I cannot believe you cowards won't answer this question!

MrEureka

As a PERCENTAGE of the value of the slabbed portion of your collection, how much would someone have to pay you to crack them ALL out of their holders? Yes, you can resubmit them, but you have to pay the slabbing fees and you run the risk that you may get some downgrades.

I'll start. My number is 7%.

Edited to say that Cameron can exclude his sample slabs from this exercise!

Edited a second time because I CANNOT BELIEVE YOU COWARDS WON'T ANSWER THIS QUESTION!

wingedliberty

5%


Brian.

MS68

10% would be the number for my commem set. Any takers?

09sVDB

Maybe 5%. Most of my slabs are accurately graded.

kranky

Would that be the same thing as being willing to take the same amount as a discount if you bought a slabbed coin, but the dealer insisted on cracking it out upon delivery?

Askari

Careful!! It's a trick question!! He's trying to get y'all to reveal what percentage of your collection's value is solely the pieces of paper in your plastic!!

nwcs

Well, not sure. Why would someone want to pay me to break the coins out? To successfully convince me, they would need to insure the operation. Any coin damaged during the operation will be compensated for at fair market value. That being said, the cost would be the cost of reslabing fees + shipping fees + an inconvenience fee + insurance on whether the coin comes back the same grade per coin.

So as a percentage of value, I cannot easily say. However, I've spelled out a fixed cost with a variable component. And it looks something like $50 per coin minimum. So with about 100 slabs, that would be $5,000 + variable costs. I'm not sure what the value of the slab collection is, but this can get pricey for someone.

Neil

braddick

Typical coins I own- about 10%.
My "Worst Known" Commemoratives? 90%.

MrEureka

My "Worst Known" Commemoratives? 90%.

You're scared that they might upgrade?

NoGvmnt

Would they be going to PCGS for reslabbing? What does fingerprint insurance cost?

MrEureka

What does fingerprint insurance cost?

Assume it's free. What's your answer?

Nic

5%. Please. K

braddick

<< <i>My "Worst Known" Commemoratives? 90%. You're scared that they might upgrade? >>


Andy- ABSOLUTELY!

tradedollarnut

3% - will that be cash or charge?

onlyroosies

Minimum 10%.

MrEureka

Minimum 10%.

The challlenge is figuring out how LITTLE you would take!!!

Baley

I'd crack em all out on a dare, you wouldn't even have to pay me.

semicycler

You're asking a trick question. Here's why:

1. If someone was to pay me a percentage of my collection's worth to break out my coins, I need to at least break even

2. Next assume all my coins will grade exactly the same when resubmitted

3. If my collection is entirely modern coins worth $10 raw each, in a slab they are $20 coins - $10 coin plus $10 grading fees. For me to just break even, you need to pay me 50% of my collection's value.

4. If my collection is entirely classic coins worth $100 raw each, in a slab they are $130 coins - $100 coin plus $30 grading fee. For me to just break even, you need to pay me 30% of my collections value.

5. If my collection is entirely classic coins worth $1000 raw each, in a slab they are $1030 coins - $1000 coin plus $30 grading fee. For me to just break even, you need to pay me 3% of my collections value.

As you can see from this example, as the average value of my coins increase, the slabbing fees become less significant which in turn means I need less of a percentage of the collection's worth to break even. Therefore, the real answer to your question does not support the plastic/overgrading implied question.

smprfi

100%.
I like them just the way they are.

GaCoinGuy

I agree with Smprfi.........I like my few slabs just the way the are.




And on other notes, why do you feel the need to act like an ass and call everyone a coward because they wouldn't answer your stupid question?

MrEureka

Therefore, the real answer to your question does not support the plastic/overgrading implied question.

Nothing implied. I'm just trying to figure out how much of the value of your collections you perceive to be based on the plastic and how much on the coin. On average, we should get a reasonable figure. Assuming, of course, that YOU COWARDS answer the question!

EVillageProwler

I guess I'd take 2.5%, but I probably wouldn't bother to get them re-slabbed and I'd just use the money to buy even more coins. The toughest decision I'd have to make is how I'm gonna store my coins: old Wayte Raymond boards; paper flips; or, non-PVC plastic flips. I don't like Kointains, and I'd find custom-made wooden "old-time" cabinets with velvet lining to be too cumbersome.

Andy, if you offered me 5%, plus the Wayte Raymond boards, plus paying for someone to make the "old-time" cabinet -- I'll seriously consider it.

EVP

satootoko

Easy question - 100% of the cost of submitting a modern!

Since the auction house refunded my money on the MS63 they sold me that earned an AU58 slab, the only slab I own is the freebie I got for joining up! It wouldn't be worth submission fees to me, so that's what this hypothetical nut would need to give me.

FatMan

Andy

I choose not to answer your question as your premise does not apply for me. My coins are in slabs by choice and I have no desire whatsoever to crack them out. The only way they are coming out is if you buy them at 200% of value (I have no desire to sell so the price will have to be unreal) and crack them out yourself.

