Bustman- I think I learned my lesson on that and I agree with you. I think if I had waited until I cooled down to write the thread......I probably wouldn't have listed the name. I was extremely mad about the insensitive and condescending messages conveyed by the gentlemen I talked with today. At that moment...my emotions got the best of me.....and I didn't stop to think it would come to this. I didn't personally want that one conversation come to shape my entire view of the company.
BigE- You get it completely. Thanks for seeing the point. Wallstreet- It was done deal (i thought). I am not the litigious sort. Max- As the day went on ......and I have thought about it......I know they didn't try to do me "wrong"...but the problem is......it was made "wrong".....because of what transpired. I believe from John's thread.......that he is going to try and do what he can. Doesn't mean I will be happy...but hopefully it will mend the wrong.
With the caveat I have had nothing but sterling dealings with DLRC and highly recommend the firm: To play devil's advocate on being told the originally quoted/sold price was too low, have any collectors ever received a rebate check from a dealer saying they charged too much?
There is no statute of limitations on doing the right thing. An honest mistake, caught at any time, should be revealed and accepted by the party who stood to get a "freebie."
I got a rebate from Heritage for $585.00 once. Bottom line David Lawrence is a very good business. I usually buy from them because their prices whip everyone elses. They also ship extremely fast for online purchases. I think we all have kicked this dead mule into mush. Bottom line as americans is that we have the right to buy or not buy from whomever. I will continue to buy from David Lawrence!!! Glenn
<< <i>marcalan is welcome to buy the coin for us at our cost of $1650. Just call or email me personally (<a href="mailto:john@davidlawrence.com">john@davidlawrence.com</A> and it's a done deal. Coin is pulled and on hold until I hear one way or the other.
Again, thanks for those who show understanding and support. I don't mind the criticism... in fact I view it as a way to improve. >>
It seems to me Win has a problem.A little Dale Carnegy might be in order.
It seems to me Win has a problem.A little Dale Carnegy might be in order. >>
I think we should send out free copies of "how to win friends and influence to people" to all the board members............and dealers. I think I'll go re-read my copy!
To me, the biggest thing that separates dealers from eBay sellers is the customer service. When that's missing, I might as well just buy my coins on-line and skip the middle man.
First thing, the thread should of not mentioned the companys name at first, just the situation. Second, marcarlan was solicitated by DLRC and not the other way around. Third, coin was discussed with a dealer at DLRC, price agreed on, and paid. Completed deal in my book. DLRC should eat this one... Whats 1000.00 vrs all this negativity?
read and reread what singapore said over and over again
honest mistake and then just a breakdown in communication and it could have been handled better though
i understand how you feel
i would just forget about it
i think again an honest mistake just do not take it personally i am sure it was not meant that way everyone is human and i bet again just a break down in communication it does happen
tomorrow is another day and another coin
there are many coin sellers out there you might find someone that you can work with that treats you good!
Simply put, don't equate being disappointed with being offended.
I would have been disappointed, but would accept the apology and the offer of special consideration on the next transaction. Also, an offer by DLRC to sell the coin at their cost would have been appropriate, but not necessary.
I certainly don't think less of DLRC as a result of this post.
WOW.....i get home late from work and and my computer almost fried from all the heat on this thread!
This situation was not a "Win-Win" in my opinion! (sorry, couldn't resist)
Seriously......how much better off this thread would have been had it opened with "DLRC bit the bullet and completed the transaction as agreed!" Certainly a $600 or $800 or $1,000 "loss" is cheap advertising compared to the negativity brought to bear on what is generally seen as a top notch company. I personally haven't done business with them up to now......but it certainly hasn't increased their chances with me and i suspect a whole lot of other readers to this board.
At a coin show when the buck changes hands (ESPECIALLY with the public and not another dealer) the deal is done! Mistakes happen.....i've made my share and always seem to pay for them myself! Why should this be any different?
