Two coin doctors dominating the eBay listings.

Russ

Do a search on the word "toned" in the US Coins section. It seems like every other auction is either aswimmer or tonecoin2003 (formerly easyman168). I don't know about you guys, but I find it damned irritating to open an interesting looking auction only to find these two sellers' cooked garbage.

Russ, NCNE

ARCO

Ebay is mostly a cesspool of coins now. It is very hard to find quality, properly graded coins. Being a toned coin collector would be most ungratifying given the many maggots in the hobby.

Tyler

K6AZ

Russ, there is an easy way around this. Go to the eBay search engine, and click on search by seller. The bottom box allows you to search by title, excluding certain sellers. Say you want to search for toned Morgans, and don't want to see any easyman or aswimmer listings, you would type this in the box:



Click on search, and you will get this list, and voila! No listings by aswimmer or easyman AKA tonecoin2003.

Elementary my dear Watson.

Russ

Cool! I didn't know that.

Russ, NCNE

Tonelover

<< <i>Ebay is mostly a cesspool of coins now. It is very hard to find quality, properly graded coins. >>



Pretty much sums it up. I spend lots of time there in hopes of finding a decent coin and I even bid on occassion, but the probability of that happening gets smaller by the week. Now I mostly spend time there when I'm in need of a good laugh, there are plenty of sellers and bidiots to keep me amused. The scary thing is that often you're getting the double rejects. Like I want to buy a coin from some ill-informed, price happy buyer whose currently bidding on NTC material and used ebay to buy the low end piece of junk in the first place, and now even they're dumping something. No thanks.

lablover

K6AZ
Thanks, I did'nt know you could exclude some sellers. Great information.

ursabear

K6AZ,

Thanks! You've saved me time, too. I'm always trolling for certain proof sets, and there are a few sellers I'd love to avoid reading over and over again.

gsaguy

Good tip K6AZ.....you da man!!!

GSAGUY

Coppernicus

As most of you know, I am not a fan of toned pieces, but I do understand how many of you fall in love with these. IMHO, the ONLY way to buy toned, is sight-seen, and preferably in a reputable slab.

I just got back from the South Shore Show (Milwaukee) and there was a ton of toned, raw coins. The vast majority (say 90%) looked AT to my untrained eye. The PCGS toned Morgans I own have a delicate rainbow look to them, as opposed to the overwhelming splash of color which characterizes the "shake 'n bake" varieties.

Mike

K6AZ

<< <i>As most of you know, I am not a fan of toned pieces, but I do understand how many of you fall in love with these. IMHO, the ONLY way to buy toned, is sight-seen, and preferably in a reputable slab. >>



Mike, while what you say has a lot of merit, believe it or not you can find nice, naturally toned Morgans raw. I happen to be one of the people who sell them. I just received an original bag of 84-O Morgans, and picked out 24 of the nicer ones to sell raw. I have sold one of these 24 already, this one, which is a nice high end 64 with a reverse crescent. I have 23 more which I will be imaging and listing shortly. While there is a lot of junk and AT stuff out there raw, if you sort through it, you will be able to find nice stuff. Keep an eye on the BST board for these 84-O Morgans.

rd5425

i was looking for toned coins the other day and I found a seller who goes by the name of bshwimmer, or something to that effect, I found it pretty funny

WWW

Kudos to K6AZ. Who knew such a filtering feature was available on eBay?
Now if only eBay would do a better job of filtering such sellers in the first place.

Coppernicus

K6AZ - That 1884-O is beautiful! I just worry about the newbies overpaying for some of this raw cooked junk. I didn't mean to imply that all raw pieces are AT. Your 1884 makes it clear!

Mike

K6AZ

Understand Mike.. just being sure that we are on the same wavelength. I sold that 84-O for $75. As soon as I image the rest, I will post them on the BST for similar prices.

Coppernicus

K6AZ - Same wavelength - I'll be looking for your listings on BST. Even though I specialize in Lincoln wheats, I am a sucker for Morgans, Walkers, and Mercuries, toned or not. I guess I just buy pieces that catch my eye and the 1884 you posted falls into that category. I hope the others are similar!