Mrpawn

You pay the slabbing/shipping fees and I will resub all but two of my coins. I like my first generation PCGS and NGC Buffalos in their original plastic cases. No percentage of value needed - simply a verifcation of the fact that they are already graded correctly by myself and PCGS.

gemtone65

Andy: this is a very clever and thought provoking question. I think it would have been better if you stated that the first time regrading fees are waived, to avoid comparisons between classic and modern coins which have disparate values but essentially the same grading costs.

Anyway, my sense is that most coins in our collections have probably been graded already several times and by now are maxed out. Also, current standards seem to be getting tougher than in recent years. So, I believe my minimum required percentage for breaking out all the coins in my collection would probably be higher than the numbers mentioned so far -- perhaps 20-25%. It's not that I think my coins are overgraded (who does?), but rather I prefer to play the hand I was dealt and not be subject to the whims of the grading services at a particular point in time.

oreville

In the case of the really old NGC holders such as the black one, I don't think any amount of $$ would suffice. 1800% might do?

In the case of my slabs, I would be satisfied with 75%. I like my real old slabs to stay in the real old slabs as they are not being played with and handled even if carefully. I even have a broken PCGS slab in which it broke in half and thought about having it reslabbed but decided against it. The break occurred right between the coin and the insert. A perfect fit.

I even have coins erroneously attributed by PCGS in which the computer bar coding did not agree with the description of the coin. Namely a 1798 small 8 dime and stated as such on the insert that was bar coded regular 8 in the pop reports.

Coward? Nah? I just don't believe in reslabbing, even if undergraded.

As monstercoin said many times to me, that means I leave money on the table. That is ok too. But since I practice witchcraft and always cast a spell on anyone who dares reslab any coin I sell, I don't worry about the future of any of my coins in the slab.

Oh and by the way, cameron lost out yet another PCGS sample slab to me. I happen to like the looks of the last one we bidded on.

MS68

Andy- With the title change you came up for this thread, I just have to assume you did not read the book "How to make friends and influence people" or that you are trying to make it in Clankeye's weekly story as Sir Realitycheck. If your intention was to flame all the plastic buyers here, you succeeded admirably. How much would one of those PR70DCAM moderns be worth if cracked out of its holder?

ms70

Originally posted by Baley:


<< <i>I'd crack em all out on a dare, you wouldn't even have to pay me. >>



Ok- I dare you!

Edited to add: 0.0% for me!! I'm done doing that!!

ARCO

0 Percent. I buy coins then promptly crack them out as a service to collecting, the coin, and decency in general.

Tyler

Tonelover

I'm glad to crack out plenty slabbed coins and you don't have to pay me, I'll even supply my own Wayte Raymond Boards. Actually I do it all the time without hesitation. Hope to have my own little Benson Sale a long way down the raod, here's one of the many sets I have going. Nearly all were originally purchased certified. By the way, if anyone can help me with the empty holes I would very much like to hear from you.

AU58-Unc Standing Liberty Quarter Set

MrEureka

If your intention was to flame all the plastic buyers here, you succeeded admirably.

No flames intended. I thought the responses would be interesting. For the most part, I was wrong.

Lakesammman

I haven't responded because I can't figure out why I would do such a thing.

MrEureka

I can't figure out why I would do such a thing.

The premise was that somebody was going to PAY you to do it.

goose3

I'm kinda lost but if someone were to pay me for the cost of all the slabs and for the reholders on a few that I prefer slabbed I'd bust em all.

I buy my stuff slabbed mainly to insure against problem coins or worse yet......counterfeits.

99% of my stuff is circulated Key date material anywho.

Lakesammman

I understand the premise. It would take me 2 hours to figure it out and I still wouldn't do it because of the risk of the infamous PCGS fingerprinter. I like 'em just the way they are.

GaCoinGuy

Hey I just got an interesting PM from MrEufreka..........

I think we have a new troll in our ranks.

a2labmom

I'm going to have to go with 0%. Not because I would do it for nothing, but because you couldn't offer me enough to crack my coins out of a slab. I very carefully evaluate each slabbed coin I buy, based on the coin itself, not on whose name is on the slab. I then offer what I feel is a fari price on the coin. If I can get it at my offering price, great, if not, oh well, move on to the next coin. I am very happy with my collection as it is, whether in slabs, 2x2's or air-tites. I have no desire to change anything in my collection by getting involved in the crack out game.

Typetone

50%. Who know how PCGS would grade them again? And, while the coins would be the same, the maket value would change because PEOPLE BUY PLASTIC!!

Greg

Askari

Aren't you quite right, Greg!


Sorry I exposed your "nefarious plot" Andy ... honest responses would have been much more interesting than the many artfully contrived dodges. After all, there is nothing to fear but fear itself, right?

ms71

15%. Most of that would figure to be pure profit to compensate for the aggravation. All my coins are in PCGS slabs, and they were very carefully selected over the years. I have no concern over downgrades, but damage is always a possibility. Taking 15%, I could cover the reslabbing and have enough left over for a very nice coin.

MrEureka

the maket value would change because PEOPLE BUY PLASTIC!!

The people who "buy plastic" are actually buying a hybrid product consisting of coin AND plastic. The purpose of the thread is to try to understand the distinct value of each of these two components.