If the coins are rushed into being presented to the public before prices are verified.......who should pay for that? Slow down and get it right the 1st time! This seller contacted the buyer FIRST, price in hand from a professional coin guy. Seems like the professionalism left the building once a relatively "small" loss was to occur. Believe me, if the amounts were ludicrous, and the buyer knew it to be an obvious mistake for buying a $10,000 coin at a $1,000 price....then i would feel differently, and i suspect the buyer in this case would also. But from what i've gleaned here......this coin "could" have sold in some circles for what the buyer paid.
Were it me.....a phone call to the buyer would have been 1st on my list.....while the coin was put on hold. What's up with deligating the correction of a problem i created to another, anyway? Having someone else email a notice, even to a correct address unlike this case, is a PR mistake extraudinaire!
Two choices would have been given the buyer:
1: You can complete the deal as origianally offered, and i'll take the $600, $800, or $1000 hit (not sure as the prices quoted seemed to have changed a bit!). I've honored my end and most likely won a customer for life.....not to mention the positive fallout sure to work it's way to the various boards. VERY CHEAP advertising in the end!
2: (and MY preference) The coin would be offered at TRUE dealer cost (verified by invoice). The difference between what this cost was and what was the originally agreed to price would be a credit on any future purchases. Any new coin purchases would be figured at cost plus credit up to the next coin(s) selling listed selling price. This would allow the injured party here to recieve FULL VALUE for the amount he gives up in either real or percieved dollars.
The dealer would lose nothing except "profit" on another or possibly a few coins, and the buyer here gets the value he lost by buying the 1st coin higher than was agreed to.
Looks like a "Win-Win" to me! Joe T
The Ex-"Crown Jewel" of my collection! 1915 PF68 (NGC) Barber Half "Eliasberg".
Once again resides with Legend, the original purchaser "raw" at live Eliasberg auction. Laura and i "love" the same lady!
Joe T- I have to agree that your 2nd option certainly would have left a much better taste in my mouth....and not cost them anything in the long run. It certainly would have made me feel alot better about the mis-steps that occured on their end of the transaction. I consider myself a good customer....even if they don't see it that way (only $3600 of biz according to Win). Also.....people don't realize that I have only purchased 6 coins in my entire life with prices over $1000 and all have been in the last 6 to 9 months. So....the cost of this coin....and the decision to buy.....was NO drop in the bucket. In addition...I have spent close to $25,000 in the last year....at which I was scoffed at for mentioning. Point is....I will be spending much more over the next 10 to 20 years......and I figure DLRC will get their share of the business....so I deserved a little better than to just get "blown off".
I hope this does end in that "Win-Win" mode for you. Good luck in your future purchases. BTW....$25K in the last year ain't no small potatos in MY book! Joe T
<< <i>Joe T- I have to agree that your 2nd option certainly would have left a much better taste in my mouth....and not cost them anything in the long run. It certainly would have made me feel alot better about the mis-steps that occured on their end of the transaction. I consider myself a good customer....even if they don't see it that way (only $3600 of biz according to Win). Also.....people don't realize that I have only purchased 6 coins in my entire life with prices over $1000 and all have been in the last 6 to 9 months. So....the cost of this coin....and the decision to buy.....was NO drop in the bucket. In addition...I have spent close to $25,000 in the last year....at which I was scoffed at for mentioning. Point is....I will be spending much more over the next 10 to 20 years......and I figure DLRC will get their share of the business....so I deserved a little better than to just get "blown off". >>
The Ex-"Crown Jewel" of my collection! 1915 PF68 (NGC) Barber Half "Eliasberg".
Once again resides with Legend, the original purchaser "raw" at live Eliasberg auction. Laura and i "love" the same lady!