Mike

K6AZ

They are Mike. That was one of the few crescents, most have some sort of rainbow toning, most on the obverse which is nice. I hope to image at least ten of them tomorrow, as soon as I do I will post on the BST with them.

DCAMFranklin

Here is another one doing some AT work

AT Work

Oh well....

ccr

Here`s something I posted somewhere else. One of the worst I`ve seen on ebay.

Obvious AT Peace Dollar

DCAMFranklin

<< <i>Here`s something I posted somewhere else. One of the worst I`ve seen on ebay.

Obvious AT Peace Dollar >>




CCR- Well, that one definitely received a sprinkling of "angel's dust" prior to going into an envelope against the West window.

Have you seen the snake oil salesman's line he feeds Ebay buyers on this one?

LINK

Definitely a nice coin in a rattler holder. However, I don't believe the coin has any chance at MS-67. Most of those rattlers worthy of an upgrade, have already received it.

Coppernicus

DCAM - I think you're right that most of the rattlers worthy of an upgrade have been upgraded. The dirty little secret the ebay sellers don't want people to know is that there are plenty of rattlers that would be downgraded! I have seen many examples in the early Lincoln series.

Mike

dorkkarl

seems like you can't search on anything on ebay w/out turning up 99% garbage. it's why i don't even bother any more. too time-consuming

K S

Coppernicus

dorkkarl - I think ebay is OK for common slabbed stuff if there is a decent pic/scan. For raw, especially toned and/or keys, no way!!

So, I still browse over there occasionally.

Mike

dorkkarl

hey coppernicus, your right that you can definitely get a good deal. but i guess that for me anymore, it's just not worth the time spent wading through 1 listing after another of total gut-wrenching nauseating garbage. i guess that if someone is slick & knows how to do searches that narrow it down quick, that's great, but i just got so fed up, that i gave up on it

K S

BillJones

A really sad aspect to this is that a lot of coins are now being ruined forever because of this obsession with toned pieces. It’s a shame that collectors get so hung up white coins, toned coins and every other fad look.

Like all fads, this too will pass, and when it does those who have paid too much, and those who have bought AT pieces are going to take it in the pocketbook. Maybe that’s what it will take to set things straight.

I’ll say this once. Beautiful, naturally toned coins are very scarce. A very large number of the toned coins that are now offered are AT. Although beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, not all tarnished coins are beautiful in most people’s eyes and certainly the presence of tarnish alone does not carry a premium in every case.

As for Ebay, it’s been headed down hill for a long time. Many of the legitimate dealers have found that they cannot sell quality material on Ebay and make money. What’s mostly left are the dregs of the numismatic world. It’s a bit like Gresham’s Law. On Ebay the bad dealers have driven the good dealers out of circulation.

CLASSICS

ebay has been told about these coin doctors............they could care less! ......and the folks who get stuck with this trash are the ones going to pay now, and down the road, and learn a lesson the hard way.............mean while this guy is screwing all of them....... sideways...........what a shame.............

K6AZ

<< <i>A really sad aspect to this is that a lot of coins are now being ruined forever because of this obsession with toned pieces. It’s a shame that collectors get so hung up white coins, toned coins and every other fad look.

Like all fads, this too will pass, and when it does those who have paid too much, and those who have bought AT pieces are going to take it in the pocketbook. Maybe that’s what it will take to set things straight. >>



I'm surprised to hear you say this Bill. Now I don't deal with much besides Morgan Dollars, but nicely toned Morgans have always been "in". Sure, their popularity goes up and down, but there has always been a core group of collectors who prize them, and this is my experience going back more than 25 years.



