Announcements Part 4: Full Torch Roosevelts

homerunhall

Effective 4-1-03, PCGS will be designating "Full Torch" on fully struck Roosevelt dimes. We have had a tremendous amount of collectors ask us for this market enhancement. We'll be posting the written standards and photo examples soon.

MastaHanky

*crickets*

Well, I guess the two existing Roosevelt collectors will be happy.

itsnotjustme

Neat... I need to go look at my MS67s and see if they can be MS67FT!

littlewicher

Wow, awesome! I better start buying up PCGS dimes.

coinguy1

Way to go, Hall - start your very own "flame" thread.

nwcs

Any idea what the market will place value-wise on this designation?

g097103

As 1 of the 2 Roosevelt collectors the question that springs to mind is why? Do we really need another marketing
label? This whole special label thing is getting out of hand. Look at the coin for yourself and decide if you like the strike.
But then I am often accused of liking things simple.

Russ

Yawn. I'm waiting for the FEB designation on Kennedy halves. Bwuahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!

Just kidding!!!!!

Russ, NCNE

stujoe

mdwoods

Good idea. I think I have one to resubmit. mdwoods

Of course I think that a one point upgrade is in order for the first 500 submitters.

wingedliberty

hip,hip, huurraaay!!, hip, hip, huuurraayyy!!, hippp, hiip, huuraaay!!,
For he's a jolly good fellow, For he's a jolly good fellow.......................



Brian.

merysu

Coinguy, very clever! For the point at hand IMO just one more gimmic. -mark-

Monstavet

Well, the reason for this one is pretty obvious. Any previously slabbed Roosies will have to be re-submitted to get the FT designation which will be worth an extra 2 points in a Registry set. At $30 a pop for pre-65 coins, and $10 a pop for moderns, PCGS stands to do quite well.

Effective 5/1/03, All Ike dollars will be given the FC "Full Cuba" designation, except for bicenntenial Ikes which will be designated "FSOT" for Full Sea of Tranquility if fully struck. These will be worth 3 extra Regitry points.

Effective 6/1/03, all JFKs will be designated FWIB for "Full Worm In Beak", except bicentennials
Effective 7/1/03, all SBAs will be designated FBHD for "Full Bad Hair-Do" if fully struck.
Effective 8/1/03, all Washingtons will be designated FPT for "Full Pony Tail" if fully struck...

Think of some more....if you don't, PCGS will!
Had enough of the Registry yet folks? Don't you think it is just so great for coin collecting?

Franklins will need full bald heads on top of full bell lines, Lincoln will need full curly beards, Sacs need full baby blankets, oooooooooo just think of all the possibliities for the state quarters! 50 different designation right there for the whole series. And more if they extend to Puerto Rico, and so on.

I tell you what, this idea is full of something...but I can't say what here.

1956Quarter

COOL! Glad I paid attention to that feature when I put my set together.

satootoko

PCGSYou know who!


I for one want to express my honest and sincere appreciation to CU for providing us with these wonderful forums, including this one which should be renamed "Trash PCGS"!

paigowjohnny

Monstavet beat me to it.....another registry shuffle....more crackouts and cross overs....more disappointed lemmings who didn't get their FT designation...and more $$$$ in grading fees.

paigowjohnny

<< <i>Think of some more....if you don't, PCGS will! >>



FBL on Buffalo nickels...Full butt lines.

LucyBop

Wow! Be Bop A Lula!!!! I love it!

CYBERKEN

For the SBA, I was thinking of "Full Scowl". She's easily the UGLGIEST creature on any coin or stamp anywhere-human or animal...

Veep

Monsta beat me to it too and was probably a lot funnier than I'd have been.

Clearly PCGS needs to keep coming up with ways to keep the submissions coming.

Fountainhead

How about "Full Head" and/or "Full Shield" on Seated Libertys? I was at the lot viewing today, I'm tired of squinting at MS64 coins with bald heads and four fingers (including thumb) on the right hand...

VonZipper

What about Full Steps on Lincoln memorials and Full Wheat on weaties.

cladking

This has got to be good for the hobby, but I'll reserve judgement until we
find out what the requirements for FT will be.