<< <i>I know John and Win, they ARE HONEST and ETHICAL people. I WOULD take their word they made an honest mistake >>
honesty, ethics, have NOTHING to do w/ the subject.
it is exceedingly simple: when you quote a price, you honor it. PERIOD
<< <i>I used to buy a lot from them, but have not been pleased lately. An example. I recently saw a coin listed on the DLRC site for $6,500. I thought the price was high but not ridiculous. I owned a similar coin, same series, same grade, same service, slightly better date and slightly lower pop, which I had been thinking of selling. I called Win and offered them my piece at $5,500, and was laughed off the phone, and frankly treated rudely >>
i have NOT bought a coin from them, but have tried, & my experiences were very similar to typetone's. i have offered them 10% below their asking price - which was 30% above trends to begin with - & been treated rudely. i have also asked what they would pay for a coin of the exact grade & slab as what they had overpriced - & been treated rudely.
i was berated at a couple of times on this forum for suggesting that dlrc was a dealers that i do not like, but i stand by what i said before. whenever i found something on their site i liked, i have ALWAYS found the exact same item elsewhere for less.
again, bottom line for me is not whether dlrc is "good", "bad", or "ugly". frankly, i don't care, & i don't bother looking at their ads or website anymore. i simply believe that if you are looking for a coin, you can find it for less elsewhere
<< <i>So if John (DLRC) had really ripped someone off, there IS a place where ANYBODY can go-the PNG >>
oh yeah, the png is so open to ANYBODY, which is why it's an exclusive club of good ole boys. that's why they'll they only let you in if your coins are worth A LOT OF MONEY. good 1 laura
<< <i>David Lawrence is a very good business. I usually buy from them because their prices whip everyone elses >>
I disagree with those who think this type of post is inappropriate. I think this is some of the most useful information on the board. Thanks to Marcalan84's, Typetone's, and Python1's posts, I will be extremely reluctant to do business with DLRC. DLRC was completely at fault here--they made the original pricing mistake, again agreed to that price on the phone, and then cancelled the transaction without notification. That's just poor business practices.(Additionally, DLRC's conduct is in all likelyhood a breach of contract--the transaction had been completed except for the mailing.)
Even tho I pointedly said they messed up in this instance [by not immediately placing a phone call], they are a good company and I wouldn't hesitate to do business with them.
Life's too short to hold grudges over every little thing..........
Funny how its mostly dealers who side with DLRC, are you worried that the buyer may get the better end of the deal once in a while? Yes, anyone should be exposed here!
You can fool man but you can't fool God! He knows why you do what you do!
A price is quoted and accepted, the coin is found to be special overnight, the Dealer loses out! Sorry Dealer, the coin belongs to collector now, NO EXCUSES! See why it has to be a DONE DEAL? SH*T HAPPENS! Why shouldnt the collector be on the winning side once in a while, Im sure there a plenty of Dealers who can tell you of a BIG SCORE!
You can fool man but you can't fool God! He knows why you do what you do!
Why shouldnt the collector be on the winning side once in a while
It cuts both ways. But the ones where the collector scored don't get posted here and have 100 responses to keep them at the top for two days...........
I think the dealer should give you the coin at the price quoted. Any error on their part should not affect the sale to you and I think you should push to have the coin sent to you. I hope DL reads these messages and realizes their mistake and also think of what this transaction would/could do to enhance/diminish his sales in the future!!!
Constellatio Collector sevenoften@hotmail.com --------------------------------- "No Good Deed Goes Unpunished!" "If it don't make $" "It don't make cents""
Well I wonder if the $1K (and it was only $600) that DL would have lost is worth all the bad PR that they are getting here.
The credit card was charged, it is sold. No big deal if they charged it back right away. From what I read, it was NOT a typo. There was also a "phon-o" (mistake on the phone).
I like the company, but now I will think twice before buying. Maybe the price up there is only the "bait and switch" price.
Yes, DLRC should indeed surrender to marcalan84 and concede defeat in the hostile takeover. Hand over the keys to marcalan84 and this would solve all problems.