<< <i>I’ll say this once. Beautiful, naturally toned coins are very scarce. A very large number of the toned coins that are now offered are AT. Although beauty is in the eyes of the beholder, not all tarnished coins are beautiful in most people’s eyes and certainly the presence of tarnish alone does not carry a premium in every case. >>



Which series are you speaking of? Again, I am only speaking of Morgans, but they are quiet common with nice, natural color. I just broke up an original bag of 84-O Morgans, and I can assure you the 64 I pulled for color are original, and haven't see the light of day for 119 years.



<< <i>As for Ebay, it’s been headed down hill for a long time. Many of the legitimate dealers have found that they cannot sell quality material on Ebay and make money. What’s mostly left are the dregs of the numismatic world. It’s a bit like Gresham’s Law. On Ebay the bad dealers have driven the good dealers out of circulation. >>



I will totally agree with this statement. The AT doctors and Photo doctors have ruined the market on eBay for nice, toned, certified coins. I have had several coins lately that either did not meet my reserve or starting bid, and many I started at $1 that I was hosed on. I can't sell coins at a loss, so most of what I have sold lately has been on the BST here, or through my web page.

BillJones

Yes, K6AZ, toned dollars have been popular for a long time. There was section on them in Wayne Miller’s The Silver Dollar Textbook, but they never bought the kind of premiums that they are bringing today. And the premiums of have extended down to very mediocre marked-up coins that would have hardly gotten a second glance years ago.

Yes there are a fair number of Morgan Dollars with attractive toning. Some if them have attractive golden toning around the rim, which I find appealing on a choice Mint State coin, but that’s not what these toning people want. They want spectacular colors that cover the whole obverse or whole reverse, or better still over the entire coin. That I can tell you that is not a common occurrence if the toning is natural. Wayne Miller said that years ago in his book. As for other series, attractive toning is in the eyes of the beholder, but what I have seen the kind of color that these people want is not that easy to find.

Maybe the scans or pictures are not an accurate representation of the actual appearance of the coins. But I see pieces pictures on this board of some really unattractive coins with posts from owners or perspective owners who are either bragging about the color or asking others for opinions or praise. It seems that many people here are almost desperate to get in on the toned coin bandwagon, and desperate people have a habit of paying desperate prices and buying desperate (all too often AT or unattractively toned) coins.

As I said earlier, I think this is getting out of hand, and I think that some people are going to regret their purchases somewhere down the line.

dbldie55

My local dealer sold the set of Wayne's toned coins last year. He had PCGS grade them and pedigree them to Wayne. The ones that were in his book were marked as such. He sold them as one group. Not sure what they brought though.

Clankeye

<< <i>On Ebay the bad dealers have driven the good dealers out of circulation. >>



"The best lack all conviction, while the worst are filled with passionate intensity."

Yeats -- The Second Coming

Great poem. Love that line.


What are there, like 89,000 coins up for auction on eBay at any given moment? It seems to me a given that most of them are going to be low quality or garbage. When I go to a coin show I consider myself lucky to come away with one coin that I like. Why should eBay be any different? If you are dilligent and keep looking something shows up every now and then of interest. Otherwise, you wade through The Wasteland and keep your wallet in your pocket.

Clankeye

ARCO

I agree Clankeye - large shows can be scant with good material just the same. Ebay still has nice coins for sale, one just needs to have on his hip waders to slosh through the muck and garbage to find them.

I did find this Nice Key date Barber on Ebay just last month. Am very pleased with it.PCGS F12 1897-S Barber Half

Tyler

CalGold

If you are against the sellers of AT coins on ebay, please do not encourage collectors of AT here.
There seems to be a recent rise in posts by certain people who post pictures of their latest clearly AT purchases and receive accolades from others. There is a risk that newbies who come to this forum seeking advice could be misled by those posts.

CG

BillJones

Yes I've noticed that too, CalGold. I've often held my my fire and said nothing because I didn't want to offend these people.

Still I did jump on one guy who wrote that he KNEW the coin he had jsut bought was AT, and that he liked it. No body responded to my comment and the string disappeared to the bottom of the barrel.

mr1931S

The taste for grandma's...i mean grandpa's...potassium permanganate pie is an acquired one i hear...