It's interesting to me that some people are unwilling to consider the possibility that the values can be separated.

MS68

a2labmom- I would find it difficult to believe that you would not crack your coins out of their holders if someone would offer you one million dollars? How about half a million? How about $100,000? At some point in this excercise, you would say no. You would still have the same nice coins at the end of cracking them out, they would just have to be sent in again. At what level would you feel safe that you would cover your losses on any coins that downgrade, pay the new grading fees, and still have enough money left over to buy yourself something nice. One other thing to remember is that quite a few of you only buy nice coins and would probably end up with a number of upgrades as well. I thought it was an interesting premise. Not very practical, but fun none the less.

itsnotjustme

Bad question. Example: I have a modern MS70 valued at 1,500-2,000. There is a huge downside risk to putting a mark on that coin in the crack and resubmit process. This is a $450 coin in MS69. So I would want a good 75% on that one coin alone. I have other coins I plan to crack out free of charge and resubmit because I feel they are under graded.

oreville

What about the original black NGC holders containing a coin valued at less than $500. What is valued more? The coin or the plastic?

I will pay more than the coin is worth JUST for the plastic. Just the way it is even if the coin is grossly overgraded.

Is that the response you are looking for?

I spent a lot of time cataloging my coins with the slabs they are in and tracing them to when they were originally purchased and slabbed. Time is also very valuable. Reslabbing is not something I do.

I happen to like the look of the older PCGS and NGC slabs more than their current slabs and I do happen to like the variety of my collection since it has a wonderful array of raw, mystery as well as known unopened obw rolls, mint sealed bags, unopened GSA dollar boxes still in their original boxes along with some more I bought from GSA dollar, variety of sample slabs, variety of slabbed coins from different decades.

Having all my slabbed coins antiseptically removed from their older holders would take away an interesting niche that I believe my collection has attained. It would lose its charm to me.

In fact I stand by that 75% since I indeed have developed an emotional bond to some of those holders and like being able to show my friends that this coin has sat in this NGC, PCGS, GSA holder, obw wrapping paper on rolls, etc. and the coin is very stable in appearance (red, toning, luster or whatever) .

MrEureka

Oreville, your case is different. You don't just buy plastic for the grade and guaranty, you also buy the plastic as a collectible in its own right! However, the purpose of the thread was to isolate and estimate the value of the grade/guaranty. I guess I should have been clearer.

Gilbert

Again, I'm late on a thread, and I don't consider myself a coward , but, I would crack out all my coins for the cost of reslabbing them whenever that time should come. In other words, as long as I wouldn't incur ANY expense reslabbing them, I would do it.

Sure, I like the slabs to reflect the true grade of the coin, but I encapsulate primarily as a means of preservation, so, in the grand scheme of things, the number(s) don't matter so much to me at this time.

Of course, I don't have multi-thousand dollar coins either, but, I really don't think it would make a difference TO ME. Actually, in my mind, having multi-thousand dollar coins would make it an even more palatable to break them out.

dorkkarl

dagnabbit! i've been cracking out all my coins for FREE, your telling me your gonna PAY ME to crack 'em out???

K S

FredSanford

Free -- but only if you can do it with your teeth.

SEGS holders are especially chewy.

BillJones

Implicit in this question is the assumption that a lot of us sitting a large group of “plutonium” or “emperor” slabs. (Break out at a risk to your financial health or without the slab, the emperor (coin) has no clothes.) Prior to this year I had not “make” that many coins. I only knew that given what I had seen in other dealers’ inventories, slab grades were very inconsistently assigned.

At the beginning of this year I decided to slab all of the valuable coins that I had in my collection that were raw. It has been quite an experience. I’ve had maybe half of my coins come back in the grades that I expected. Some pieces have come back a point higher or a point lower than I expected. I had seen very similar coins to mine get much higher grades, but hey I thought the grades were accurate so that’s life. In a couple cases I got 15 to 25 points more than I expected. And in few cases I got totally unwarranted body bags. In two cases these coins were pedigreed pieces in the condition censuses that noted authors and specialty clubs have had established for many years. As far as I’m concerned a lot of these graders don’t know their job, or more likely they have so much to do and so little time to do it that they can’t do an adequate job. And on top of this I have had to wait for as much as six weeks for service that was supposed to be rendered in three weeks or less.

Bottom line: I’ve got NO INTEREST in cracking coins and giving the services any more of my money than I have to. I don’t respect a number of the opinions that have been rendered on the coins that I submitted on both sides of the scale (too high and too low), and I resent the fact that these outfits have so much influence over the coin market.

Before I get banned here I want emphasize that my beef is with all of the leading services. In short it confirms what I have thought was the case for the last 9 years. Certification is not all that some people think that it is cracked up to be.

There, now I've responded to your question and done so in a matter that was direct and honest. To sum it up, I would decline your offer because I don't want to put up with the aggravation!

MrEureka

To sum it up, I would decline your offer because I don't want to put up with the aggravation!

I appreciate your insights, really, I do, but YOU ARE A COWARD!

How much???