Now, seriously, if DLRC ever makes a deal to sell the coin at cost to marcalan as I had suggested before anyone else here did then #1 I want a finders fee of -0- and #2 a shot at the coin if marcalan refuses. to buy it at cost
I remember buying from DLRC a LOOONG TIME ago even before John was fully active in the business and I have to say that his father ranked on the order of the great dealers of all times.....I rate him on the same level as Joe Flynn Sr. of Kansas City, Mo. Service to the customer was his middle name!!!
But John is going to turn out hundreds of times better than Joe Flynn's son, Joe Flynn, Jr. of years ago. I have observed John from a short distance and he is indeed a hard worker at the auctions and shows.
I do believe that DL offered to sell the coin to marcalan at cost, earlier in the thread.
Sono,
You might be surprised that this thread may have a positive effect on DL's business. Numerous board members showed their support for DL throughout the thread. Also, it prompted me to visit their site and browse for the first time. In the earlier "Thread of Death''-flame thread in which Bob Green (Park Ave Numismatics) was the target, I was similarly prompted to visit his website for the first time and later bought a very expensive (for me) coin that was at the very top of my wantlist. I would not have known about the coin, which may turn up for sale a handful of times per year and is quickly purchased, were it not for the flame thread. As in this DL case, the seller turned out to be reasonable, and a decent settlement was achieved for both parties.
What I do not think is appropriate is the use of the message boards to publicize grievances between two parties that should be easily resolved by communication between the parties (ie. flame thread today against Russ).
I still see how anyone got "screwed" here. They made a mistake in quoting the price. The buyer didn't get the coin so how was he screwed? Because he didn't get the coin at a huge discount. If it were me I would have simply asked for my money back and call it even. Unless I liked the coin that their REAL price, then I'd buy it.
jom, Tell that to a judge and watch him roll on the ground! What will DLRC do next, call up everyone he ever sold a coin to and demand his share of the ones that appreciated in value! Can collectors who sell to him demand their coin back because they sold it too cheap?
You can fool man but you can't fool God! He knows why you do what you do!
Next thing you know, a collector will buy a coin and realize they made a mistake and paid too much. What can they do? I mean, they are stuck with the coin unless there is a RETURN policy. I hate people who believe in one way streets.
Many of the same people who feel DL should have honored the deal also think a dealer owes them a return policy. Hypocracy at it's finest.
Collector and Researcher of Liberty Head Nickels. ANA LM-6053
In conclusion. I decided to buy the coin anyway.....at their cost ($1650). It wasn't a slam dunk for me (at $700 more it was very difficult). Also, I have only paid more than that 3 times for a coin. They were an S-VDB, 14-D, and a 14-S (so I don't buy that many coins in that neighborhood).
As stated earlier (Many times) by me. DLRC is an excellent company and I still believe they are run by honest and honorable people. There was a mistake made on their part (that was aggravated by lack of communication). John apologized over and over again to me yesterday on the phone. He feels bad about the situation...and obviously feels much worse now...because of this thread. He had put the wrong price on the coin (sticker...which was input by someone else at the company). He and I both just want to move on. We don't get a "do over" on how it was handled......nor can I go back and leave out their good name from the initial post. I do feel bad that many board members go off on a tangent......but I started it by posting when I was still "very angry" and the tone of my post.....inflamed others. Had I waited 3 or 4 hours.......or as John suggested......had called him to discuss it (after talking with Win)......I wouldn't have upset him...and put their reputation on the line. Instead, my thread might have been how well they handled a "messed up" situation.....once I contacted him to discuss further.
After talking with John, I will continue to do busines with them.......and I would encourage everyone who read this thread to do so also. I believe, if anything good came out of this.....it will be that they will be more careful in the future.....about how they handle a similar situation......as will I.
<< <i>Had I waited 3 or 4 hours.......or as John suggested......had called him to discuss it >>
That's it right there. If anyone takes anything out of this thread--that should be it.
Almost all of the threads of this nature I have read since I've come here could have been solved in advance by this super-secret, radical, who-would-have-thought-of-it method.
