I can only trust PCGS

sumner1984 · April 24, 2003 1:54PM

I recently looked at all my slab coins and almost every NGC coin had an annoying nick on it.For example i have a common date 1942 ms64 PCGS walker and it is near perfect. nice coin! I have a 1941 ms66 NGC walker, and it has 2 annoying nicks directly under the sun rays. I swear that the NGC grader must of put the nicks there, they are just to perfectly under the sun rays.Why would they do such a thing ?? because must people just buy a coin without really studying it under a loup like a did.And by marking some coins, it would increase the value of un-touched coins. In fact my local coin store is now only exclusively selling NGC coins,probobly cause they can get them for cheaper since they are graded more liberally, wich i will never buy.I rather have a lower graded PCGS coin than a higher graded NGC coin.Oh im sure the NGC walker in question will cross over to PCGS, but im not going to bother cause i just dont see how 2 nicks can be naturally caused (bag marks) directly under the sun rays, i will just trade in this coin during my next purchase wich will be PCGS only.I also really like the PCGS slab, it is clear plastic and you can see some of the rim. I just cant drop $500 or more on a coin and then find annoying marks on it. I thought ms66 was reserved for near perfect coins with only minor abrasions.

ER · April 24, 2003 2:30PM

Sumner1984,
It is a unwritten rule around here that a new member has to say Hi first, before starting to ramble on.
And since you broke that rule, you are going to have to fork over one NGC-slabbed coin to each older forum member. Heeh heeh heeh!!!!

Welcome to the board. The guys and gals here are great! You will learn a lot from them.

ElectricEye · April 24, 2003 2:35PM

I typically bid on NGC coins but always figure in on the bid that they will probably grade one notch lower if in a PCGS holder. I recently submitted 3 NGC Morgans and two came back one grade lower once graded and holdered by PCGS

michael · April 24, 2003 2:54PM

i guess for me within my specialities if i was buying
IF

i would only buy the coin not the holder if the coin is in a pcgs/ngc holder and correctly graded or undergraded just a neat bonus with added case protection and neat way to display and show a coin in a neat holder!!!!!!!!

welcome to the boards and hope you finds what you are looking for on here
and hope you have lots of fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sincerely michael

ccr · April 24, 2003 2:56PM

Sorry you feel that way about NGC and about what happened to your Walker. I think you can find some real gems and real dogs in either holder. Maybe what happened to your Walker happened at NGC I don`t know. It`s been known to happen at both services. So it`s probably not what your looking for but, both services are good.

islemangu · April 24, 2003 6:27PM

I agree, Ive seen beauties and dogs(no offense dog members) in both NGC and PCGS holders.

It all boils down to who puts their money (the guarentee) with their grades. For only these companies, it makes economic sense to grade properly. I can not be typical but I have actually received more guarentee money than paid out grading fees so I know its for real and feel good about both as you should too.

jonesy · April 24, 2003 6:42PM

Sumner1984, Welcome to the Forum. You can trust these guy!!

Glenn

ksteelheader · April 24, 2003 7:15PM

Velcomin.......Ken

darktone · April 24, 2003 8:17PM

sumner1984, If these coins had these annoying ticks why did you buy them? Also a tick is not the whole determining factor in a coins grades there is also other things to consider like luster,strike, eye appeal,toning and other subjectives to consider when grading. If you are using a loupe to grade certified MS66 walkers I fear you are focusing on minute contact marks and not taking the whole look of the coin into account when grading. By the way welcome to the forum. mike

DHeath · April 24, 2003 9:23PM

For example, i have a common date 1942 ms64 PCGS walker and it is near perfect. nice coin

Sumner,

I have only one observation. How do you reconcile the statement above? If it is a near perfect nice coin, why do you believe it is in a 4 holder?

Cameo CC · April 24, 2003 9:43PM

Welcome - What is the saying - buy the coin and not the holder.

Todd

tradedollarnut · April 24, 2003 9:51PM

I typically bid on NGC coins but always figure in on the bid that they will probably grade one notch lower if in a PCGS holder.

What we have here is a self fullfilling prophesy. Since you bid so low, you only win the dogs, so you only see the bad coins, so you are convinced that they are ALL dogs.

Good coins and bad coins are in both holders. A "near perfect" MS64 undoubtably has a light wipe or is an AU64. Light ticks do not preclude a coin from being a 66.

