I asked David a question about some of the high prices being paid for common coins to fill slots in

barberlover

If someone could please post a link, i'd like to know your opionion on this subject and if you feel that David's answer was a little heavy on the diplomatic side. Les

kieferscoins

Link

Cameron Kiefer

FatMan

I think HRH responded to your view with a straight forward statement. You have opinions, others have differing opinions, the market will balance those opinions over time. I concur.

ER

Like I've said before, as long as there are people buying into the hype, the dealers will make tons of profit.
Here's a question for DH: I wonder how much he would pay to buy back a set of 2003 GAE PCGS MS70?
$7K, maybe?

cladking

Actually the market is pretty much dependent on supply and demand
for setting prices and opinions have relatively little effect. They may
sway or anger, but they do not drive supply or demand or price. If
you really want to cripple the market just sell your horde or quit buying
the coins.

The modern market actually took off two full years before the first registry
appeared. And the early registries EXCLUDED moderns as being too light
weight. Even before the modern market took off in 1995 there had already
been some important stirrings and Ikes were already bringing high prices.

michael

i think david hall gave you a really straight forward true right on the money answer


could not have said it better myself

sincerely michael


i can see you did not agree with him though and that is okie

to each his own
as a collector.......................collect what you like and like what you collect
and pay with money that you can afford to lose in other words buy with discretionary funds
buy the coin not the holder
collect for fun as a hobby

if you do not do all of the above that is okie************ then let the buyer beware*************

sincerely michael

lincolnSence

Here is what I think. I believe DH's answer is right on the money. Big prices, big demand. BTW, sometimes people just pay a little extra to cross an item off their list. I know I do sometimes. Say in my case its a hundred dollars. To some thats crazy, to others a thousand might be chicken feed. Long term, if the demand is there prices will continue to rise. Just look at lincolns - go figure.

Fatman - not a complaint, so please don't be offended but that cross in your icon flag - could it be anymore obvious?

dorkkarl

it's a straightforward & viable answer, misleading only in that he refers to "wonder coin".

what he should be referring to is "wonder slab"

also, i don't buy the "have fun with your coins" phrase that also appears in all their rag-ads. it should say "have fun with your slabs"

K S

DeepCoin

I agree with HRH, the market is reasonably efficient and the opinion of any single individual will not change the market. You are just back to the same old thread of why are moderns so expensive.

I for one am very pleased that the modern collectors have come along and value high grade coins so much. If all the money spent on moderns were directed at the classics, the market for those would be prohibitively expensive for me to collect.

It strikes me as really ironic that for all those who go on and on about how moderns are not worth all that money are actually benefiting from it themselves by lower prices for the coins they collect.

pmh1nic

I think his answer was pretty straightforward and accurate. Buy what YOU like and use DISPOSABLE income to do it realizing that what is in demand today and generating high prices may not be in demand tomorrow.

The hot button question is what generates demand for a particular coin and can it be sustained.

We've had this discussion regarding the SSCA 1857-S Double Eagles. Considerable demand was generated via a high profile auction, books, TV programs, reports of an upcoming movie and the legitmate (IMHO) historical significants of the coins. Given all of that the question becomes can that demand be sustained when the promotion dies down for these relatively high priced coins.

You might ask the same sort of question regarding the higher prices for moderns. How much of the demand and higher prices for the top pop coins is fueled by participation in the registry set? How much do those prices influence the rest of the market for modern coins?

dorkkarl

again , that's why "wonder slab" is a more appropriate choice of terms than "wonder coin"

K S

cladking

If antique furniture goes up in price it will have very little effect on old US coins. Those
who profit from increasing prices in that field have very little impact on numismatics and
will not transfer much of the profits or increased busness to our hobby. Increases in
stamps would have a much more direct impact on us because there is a lot more inter-
connectedness with these hobbies. Modern and classic US coins (and even world and
ancient) are all very intimately connected. There isn't always agreement about where
one ends and the other begins. Most dealers have to have at least some knowledge of
all these areas. Many collectors at least dabble in multiple areas. Any coin or set of coins
which go up in value add to the total value of all the coins and tend to serve to increase
the value of most participants stock or collections. This provides them with increased
wealth to use as they see fit. What can possibly be better for any segment of the market
than more disposable income owned by coin collectors?