I wanted to buy a 1877 Indian cent that they had in inventory. I felt the price was a little "retailish" so I sent John an e-mail. I haggled and haggled until I got it down to a really low price that John was offering me the coin for. I slept on it for a day. Then I felt a little bad because I had beaten him down to the point I felt he was giving me the coin at the consignment cost in order to get future business from me. As a collector/buyer, I really didn't want him to have that opinion of me, so I paid him $50 more than his final offer just for good will.
Buying and selling is a two way street. I want to be able to buy coins from DLRC at reasonable prices in the future, and valued my reputation in their eyes. So in my mind, I did the right thing. Now, I'll bet future negotiations with John will be to the point and fair on all sides. In fact, we have discussed several other coins since then, that I did not buy. Others I bought straight off his website because the price was a fair price for the coins.
I'm not trying to impress anybody by writing this. The $50 was a token for the relationship. I just wanted some of you buyers out there to see these transactions from a different perspective.
If someone here posted a thread about using BIN on Ebay to purchase a coin only to find out the seller was not willing "honor" the purchase, I can't help but wonder how many of those defending John, Win and DHRC would be wanting to take the side of the Ebay seller??
Not very many, I am sure.
If the buyer were to find out that the President (not just any employee, the President) of the selling company was the individual placing the BIN on the auction, would that make you feel any different??
Hmmmmm........
Oh boohoo..boohoo, I just got off a 3 hr flight and mistakenly entered the wrong BIN price on the auction. My trained, professional numismatist employee is SO good, he couldn't even tell that the BIN was about HALF the bid price and my purchase price. Too bad, no coin for you!
If the buyer used a telephone number on the auction page to actually call the buyer, speaking with a professional numistmatist, to confirm the quality of the coin and the price, then used the BIN to purchase the coin. If the buyer then called to provide a credit card payment, would you continue to defend the Ebay seller??
DCAM the very thing you talked about has happened at least twice here and been discussed. In both instances the dealers employee mislisted the ebay price and in both cases, the buyer and the dealer reached an agreement and everyone was made happy. I can't remember the one dealer but the other was R&I. They settled the issue in both cases gentlemanly. No one was running around like you and your twin wallstreetman trying to keep this alive. Let it go dude. The buyer and seller have moved on.
Comments
BigE- You get it completely. Thanks for seeing the point.
Wallstreet- It was done deal (i thought). I am not the litigious sort.
Max- As the day went on ......and I have thought about it......I know they didn't try to do me "wrong"...but the problem is......it was made "wrong".....because of what transpired. I believe from John's thread.......that he is going to try and do what he can. Doesn't mean I will be happy...but hopefully it will mend the wrong.
The Ludlow Brilliant Collection (1938-64)
Veep
Glenn
<< <i>marcalan is welcome to buy the coin for us at our cost of $1650. Just call or email me personally (<a href="mailto:john@davidlawrence.com">john@davidlawrence.com</A>
Again, thanks for those who show understanding and support. I don't mind the criticism... in fact I view it as a way to improve. >>
It seems to me Win has a problem.A little Dale Carnegy might be in order.
It seems to me Win has a problem.A little Dale Carnegy might be in order. >>
I think we should send out free copies of "how to win friends and influence to people" to all the board members............and dealers. I think I'll go re-read my copy!
Glenn
Marcalan84 could not have asked for more.
Pennies make dollars, and dollars make slabs!
....inflation must be kicking in again this dollar says spend by Dec. 31 2004!
Erik
Second, marcarlan was solicitated by DLRC and not the other way around.
Third, coin was discussed with a dealer at DLRC, price agreed on, and paid.
Completed deal in my book. DLRC should eat this one... Whats 1000.00 vrs all this negativity?
my hotels
honest mistake and then just a breakdown in communication
and it could have been handled better though
i understand how you feel
i would just forget about it
i think again an honest mistake
just do not take it personally i am sure it was not meant that way everyone is human and i bet again just a break down in communication it does happen
tomorrow is another day and another coin
there are many coin sellers out there you might find someone that you can work with that treats you good!
sincerely michael
Simply put, don't equate being disappointed with being offended.
