Miss Jones: Please send Pushkin down to the office. His mother is here with his lunch.
ANACONDA
Posts: 4,692 ✭
Psssst.....hey......guys......while he's gone, check this out (PCGS MS 66 BN).......i gotta go. Bye.
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Comments
Adrian, what kind of camera are you using?
(Lemme know if you see Pushkin.....i think he's at a whine convention this weekend.)
That is a very, very lovely early copper, but it is not a 66. In my opinion, there is no such thing as an MS-66 1794 cap. If they would call it what it is (MS-63, depending on what the reverse is), it would still be the same lovely copper. In other words, it would still be worth the same amount of money to someone who knows early copper. Maybe this coin was slabbed at MS-66 as a way of ripping some rich multi-millionaire who is brand new to collecting. He/she would see that it is a "pop 1" and spend $200,000.
When PCGS slabs something like this then they are just showing their inability to grade. It is also a slap in the face.....a way of insulting our intelligence. Another example of their incompetence is when they slabbed that 1804 dollar as PF-68, or whatever the ridiculous grade was. Shoot, you nimrods can't even get your 2002 Silver Eagles in PF-68 holders, so how could something minted in 1834 be in a 68 holder, especially if it was previously graded AU and even EF at one time???
Have you seen the coin or are you going to start your own grading service where people submit coins via scan?
I smell bait.
Keep them coming.
Tom
Have you seen the coin or are you going to start your own grading service where people submit coins via scan?
Anaconda, yes, I have seen this coin. It's the Maris coin: Sheldon-30, Die State III. Any other questions?
Maris graded this same coin as MS-60. Now it's an MS-66? Who do you think knew 1794 caps better, Dr. Maris (and Sheldon) or PCGS? This is the kind of crap that makes me sick. On one hand you bash PCGS, but when they slab something to your financial benefit you agree with them. It's a double standard. Make up your mind.
Also, the ANS S-30 has just as much detail or more than your coin. Guess what it's graded as.............EF-45. Check it out if you don't believe me.
About me starting my own grading service, I would never do that since I think the grading services have been the root cause of all of our hobby's major problems: coin doctoring, artificial prices, new collectors being ripped off by problem grades, people leaving the hobby, satan-type grading services, etc. The last thing we need is another grading service. Let's get rid of them all.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
"but when they slab something to your financial benefit you agree with them. It's a double standard. Make up your mind.
Also, the ANS S-30 has just as much detail or more than your coin. Guess what it's graded as.............EF-45. Check it out if you don't believe me"
Adrian bought the coin in its current holder - he didn't get it slabbed. Neither you nor I know if/that it was slabbed to his "financial benefit". Perhaps his potential profit would be greater if the coin had been graded lower, for all you know.
Are you saying that the ANS S-30 was properly graded 45? If not, its grade isn't really relevant to this thread. If so, you're not in line with current grading standards, though you are certainly free to grade as you please.
You might know a lot about coins and you might be a really nice person (I don't know if either or both are the case) but you sure are quick to attack.
Who graded it, Stevie Wonder???
I had not seen the coin before and I am not a member of PSCG (Professional Scanned Coin Graders), so I truly appreciate the image. Are those clash marks from the reverse wreath above Ms. Liberty's head?
Mark
First, "rich multi-millionaire" is considered superfluous.
Second, "rich multi-millionaires" didn't get that way by purchasing, er sorry, investing in coins.
Third, most coin collectors are NOT "rich multi-millionaires" even the ones who buy 6 figure coins. Dealer ranks are smaller than collector ranks but I can assure you that many more "rich multi-millionaires" are in that dealer pop.
Fourth, sounds like one or more of the grading services did you wrong?
Fifth, the above notwithstanding, I would tend to agree with you about the grade but that does not detract from the fact this is an important coin and who cares the grade. Take a look at some $20 Eagle Libs, Type 1s. Even the rare, heavily bagged ones are given grades in the MS range. May not be right but it is consistent. Rare coins are graded on a more lenient scale.
-Jarrett Roberts
I know very LITTLE about coins and I am NOT a really nice person.
That's not the point here. The point is that PCGS should not apply modern coin grading standards to rare early copper. If the Maris S-30 is an MS-66, then I have rolls of MS-85 Lincolns from 1909 onward. PCGS just does not know what in the he11 they are doing with the early material.