There are some segments of the modern market which may well be over priced. i.e. at un-
sustainable levels. Other than a few high profile auction results these segments are likely
not so high as to constitute a huge danger to most market participants or even to special-
ists. Moderns have not been collected for very long and the market is looking for prices
which accurately reflects supply and demand. This, unsurprisingly, is causing some erratic
pricing and this will continue until more is known about supply and these forces have had
more time to balance. If this makes a classic collector hesitent to engage in these markets
then he can just wait until the market comes to him. It is on it's way

barberlover

I have nothing against collecting modern coins or coins of any kind. What i was looking for from Mr. Hall was not an affirmation of my opionion on the value of some very expensive moderns but an expression of his opionion on whether some modern collectors have gotton carried away on price not because they loved the specific coin, but simply to fill slots on the registry.

Can anyone here say they thought the person who baught the 63 dcam lincoln did so at 39,000 because they think that person loved the coin and got a good value ? or is it more likely they did so to fill a slot in the registry.

I have tried to be diplomatic in how i phrase this because i'm not trying to put anyone down and i'm not trying to tell anyone what to collect, i am worried that a shakeout may happen that could burn some people very badly who have got caught up in who has the most "70's" in there sets, but maybe i'm wrong and that 63 lincoln will sell for 100,000 some day. If you question my motives for feeling otherwise, well, i can't prove this statement but i'll say it anyway. I care about the future of this hobby, i care about young collectors who are the future of this hobby and i care about people in general. If that sounds sappy to you or you don't beleave i really feel this way and i just want my classics to be worth more, than you certainly don't know me. Do i want my coins to be worth more, hell yes! Do i want to hurt modern collecting for those that enjoy it, ? No

After the answers i've gotton here and from Mr. Hall, i will never bring this subject up again, and for the benefit of those who've done exactly what i've warned against which was not against collecting modern coins but against paying like 100 x bid for a for a slab that says "70" on it that happens to have a coin inside. FOR YOUR BENEFIT I REALLY HOPE I'M WRONG ! That there is no modern bubble going to burst someday that drives many out of the hobby, i really do not want that to happen. Les

cladking

Barberlover: My point has never been that warnings to newbies are bad for the hobby.
Even if they were bad for the hobby, it would be impossible for many people who do care
about the future and current collectors to not speak. It can't be in anyone's best interest
to sit on our hands and allow a situation to develope that we believe will hurt others. I for
one, have no problem with your observations and hope you continue them.

Nor is my point that there is no price that is too high for moderns.

My point has always been that most of the prices which seem overly high are really just the
interplay of supply and demand, that we shouldn't have our primary message to newbies be
that the coins they collect are junk or vastly overpriced. Surely newbies are in the hobby to
learn about coins whether they know it or not. We should be trying to teach them at the rate
the individual is able and willing to absorb it. If these coins truly are overpriced than the new-
bies will come to understand this in time and be more likely to turn their attention to more sta-
ble coins and less likely to leave the hobby in utter frustration.

ER

" Buy what YOU like and use DISPOSABLE income to do it "

Hmm... Is there such a thing as a DISPOSABLE income?
pmh 1nic, can you dispose some to me?

pmh1nic

ER

My wife takes care of all that I don't dispose of buying coins .

Are there coins that are more likely then others to hold or appreciate in value?

I have my opinion but if you're buying coins with "fun money" (disposible income) and are strictly interested in collecting for enjoyment and education with no concern for recouping the money you've spent on coins that question isn't important to you. If recouping or (heaven forbid) you view the money spent on coins as investment money you better do a lot of research in an attempt to answer that question.

I think some coins are more likely (and have a track record to prove it) to hold their value or appreciate than others. We can speculate all day long about the future and agree to disagree. But as far as the big picture goes I would WARN against viewing coins in general as a prudent investment vehicle.

ER

pmh 1nic,
Agree. I collect coins for pure enjoyment. And, if later down the road, I have to sell my coins and lose money, I really wouldn't mind that much. The way I see it, the years I have to enjoy my collection is more than enough to offset the loss. But it would be nice to make money, though.
BTW, I still want you to dispose some of your "fun money" to me, OK?