I would have been disappointed, but would accept the apology and the offer of special consideration on the next transaction. Also, an offer by DLRC to sell the coin at their cost would have been appropriate, but not necessary.
I certainly don't think less of DLRC as a result of this post.
This situation was not a "Win-Win" in my opinion! (sorry, couldn't resist)
Seriously......how much better off this thread would have been had it opened with "DLRC bit the bullet and completed the transaction as agreed!" Certainly a $600 or $800 or $1,000 "loss" is cheap advertising compared to the negativity brought to bear on what is generally seen as a top notch company. I personally haven't done business with them up to now......but it certainly hasn't increased their chances with me and i suspect a whole lot of other readers to this board.
At a coin show when the buck changes hands (ESPECIALLY with the public and not another dealer) the deal is done! Mistakes happen.....i've made my share and always seem to pay for them myself! Why should this be any different?
If the coins are rushed into being presented to the public before prices are verified.......who should pay for that? Slow down and get it right the 1st time! This seller contacted the buyer FIRST, price in hand from a professional coin guy. Seems like the professionalism left the building once a relatively "small" loss was to occur. Believe me, if the amounts were ludicrous, and the buyer knew it to be an obvious mistake for buying a $10,000 coin at a $1,000 price....then i would feel differently, and i suspect the buyer in this case would also. But from what i've gleaned here......this coin "could" have sold in some circles for what the buyer paid.
Were it me.....a phone call to the buyer would have been 1st on my list.....while the coin was put on hold. What's up with deligating the correction of a problem i created to another, anyway? Having someone else email a notice, even to a correct address unlike this case, is a PR mistake extraudinaire!
Two choices would have been given the buyer:
1: You can complete the deal as origianally offered, and i'll take the $600, $800, or $1000 hit (not sure as the prices quoted seemed to have changed a bit!). I've honored my end and most likely won a customer for life.....not to mention the positive fallout sure to work it's way to the various boards. VERY CHEAP advertising in the end!
2: (and MY preference) The coin would be offered at TRUE dealer cost (verified by invoice). The difference between what this cost was and what was the originally agreed to price would be a credit on any future purchases. Any new coin purchases would be figured at cost plus credit up to the next coin(s) selling listed selling price. This would allow the injured party here to recieve FULL VALUE for the amount he gives up in either real or percieved dollars.
The dealer would lose nothing except "profit" on another or possibly a few coins, and the buyer here gets the value he lost by buying the 1st coin higher than was agreed to.
Looks like a "Win-Win" to me!
Joe T
Once again resides with Legend, the original purchaser "raw" at live Eliasberg auction. Laura and i "love" the same lady!
I hope this does end in that "Win-Win" mode for you. Good luck in your future purchases. BTW....$25K in the last year ain't no small potatos in MY book!
Joe T
<< <i>Joe T- I have to agree that your 2nd option certainly would have left a much better taste in my mouth....and not cost them anything in the long run. It certainly would have made me feel alot better about the mis-steps that occured on their end of the transaction. I consider myself a good customer....even if they don't see it that way (only $3600 of biz according to Win). Also.....people don't realize that I have only purchased 6 coins in my entire life with prices over $1000 and all have been in the last 6 to 9 months. So....the cost of this coin....and the decision to buy.....was NO drop in the bucket. In addition...I have spent close to $25,000 in the last year....at which I was scoffed at for mentioning. Point is....I will be spending much more over the next 10 to 20 years......and I figure DLRC will get their share of the business....so I deserved a little better than to just get "blown off". >>
Once again resides with Legend, the original purchaser "raw" at live Eliasberg auction. Laura and i "love" the same lady!
