal alone had thousands and thousands of dark side coins. I'm talking over one hundred thousand coins maybe more. Gold type sets in another deal. proof and mints sets of all years in another etc.etc. This dealer is super friendly and will work with you on any purchase you want. From common stuff to exotic he seems to get it all. I saw a 2 1/2 dollar pan pac come in raw go out for grading and get sold in a PCGS 67 holder, not a cheap coin. I have bought some truely monster Morgans from this dealer also. He will get something in and then wait when you show up and flip something on the counter and say "you should add this to your collection" and you know what? He is right most of the time I should and do.

TD

ohbaby · July 22, 2003 11:16AM

The internet has crushed the small coin shop and if the internet did not do it then increasing overhead would have. We won't even talk about having to be open weekends and some nights to make a living. The glamor of a neighborhood shop is imaginary.

and as far as "little old lady's gettin ripped off by the big bad dealer..... HOGWASH !!!!!.... "MOST" Dealers pay FAIR money to obtain
One of the largest dealers in the US has repeatly ripped off unknowing people. I have seen it in their shop 2x and others have confirmed it indirectly. It's disgusting but happens every day.

RGL · July 22, 2003 11:27AM

Coin shops? What coin shops? The two closest to me, and I live in a metro area of 1 million plus, have closed within the past two years. The others can't really be called coin shops, but pawn or jewelry operations with a few coins on the side. Then, there is one high-end, by appointment only slab seller ... that is it...

Robgetty · July 22, 2003 5:10PM

I would love to see more shops in my area, but most are small, disorganized shops that
mostly have cheap junk. When a dealer gives you a blank stare when you ask if he has
any seated coins, and thinks that G-VG Buffalos and Peace Dollars are the good stuff, then
it makes me want to scream

On the other hand, I have occasionally lived near well stocked, knowledgable coin shops,
and I will ALWAYS pay a little extra to be able to see the coin, and have the ability to
browse a wide variety of things. Plus, it is always nice to have a dealer who knows what
you are collecting, and sets things aside for you to look at. It is so much better than
skimming over Ebay.

dorkkarl · July 22, 2003 9:59PM

<< <i>Coin shops? What coin shops? The two closest to me, and I live in a metro area of 1 million plus, have closed within the past two years. >>

then what makes you think they were coin shops? sound like coin-shop wannabe's.

<< <i>...most are small, disorganized shops that mostly have cheap junk. When a dealer gives you a blank stare when you ask if he has any seated coins, and thinks that G-VG Buffalos and Peace Dollars are the good stuff, then
it makes me want to scream >>

again, those are not coin shops, but coin-shop-wannabe's.

like i said before, REAL coin shops are doing just fine, probably better than ever w/ the benefits of internet trading. it's the wannabe's that are thankfully shutting down.

the problem these days is that so many of you are unable to distinguish between who's real, & who's a wannabe. same w/ collectors. so many of you have no clue who is truly a coin collector, & who's a wannabe coin collector.

collecting slabs does not make you a coin-collector.

K S

MrEureka · July 23, 2003 12:16AM

collecting slabs does not make you a coin-collector

Karl - Unless you're talking about Cameron, I disagree! However, it is true that collecting slabs does not automatically make a person as smart as Dorkkarl!

jeffnpcb · July 23, 2003 12:29AM

I certainly hope not ant time soon. I believe they can reach a happy medium by riding both sides of the fence. The local dealer I do business with seems to do fairly well. He has a good client base that surprisingly has grown with the rising quarter collectors. He stocks the SAE's, mint sets, proof sets and a ton of quarters by the each, roll or bag. He has a wide variety of raw coins from 1/2 cents to Peace Dollars without being overloaded with Lincolns and Morgans. He has a variety of Currency from time to time and two small display cases of ancients. He realizes that a wide selection of product at reasonable prices keeps me and others coming back.
I believe that dealers need to focus on the core community and not overload themselves with high end coins! If they can't figure out the market place at their location, yes they will slowly fade out!

RYK · July 23, 2003 12:42AM

There are two coin shops within 10 minutes of my home. I have not purchased a coin from either and do not anticipate that I would in the future. Most collectors here are specialists and probably get most of their high dollar coins from a specialist or via auction. The few times I have recently bought "throw-away" coins, I have purchased them on ebay. I cannot imagine how a dealer can sell low cost-low margin coins to the general collecting population and also serve the specialist with high dollar coins, while competing against ebay and specialty dealers, respectively.

I feel very nostalgic about my old coin shop in Pittsburgh, PA when I was a kid. It reminds me of the pharmacy owned by the pharmacist, banks whose tellers who knew all their customers by name, the "5 and 10" store, and Isaly's ice cream and soda shop, all located in the same shopping area in Squirrel Hill in the 1970's, and all long gone.

CharlieB · July 23, 2003 1:11AM

Coin shops are not anymore on an endangered list than bank tellers.
Both will be around long after we are gone.

dorkkarl · July 23, 2003 1:53AM

<< <i><<<collecting slabs does not make you a coin-collector>>> ... I disagree! However, it is true that collecting slabs does not automatically make a person as smart as Dorkkarl! >>

being "smart" is'nt the issue. it's knowing why the he11 you are even buying the coin, other then you can read a number on the label that's stuck inside the plastic. wannabe-"collectors" are clueless, they just know a number is provide for them. if they had to provide their own grade, they would be utterly incapable of buying a coin at all.

K S

topstuf · July 23, 2003 3:36AM

YES! COIN shops are a dying breed.

However, if they add PAWNBROKING, they will do fine and prosper.

I was a coin oriented pawnbroker and the pawns pay the bills. (And THEN some...wow!)

And that allowed me to happily pass the time between coin deals.

But coins only......soon to be gone.

Demographics and economics.

eisq222 · July 23, 2003 3:54AM

I think the mom and pop shops are in trouble.More and more people want higher and higher graded coins(PCGS/NGC).Most of the coin stores in my area have raw coins,as stated above they have many problem coins. I think MOST would be body bagged if sent to PCGS/NGC.

mojorizn · July 23, 2003 4:22AM

I live in Venice, FL. Just a few miles away is a little town called Englewood. My favorite coin shop is tucked back into a little group of offices right off S.R.776. When I want to buy, sell, debate, argue, etc., the owner always makes himself available. Over the years, we have spent hours that I feel have been invaluable to my collecting enjoyment.

I couldn't bear to lose Richard and his establishment. The education and entertainment MY local coin shop provides Me is indispensable.

SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL COIN SHOP!!

Mojo

JoyofCollecting · July 23, 2003 11:35AM

When I wonder where all the wonderful coins shops have gone that I spent hours upon days browsing as a kid; I start to wonder if it is the coin shops that have gone or whether my progression within the hobby has made them a thing of the past?

Although the two primary coin shops I went to as a kid are gone, I still think if I were a kid today with $50 in my pocket I would enjoy browsing the shops that do exist. However, as I have specialized and been more exposed to many coins....there really aren't any coin shops in my area that can seem to hold my fascination. And, the dealers don't really seem to want to talk about collecting.

Thank goodness for the local and regional coins shows. There always seem to be at leat two dealers that have some inventory of what I collect and then I can usually spend a few hours at each of their tables.

So, "Yes" I do think the great coin shops of my childhood are a thing of the past. I'm just not sure if they are a thing of the past in my mind or in reality.

Are coin shops on the verge of extinction?

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