But most important of all - only buy coins you like!

darktone · April 24, 2003 9:54PM

ElectricEye, crack the other two coins and then send them to PCGS and you will stand a much better chance of getting the grade you want. If NGC coins were truely graded one point higher than PCGS I would be buying every PCGS coin I could find and get it graded by NGC a point higher and become wealthy. My point is that each coin must be looked at seperately no matter whose holder they are in. mike

BillJones · April 24, 2003 10:10PM

BUY THE COIN, NOT THE HOLDER!!!!

Anyone who says that ALL NGC coins are inferior all PCGS coins simply does not know what they are talking about. If you don’t believe me, check some of the “blind bids” Blue Sheet. If ALL NGC coins are inferior, why are the bids for the 1903 Louisiana Purchase Jefferson gold dollar in NGC holders equal to or higher than the same coin in PCGS holders?

Gilbert · April 24, 2003 10:34PM

Anyone who says that ALL NGC coins are inferior all PCGS coins simply does not know what they are talking about.

Welcome to the forum sumner1984.
Now, let me rephrase that for you, newbie (said irascible Dr on "Scrubs")

You probably haven't seen a decent sampling of NGC coins so you may have gotten the impression that equally graded NGC coins are less desirable than PCGS coins.

With time and experience, you will come to learn, not only is that NOT true, but there is not one assessment that you can make that is ALWAYS true in every instance; you may want to refrain from making such all-encompassing conclusions -- it only fosters ill will.

My suggestion to you is -- if you are going to admire your acquisitions through a loupe, you would be better served to inspect them through a loupe BEFORE deciding on purchasing them, or you will be disappointed with your acquisitions more often than not.

Better luck in the future.

paigowjohnny · April 25, 2003 12:03AM

I own about 20 slabbed Morgans, mostly 63s with a couple 64s thrown in, from both NGC and PCGS as well as ANACS. All are, in my opinion, accurately graded..save one...from PCGS (an 03-O in 64 which in my opinion is a 63).

Buy the coin, not the slab...and don't chug the KoolAid.

Russ · April 25, 2003 12:22AM

Man, you guys get roped in easy.

Russ, NCNE

paigowjohnny · April 25, 2003 12:24AM

<< <i>Man, you guys get roped in easy. >>

I am a piker, after all

ms71 · April 25, 2003 2:14AM

Welcome aboard! You'll find nice coins for the grade in PCGS, NGC, and ANACS holders. You'll just need experience with looking at a ton of them and becoming able to judge overall eye appeal on first examination, then knowing what to look for "hiding in the bushes" upon examination with the loupe. Many of us tend to feel that one or another of the "legitimate" grading services offers the best overall rate of properly-graded coins, but I think that's more a matter of personal experience and preferences.

Edited for spelling.

Elcontador · April 25, 2003 2:50AM

Welcome to the Boards! One thing that I must reiterate. If a Walker is "near perfect," it is at least a 6. I can find noticeable contact marks in grade sensitive areas without a loupe on virtually any Walker I've seen certified as MS 65 by any grading service, and I am nearsighted. IMO, Walkers are one series of coins which are relatively easy to grade in Unc. (contrast this with SLQs).

sumner1984 · April 25, 2003 6:05AM

hi and thanks for all the replies. I do agree with everything you guys have said.I guess the reason I bought the NGC ms66 walker cause i saw it as a chance to aquire a ms66 walker. I paid $155 for it and collectors universe had it listed as aprox $250.00 value in the price list at this web site. I am aware now that these values are only a guide line and only apply to PCGS graded coins only as i called PCGS customer service.I did learn from this is that every coin should be examined by the buyer(me) before purchasing if eye appeal is that important to me.I guess the more coins I aquire, the more fussy and picky I become as the years go by.However, since after over 10 years of coin buying and PCGS has never disappointed me and I really prefer the PCGS holder (clear plastic), I will stay with them only.I will buy the coin and PCGS holder, not just the coin not the holder. and will cross over any NGC coins I have that I deam worthy of a PCGS holder.And I understand now that how well a coin is struck may cause a coin to gain points wich may compensate for nicks and abrasions wich would cause a loss of points.Thanks!

tradedollarnut · April 25, 2003 6:12AM

and will cross over any NGC coins I have that I deam worthy of a PCGS holder

If only it were that easy!

islemangu · April 25, 2003 6:49AM

ER..you made think about how I approached this forum earlier this month as a newcomer. Welcome summer and hello to respected forum. This is my first forum experience and little new for me, my apologies for past outburst

Glad to be here now with you getting down to coins.

jeffnpcb · April 25, 2003 7:01AM

Welcome and never trust any grading company other than knowing it's a genuine coin! Your eyes don't lie and it shouldn't matter what plastic shield that coin is sealed in!! Happy hunting!

ursabear · April 25, 2003 7:17AM

Hello sumner1984!

