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$50 Panama Pacific Gold......What's the deal?

SethChandlerSethChandler Posts: 1,718 ✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum
In my opinion they are probably the most beautiful coin design.
My question is why does it appear that a good chunk of the mintage seems to be for sale at any given time? At last years ANA, I must have seen a couple of dozen coins for sale. I understand that it is a popular coin and that the survival rate is high......but why are there so many for sale ALL the time? I think there was an ad in Coin World recently where a dealer had FOUR coins for sale and this is a $40k to 50k coin!

Any thoughts?
Collecting since 1976.

Comments

  • ClankeyeClankeye Posts: 3,928 ✭
    Well, you'd have to imagine that the collector base is very thin for the coin. Not because of interest, just because of price. The pool of commemorative collectors who can afford one, and be interested in owning one long-term can't be very big. So I would guess they trade hands among investors frequently. Pure speculation on my part.

    Clankeye
    Brevity is the soul of wit. --William Shakespeare
  • SethChandlerSethChandler Posts: 1,718 ✭✭✭✭
    Hi Clankeye,

    Do you think they are overpriced?
    Collecting since 1976.
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,317 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The is popular and well known today, and many collectors would like to own one. But as was said earlier, the price keeps most collectors from purchasing one.

    Interestingly enough the coin was somewhat of a disappointment when it was introduced in 1915. Collectors were not happy that both the round and octagonal pieces bore the same design. That, along with a (then) heffty price of $200 for the complete Pan-Pac set limited the sales.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    .........and given carl's on-target analysis of how limited the owner-market is, they most likely are always the same coins being offered and not bought. it's listed as a total mintage of 1128 for both issues. many are probably held in collections for the long haul. how many can there really be for sale at one time?? not many i would imagine.

    try this, ask around for someone who has seen one in the flesh. i have yet to meet anyone who has.

    al h.image

    edited for lousy addition!! thanks keith.
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,317 ✭✭✭✭✭
    One of my local suppliers gets the Pan-Pac 50s now and then. He's even had a couple problem pieces in ANACS holders.

    The best set I ever saw in person was in the copper frame back in the in 1970s. Back then it was going for around $30,000 for the the 5 coins and the frame. Today that would not even buy one of the $50 slugs.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • ClankeyeClankeye Posts: 3,928 ✭


    << <i>Do you think they are overpriced? >>



    Now that's an interesting question I have not spent much time thinking about in my day. But... (thinking on the fly) with the mintage, and thinking that most of them probably survived, (because even in their time they were expensive and valued), and since the metal content really doesn't have much to do with it....
    I would say they are pricey. Kind of a Rolls-Royce item. But they are also necessary to anyone who wants a complete commem set. But, that's another small collector pool. I think you could count the number of people who are trying to put together full commem sets (silver and gold) as being members of a very small club.

    In reality though, I don't think you can say something isn't worth the asking price because few people can afford it. By that Catch 22 thinking most of the classic rarities in numismatics wouldn't be "worth it."

    I notice that Anaconda has a beautiful Octagonal one for sale. He might have some opinion on all this that would hold more weight than mine. Since he actually is participating in owning and selling one.

    Carl
    Brevity is the soul of wit. --William Shakespeare
  • SethChandlerSethChandler Posts: 1,718 ✭✭✭✭
    I wonder if all the people who own one.....have a complete set of commems? My guess is probably not, this coin stands on its own, its very, very unique.
    Collecting since 1976.
  • ClankeyeClankeye Posts: 3,928 ✭
    Well, I totally agree with that Seth. It is unique. And it is about as beautiful as a coin can get. Forgeting price, I am a big fan of the coin. Definitely wish I could own one.

    Carl
    Brevity is the soul of wit. --William Shakespeare
  • flaminioflaminio Posts: 5,664 ✭✭✭


    << <i>One of my local suppliers gets the Pan-Pac 50s now and then. He's even had a couple problem pieces in ANACS holders. >>



    Not possible. The ANACS holder isn't big enough to hold a Pan-Pac $50. (Neither is ACG's -- mercifully so.)

    Yep, next time I got $40-$50,000 burning a hole in my pocket, I'm buyin' one!
  • SethChandlerSethChandler Posts: 1,718 ✭✭✭✭
    Carl,

    I have an interesting story. When I was a teenager I worked in a coin store in Jacksonville, FL where I grew up. A man walked in with an old briefcase, in it was an original Pan-Pac set in the purple velvet box with all the original paperwork, complete with the signatures of THE Farran Zerbe. His grandfather ordered it at the time of issue. I gotta tell you, being 16 yrs old and carefully removing and examining 2 $50 Pan-Pac from the original box is one of the highlights of my numismatic experiences!!!

    About that briefcase.....
    Collecting since 1976.
  • ClankeyeClankeye Posts: 3,928 ✭


    << <i>an original Pan-Pac set in the purple velvet box with all the original paperwork, complete with the signatures of THE Farran Zerbe. >>



    Yeah. That would get my attention.

    Carl


    Great story. Was he selling it?
    Brevity is the soul of wit. --William Shakespeare
  • MercMerc Posts: 1,646 ✭✭
    Yes it is a beautiful coin. I saw 2 at the FUN show last year. They have always been expensive coins. $200 for the 2 coins was a lot in 1915. I wonder what else you could have bought for $200 in 1915? Wasn't a new model T car about $500?
    Looking for a coin club in Maryland? Try:
    FrederickCoinClub
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,317 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not possible. The ANACS holder isn't big enough to hold a Pan-Pac $50. (Neither is ACG's -- mercifully so.)

    Maybe you are right. What I do remember was a raw "no grade." Yes, there Pan Pac $50s that can't graded by PCGC and NGC, but that won't make them inexpensive.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • keithdagenkeithdagen Posts: 2,025 ✭
    Coin Facts lists net mintages of:

    Round -- 483
    Octagonal -- 645
    Keith ™

  • DennisHDennisH Posts: 13,996 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The $50 octagonal is #1 on my list of "Coins I'll Buy If I Win The Lotto... And I've Already Warned My Wife".

    By the way, I have no idea what #2 is.

    -- Dennis
    When in doubt, don't.
  • flaminioflaminio Posts: 5,664 ✭✭✭


    << <i>By the way, I have no idea what #2 is. >>



    Why, the $50 round of course! Silly...
  • Conder101Conder101 Posts: 10,536 ✭


    << <i>I wonder if all the people who own one.....have a complete set of commems? My guess is probably not, this coin stands on its own, its very, very unique. >>

    My guess would be that probably they DO. And the Pan Pacs were the last pieces acquired. Then after a brief ownership the set is broken up because for most people those last two coins are just too much money to keep tied up, and besides the set was complete, they need a new goal. And so the Pan Pacs return to the market again. They are rare enough to be noticed while the rest of the comm set is not.



    << <i>The best set I ever saw in person was in the copper frame back in the in 1970s. Back then it was going for around $30,000 for the the 5 coins and the frame. >>

    How about one of the double sets? Not too many people know about them. They only sold about 5 of them. I have been lucky enough to have seen one.
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,317 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I've seen at least one double set come on the market in the last 25 years. I think there are only 1 or 2 still intact.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • ClankeyeClankeye Posts: 3,928 ✭
    Now to me, that would be a major numismatic rarity. And one I would stand in line to see.

    Carl
    Brevity is the soul of wit. --William Shakespeare

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