LucyBop

I have a full Roosie collection that is raw with both toned and untoned Roosies pulled from mint sets... I'll say this, a full torch Roosie is hard to find........

dwood

Please consider adding "Full Bladder" designation for KoinKing and the other avid urinary type set collectors.

tjkillian

Personally, I think it is a great idea. I love a fully struck coin more than any other feature, including luster! I wish they would actually grade strike as a separate grade. Fully struck coins rule!

Tom

jom

Geez...just what we don't need. Argh.

C'mon, Mr. Hall. How about doing the right thing and trash this strike designation garbage that is dependant on just a small area of the coin (this applies to FB or FBL or FH or whatever) and start designating FULL STRIKE for these coins. That way, at least the buyer will be getting something for the stupid premium he/she will have to ultimately pay.

jom

IrishMike

That would be FP for buffalos wouldn't it?

Sunnywood

All of these extra attributions (FBL, FSB, FH, etc etc) do absolutely nothing for the collector other than to arbitrarily skew the market. I oppose all of these designations, which create lots of resubmission grading fees, and particularly enrich any insiders who had prior knowledge and could hoard qualifying representatives of the series in question.

Why not just have ONE designation "FS" (FULLY STRUCK) for ALL U.S. series, or just forget the whole thing.

I, for one, always thought strike (like luster, cleanliness of surfaces, and yes, eye appeal) was an integral part of a coin's grade. I think that if you are going to break "strike" out as a characteristic, then you might as well start grading coins with multiple designations for luster, strike, eye appeal, and technical grade.

How about PCGS MS64 RT FS HL (64 technically for cleanliness, "rainbow toned," "fully struck," "highly lustrous") ... or PCGS MS64 I65 L65 S64 (technically 64, with eye appeal & luster 65, strike 64) ... or other such nonsense. At that point, the slab becomes useless except for sight-unseen transactions (which are stupid anyway, except for low-end product). And what would the pop reports look like !!!!!!!

Conversely, if you don't break strike out as a characteristic, then it should be impossible for a poorly struck coin to grade 65, or a medium strike coin to grade 67.

Another thing ... the characteristics are random. You can have an FH SLQ that doesn't have a full shield. And there's the Lib nickel ... full left corn? what about the obverse star radials? "FS" would cover EVERYTHING on the coin. Ditto for seated liberty coinage ... head, shield, but what about the top of the eagle's right (left-facing) wing or the obverse stars?

What a RACKET the whole thing is ... slabs, resubmissions, crackouts, crossovers, attributions, dipping, conserving, retoning, doctoring ... makes you think twice about spending large sums on coins ... be educated or beware !!!

Sunnywood

jbsteven

One thing to remember about PCGS is that that in business to make money. If they can take their product/service and enhance it so customers spend more money with them then they are doing their job. No one is forcing you to resubmit any coin for the new designation or for upgrades. If PCGS bacame stagnant then maybe a competitor would come in and take market share. This is PCGS's way of adding the * like NGC has done. Did anyone here compalin to NGC about the star?

There is always 2 sides to every action.

Now the part about the long processing times at PCGS is A WHOLE DIFFERENT MATTER! I understand they are working on it but if you grade faster then you can grade more and make more money! If you are backed up for 2 months on economy submission and can hire new graders to catch up to a month delay then you have made a months worth of submissions which would cover the new graders salaries(hopefully David Hall will read this)

Fountainhead

Come to think of it, why not a "FH" (Full hand) designation for Walking Libertys, too? Plenty of MS65s and MS66s in Baltimore today where the hand just melts right into the skirt....not my taste, I'm a FULL STRIKE kind of guy!

Russ

I can't believe this thread is getting more response than "Cause Of Death". As many complaints as we see about body bags, and everybody would rather debate a torch on a coin that's so small you need an electron microscope to see it?

Russ, NCNE

LucyBop

<< <i>debate a torch on a coin that's so small you need an electron microscope to see it? >>



for some of you very old cats, I'm sure thats the case....

MastaHanky

<< That would be FP for buffalos wouldn't it? >>

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

AHAHAHAHAHAH

HAHAHAH

haha

hah

heh

And in all seriousness, sure, it's a money-making tool for PCGS, but that's what they're in business for! If you don't like it, don't buy it.