Welcome to the boards!

(The pod grows again some more

)

WANNABEDEALER · April 25, 2003 2:35PM

Buy coins not holders. I have seen the problems with low end PCGS coins versus good quality NGC coins. To figure that only PCGS coins are properly graded is silly. Look at the $30,000++ that some idiot paid for a 1963 PR70DCAM Lincoln Cent in a PCGS holder that was neither a 70 or a deep cameo. The coin had carbon spots on it. The dealers laughed when they saw that but someone who believes PCGS is God bought a nice $300 coin for over 30K.

airplanenut · April 25, 2003 2:49PM

Are the ticks on the rim? If so, it could be a small plastic piece holding the coin in its place without rotating. Also, small ticks can get on coins- it wasn't the graders. Finally, you will soon find out that the PCGS price guide is way off base and not reliable at all.

Welcome aboard!

Jeremy

sumner1984 · April 25, 2003 5:42PM

I was just upset that 2 nicks could be exactly and directly under the sun rays. I dont see how it could be possible. I also have a NGC MS65 peace dollar, it is a well struck coin but again has a annoying nick on it closer to the rim. None of my PCGS graded coins have these annoying nicks. And I know coin values are way off base, I collect coins cause i want something of history and of the past.I feel coins are a way of time traveling to some degree. A television set might cost $600 and in 6-8 years its garbage. But a $600 coin you will enjoy your life time ,and the coin should out live you. Thanks !

ElectricEye · April 25, 2003 5:56PM

"Since you bid so low, you only win the dogs, so you only see the bad coins, so you are convinced that they are ALL dogs." So Mr. Nut, if I bid higher by your logic, I will win a PQ coin instead of a dog?

I've bought NGC holdered coins that looked close to the grade and were appealing to me. When cracked and submitted to PCGS, PCGS rightfully by their opinion graded a tick lower. I've seen dogs in both holders, but the point was, I believe PCGS typically grades harder on Morgans and a few other series I collect so I am not so willing typically to pay top dollar for an NGC coin taking into account the value as an investment. Recently, I picked up an NGC holdered Morgan (close to book) I believe to be at grade or close but I wouldn't be shocked if it came back one grade lower once thru the PCGS system. This one was very appealing.

wallstreetman · April 25, 2003 7:38PM

Well, now you know why PCGS coins are more expensive!

silverandvinyl · April 25, 2003 7:45PM

That's why your walker is not MS70

wallstreetman · April 25, 2003 7:46PM

I will give you an example! Go to Ebay and type in NGC MS70 and then do the same for PCGS. Do you think NGC just recieves most of the higher quality coins?

ElectricEye · April 26, 2003 12:30AM

good point wall streetman

WANNABEDEALER · April 26, 2003 1:02AM

The statement there are dogs in both holders is correct. To say all NGC coins are overgraded by a point is silly. If you look at the King of Siam proof set was originally in NGC holders and when it was sent in to PCGS 2 or 3 coins went up, and one of them 2 points.
I remember in 1988 seeing my first Morgan dollar by PCGS in a MS68 holder, it has tiny tick marks all over the field, I was astounded as I had seen many other coins with flawless fields in 67 holders. I guess it was the right day and the right package that made that coin so special.
If you are going to pay bid then you will get the low end items.

Russ · April 26, 2003 1:05AM

<< <i>but someone who believes PCGS is God bought a nice $300 coin for over 30K. >>

To call that 1963 Lincoln a $300 coin is being generous by a factor of 15.

Russ, NCNE

WANNABEDEALER · April 26, 2003 1:08AM

It was a cameo 67 which is rare enough, but then the people in this forum would only want to pay $15 in a PCGS holder.

Russ · April 26, 2003 1:15AM

<< <i>It was a cameo 67 which is rare enough >>

Not rare at all. The 1963 cent is one of the more easily found in cameo.

<< <i>but then the people in this forum would only want to pay $15 in a PCGS holder. >>

That would be because that's just about the value of a 1963 Lincoln in 67CAM.

Russ, NCNE

I can only trust PCGS

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