<< <i>I know John and Win, they ARE HONEST and ETHICAL people. I WOULD take their word they made an honest mistake >>
honesty, ethics, have NOTHING to do w/ the subject.
it is exceedingly simple: when you quote a price, you honor it. PERIOD
<< <i>I used to buy a lot from them, but have not been pleased lately. An example. I recently saw a coin listed on the DLRC site for $6,500. I thought the price was high but not ridiculous. I owned a similar coin, same series, same grade, same service, slightly better date and slightly lower pop, which I had been thinking of selling. I called Win and offered them my piece at $5,500, and was laughed off the phone, and frankly treated rudely >>
i have NOT bought a coin from them, but have tried, & my experiences were very similar to typetone's. i have offered them 10% below their asking price - which was 30% above trends to begin with - & been treated rudely. i have also asked what they would pay for a coin of the exact grade & slab as what they had overpriced - & been treated rudely.
i was berated at a couple of times on this forum for suggesting that dlrc was a dealers that i do not like, but i stand by what i said before. whenever i found something on their site i liked, i have ALWAYS found the exact same item elsewhere for less.
again, bottom line for me is not whether dlrc is "good", "bad", or "ugly". frankly, i don't care, & i don't bother looking at their ads or website anymore. i simply believe that if you are looking for a coin, you can find it for less elsewhere
<< <i>So if John (DLRC) had really ripped someone off, there IS a place where ANYBODY can go-the PNG >>
oh yeah, the png is so open to ANYBODY, which is why it's an exclusive club of good ole boys. that's why they'll they only let you in if your coins are worth A LOT OF MONEY. good 1 laura
<< <i>David Lawrence is a very good business. I usually buy from them because their prices whip everyone elses >>
WHAT???
K S
DLRC was completely at fault here--they made the original pricing mistake, again agreed to that price on the phone, and then cancelled the transaction without notification. That's just poor business practices.(Additionally, DLRC's conduct is in all likelyhood a breach of contract--the transaction had been completed except for the mailing.)
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
Life's too short to hold grudges over every little thing..........
No. Does Donald Trump worry about people winning in his casinos?
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
One should also notice that it is mostly dealers that want these threads to go away.
Donald Trump plays fair with his customers, including me. I have no compaints.
On the other hand, I don't know that I'd want to be one of his creditors...
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
It cuts both ways. But the ones where the collector scored don't get posted here and have 100 responses to keep them at the top for two days...........
---------------------------------
"No Good Deed Goes Unpunished!"
"If it don't make $"
"It don't make cents""
He should win every now and then, but (not that Marc did anything wrong except aggravate a salesman) that doesn't give him a license to steal.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
against a complaint by one customer , where an honest error could have been handled better.
If I were the dealer, I would be damned , if ,after making several offers of mitigation of the matter,
I would surrender all. Settlement is a matter best handled between
the two individuals involved and not within a open forum of
50 people giving opinions . Especially when they were not directly involved in the origonal
event. Its time to let the grownups resolve their differences and let the Forum get on with
bussiness.
Camelot
The credit card was charged, it is sold. No big deal if they charged it back right away. From what I read, it was NOT a typo. There was also a "phon-o" (mistake on the phone).
I like the company, but now I will think twice before buying. Maybe the price up there is only the "bait and switch" price.
Yes, DLRC should indeed surrender to marcalan84 and concede defeat in the hostile takeover. Hand over the keys to marcalan84 and this would solve all problems.
Now, seriously, if DLRC ever makes a deal to sell the coin at cost to marcalan as I had suggested before anyone else here did then #1 I want a finders fee of -0- and #2 a shot at the coin if marcalan refuses. to buy it at cost
I remember buying from DLRC a LOOONG TIME ago even before John was fully active in the business and I have to say that his father ranked on the order of the great dealers of all times.....I rate him on the same level as Joe Flynn Sr. of Kansas City, Mo. Service to the customer was his middle name!!!
But John is going to turn out hundreds of times better than Joe Flynn's son, Joe Flynn, Jr. of years ago. I have observed John from a short distance and he is indeed a hard worker at the auctions and shows.
I do believe that DL offered to sell the coin to marcalan at cost, earlier in the thread.