Guys, don't misunderstand me........that is an amazing coin and a true rarity. Although the S-30 is one of the most common liberty cap varieties (R.1), there are only a few Uncs known to mankind. The MS-66 part is what pisses me off. That and the fact that ClausLerch has to pipe up everytime I make a post.
I like this one and I don't care what you call it.
Try and find another?
peacockcoins
<< <i>Die erosion is not damage and plays no role in grade.
I like this one and I don't care what you call it.
Try and find another? >>
Thanks Braddick. I knew it wasn't corrosion if it was in a MS66 slab. I just wasn't sure what it was.
-Jarrett Roberts
DessertLizard, you said "is an important coin and who cares the grade". THAT's what I am saying, so we agree. I just think that it's ridiculous that PCGS would put so a lofty grade on a coin like this. It's wanton.
DCAM, you better back off, or else I am gonna sick Russ and Lucy after you.
-Jarrett Roberts
Your most recent post is a lot different from and more even-handed than saying "On one hand you bash PCGS, but when they slab something to your financial benefit you agree with them. It's a double standard. Make up your mind."
You can disagree about the grading and/or the merits of the coin without making it personal, which is what I think you did previously. You are certainly not the only one who does that here, however. You seem to be upset about what the grading services (and dealers) do and sometimes direct your anger at others, who might be innocent - just a completely unsolicited observation.
I have a feeling that when/if we ever meet I will like you, though I'm not as confident that you will feel the same about me
Y'all have a nice day....I am going fishing.
peacockcoins
I don't dispute that within its series it may be a 66 compared to the other MS coins of that series.
What I see LOOKS to have either porosity, pitting, defects in the planchet or struck from rusted dies THAT APPEAR TO BE a bit more than minor, which to my mind, with the exception of rusted dies SHOULD limit it to below gem status AS FAR AS the number on the slab goes. That is just my philosophy based on my understanding of technical grading.
But, of course, the other aspects of the coin may balance out what I think I see, they may not be as noticeable on the actual coin OR maybe it's in the lower 66 bracket. And I would also add, that there are many coins graded 66 that I would debate don't technically merit the grade.
In any event, it's still a very attractive and desirable coin, regardless of the slab number.
NumisED, you said " Just so you guys know, I am an angry old man and I am sour about just about everything"
Please provide me with your mailing address - I think I am going to send you some sweet sauce to go with your "sour".
Gilbert summed it up nicely when he said "In any event, it's still a very attractive and desirable coin, regardless of the slab number."
What I find interesting and maybe some of you copper guys can answer is why is it an even brown color but the marks on the cheek all have a reddish ring around them? What causes that?
Plus- The inside of a holding cell in downtown Long Beach just didn't sound appealing to me.
peacockcoins
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>Don't flatter yourself, NumbNutsJed >>
That makes me laugh everytime you post it Claus
Thanks for the laugh!!!
Chris
My 1866 Philly Mint Set
NumisEd, there ARE MS66 1794 large cents in existence! If you can make it to the EAC Convention in Fort Mitchell, Kentucky, Apr 24 to 27, I will show you a few.
hookedoncoins, the corrosion you described on the reverse of the 1794 cent is die rust, present on all examples of S-30.
Tom Turissini
Check out some of my 1794 Large Cents on www.coingallery.org
I must be one of those clueless wealthy multi millionaire coin investors!
See you next week and please remember to bring me some of those pretty, I mean tarnished, oxidized, AT pennies.
Check out some of my 1794 Large Cents on www.coingallery.org
<< <i>Here's one of Moose's, imaged on a FUN convention hall table and about twice as nice in person. >>
Paul, how could it possibly be "twice as nice"!???
<< <i>Paul, how could it possibly be "twice as nice"!???
If shylock says so, believe him
I would just like to say "thanks ed" for saving me 15 minutes.
adrian
dragon
You gotta know your snakes!
Beyond being a PCGS kiss a$$, most of you guys kiss each other’s a$$ all day long. Why don’t you just face the fact that this is not an MS-66? Someone asked the question about the reddish marks on the cheek. I’ll answer that for you: THEY ARE CIRCULATION MARKS.
Anacon-duh: I don’t know why you are personally attacking me. Just because I don’t kiss you’re a$$ or drool over your rare coins that were purchased with inherited money? Also, I know several attorneys that are successful. The difference is that they don’t have time to waste all day in a coin collector forum with a bunch of psychotic losers like SantaClaus-Lurch, a.k.a. Crotch-Itch.