DMWJR

Well, since I have the second Roosie finest sets on the Registry for both sets 1946 to present all I can do is

numispro

I'm not sure if I will be able to handle the prosperity that is sure to come from finding these little gems in old holders at the upcoming Baltimore show this week!

prooflike

I am just very happy that I DON'T collect Roosies

Monstavet

DMWJR:

That is sort of exactly my point....you have a great set of Roosies, you selected them for FUll Strike, and eye appeal, and all of those things that make a great coin...as soon as they update the registry with the new points system, your coins suck! Well, not actually, they are still the same great coins that you collected and love, but now they are not in the right holder any more. So, you get to pay PCGS a bunch more money and re-grade them - hopefully they all get the same grade or an improvement. What if they don't? What if they don't meet PCGS's definition of Full Torch? Now what will you do with those coins? Again, they are the same coins, just different holders...it will be great for you if they all cros to Full Torch and you decided to sell them...probably a big payout...but there is some risk.

Of course PCGS has the right to make as much money as they want. They have the right to grade how they want. I don't have a problem with that. If you have the money, and you want your coins in FUll Torch holders, go for it! I think a lot of value is being placed on a little blue label and not the coin itself...(at least it is blue for now)

truthteller

Well I guess my inside information was correct when this subject was brought up by me 6 months ago. The major problems I forsee is that EVERY roosie will have a full torch designation. The ones that don't will be rare.

TRUTH

gmarguli

This designation was talked about a while ago. I believe the reason that PCGS wasn't going to do it was that there was little demand. Suddenly there is a lot of demand.

I remember the talk about the Full Torch Society that is no longer together (or whatever it was called).

Elcontador

Monstavet beat me to it. I have no problem with PCGS making more money, but I don't understand why someone would pay more for a Roosie with this designation. Most of these coins were well struck, so I would imagine that for most dates, the full torch designation will be meaningless.

It's just like the hype re Cameo and Deep Cameo re 1879 through 1891 Seated and Barber proof coins. Many of these proof coins meet this designation to begin with, so anyone paying extra for such a coin is paying for the plastic, not the coin. Now show me a Seated No Motto Half that merits a Cameo or D Cam designation, now THAT's a rare coin.

While we're on the subject of special designations for coins, how about a
"full nipple" designation on the Type I SLQs?

leothelyon

Yawn. I'm waiting for the FEB designation on Kennedy halves. Bwuahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!

What does FEB stand for? Full Eagle Boobies?

Leo

ursabear

I love Roosies. I'm looking forward to the designation.

supercoin

I'm not sure why no Roosey enthusiasts (either of them ) have jumped in here yet to refute this, but for many dates they are NOT fully struck.

Yes, many dates are, just like many Mercury dates are. So what. The designation is just as legitimate as that for the Mercs.

I too (as some have posted) would prefer a more encompassing "full strike" designation, but the window of opportunity for that probably passed a long time ago.

If I were a Roosey collector I would view this as A Good Thing. Plus, just think of all the just-missed FT bargains there will to be had now.

wondercoin

THIS IS THE DAWNING OF THE AGE OF AQUARIUS, AGE OF AQUARIUS - A Q U A R I U S.

MEMO TO SECRETARY: CHANGE MY FLIGHT TO BALTIMORE TO THE EARLIEST FLIGHT OF THE DAY INSTEAD OF THE AFTERNOON FLIGHT - I NEED TO CHERRY PICK THE BOARSE FLOOR!! THERE ARE FLAMES TO BE KINDLED

WONDERCOIN

DMWJR

Supercoin, there is nothing to debate for us closet Roosie collectors. After being flamed and hosed here on the boards for the alleged "lowest of the low" series, I think it is sweeeeet revenge. I have a whole box of MS66's that have been bypassed by upgrades, and I haven't been able to give them away! Now maybe I won't!

Maybe this series will begin to get some respect. It is a super fun series to collect, and more challenging than most people think.

DMWJR

I forgot this . . . .

RegistryCoin

Been looking for Fully Struck Roosies for some time now? Those who have been looking will be rewarded, and there are many.

fivecents

This is great news David!!! So........... when are you going to designate FB= Full Beak for eagle reverse Washington quarters ? This is not a joke.




Paul

Bear

That question is asked by a person using a platypuss for an Icon?????

Android

Paul,

ACG already has the FEB (Full Eagle's Beak) designation for Washingtons.

Andy