Sono,
You might be surprised that this thread may have a positive effect on DL's business. Numerous board members showed their support for DL throughout the thread. Also, it prompted me to visit their site and browse for the first time. In the earlier "Thread of Death''-flame thread in which Bob Green (Park Ave Numismatics) was the target, I was similarly prompted to visit his website for the first time and later bought a very expensive (for me) coin that was at the very top of my wantlist. I would not have known about the coin, which may turn up for sale a handful of times per year and is quickly purchased, were it not for the flame thread. As in this DL case, the seller turned out to be reasonable, and a decent settlement was achieved for both parties.
What I do not think is appropriate is the use of the message boards to publicize grievances between two parties that should be easily resolved by communication between the parties (ie. flame thread today against Russ).
jom
Many of the same people who feel DL should have honored the deal also think a dealer owes them a return policy. Hypocracy at it's finest.
As stated earlier (Many times) by me. DLRC is an excellent company and I still believe they are run by honest and honorable people. There was a mistake made on their part (that was aggravated by lack of communication). John apologized over and over again to me yesterday on the phone. He feels bad about the situation...and obviously feels much worse now...because of this thread. He had put the wrong price on the coin (sticker...which was input by someone else at the company). He and I both just want to move on. We don't get a "do over" on how it was handled......nor can I go back and leave out their good name from the initial post. I do feel bad that many board members go off on a tangent......but I started it by posting when I was still "very angry" and the tone of my post.....inflamed others. Had I waited 3 or 4 hours.......or as John suggested......had called him to discuss it (after talking with Win)......I wouldn't have upset him...and put their reputation on the line. Instead, my thread might have been how well they handled a "messed up" situation.....once I contacted him to discuss further.
After talking with John, I will continue to do busines with them.......and I would encourage everyone who read this thread to do so also. I believe, if anything good came out of this.....it will be that they will be more careful in the future.....about how they handle a similar situation......as will I.
<< <i>Had I waited 3 or 4 hours.......or as John suggested......had called him to discuss it >>
That's it right there. If anyone takes anything out of this thread--that should be it.
Almost all of the threads of this nature I have read since I've come here could have been solved in advance by this super-secret, radical, who-would-have-thought-of-it method.
Carl
I wanted to buy a 1877 Indian cent that they had in inventory. I felt the price was a little "retailish" so I sent John an e-mail. I haggled and haggled until I got it down to a really low price that John was offering me the coin for. I slept on it for a day. Then I felt a little bad because I had beaten him down to the point I felt he was giving me the coin at the consignment cost in order to get future business from me. As a collector/buyer, I really didn't want him to have that opinion of me, so I paid him $50 more than his final offer just for good will.
Buying and selling is a two way street. I want to be able to buy coins from DLRC at reasonable prices in the future, and valued my reputation in their eyes. So in my mind, I did the right thing. Now, I'll bet future negotiations with John will be to the point and fair on all sides. In fact, we have discussed several other coins since then, that I did not buy. Others I bought straight off his website because the price was a fair price for the coins.
I'm not trying to impress anybody by writing this. The $50 was a token for the relationship. I just wanted some of you buyers out there to see these transactions from a different perspective.
Not very many, I am sure.
If the buyer were to find out that the President (not just any employee, the President) of the selling company was the individual placing the BIN on the auction, would that make you feel any different??
Hmmmmm........
Oh boohoo..boohoo, I just got off a 3 hr flight and mistakenly entered the wrong BIN price on the auction. My trained, professional numismatist employee is SO good, he couldn't even tell that the BIN was about HALF the bid price and my purchase price. Too bad, no coin for you!
If the buyer used a telephone number on the auction page to actually call the buyer, speaking with a professional numistmatist, to confirm the quality of the coin and the price, then used the BIN to purchase the coin. If the buyer then called to provide a credit card payment, would you continue to defend the Ebay seller??
I hardly doubt it. PA.....LEZE!!
By the way, I have JUST read this for the first time, so I think I am allowed to post. You can move on where ever you choose.