Covering up label on a slab at Long Beach

tjkillian

Would it be in bad form to cover up the label on a couple of PCGS coins and have David Hall give his opinion on them while at the Long Beach show? Just to get a second, expert opinion that is not tainted with the original grade?

Tom

jeffnpcb

I'd go for it and check out the arm chair graders!!!!!

jbsteven

I am taking my labels to hide the grades

Keyrock

Go for it, I'll be interested to see/hear the results

dwood

Were I Mr. Hall, I would respectfully decline. Were I pushed, I'd make sure I was at least 3-4 grades on the conservative side. If it looks 64, I'd call it 60. If it looks 62, I'd go AU50.

I'm sure he's seen this game before, and I'm sure he knows the best way to play it

kieferscoins

Why decline? It is the same thing as a raw coin not in a slab. He would grade it what he felt it would get, not a 60 for a 63 coin just because.

This would be a good question for tommorrow's Q&A session.

Cameron Kiefer

hookedoncoins

<< <i>Were I Mr. Hall, I would respectfully decline. Were I pushed, I'd make sure I was at least 3-4 grades on the conservative side. If it looks 64, I'd call it 60. If it looks 62, I'd go AU50.

I'm sure he's seen this game before, and I'm sure he knows the best way to play it >>



If this is true, mabey you could take some of your "just barely made the grade" or misgraded coins and have PCGS eat some of the prices with their grade guarantee.

-Jarrett Roberts

gmarguli

Why decline? He is a good grader. He has nothing to fear.

dwood

<< <i>Why decline? He is a good grader. He has nothing to fear. >>



Is the risk worth the reward? Honestly, I'd see it as a setup, and I'm sure he gets it all the time. What other reason would a collector have to do this except a coin that he feels is under/over graded?

Personally, I think it's in poor taste, but I'd be interested to hear what actually happens.

gmarguli

PCGS claims consistency. If these are the "fringe" coins, then so what. If David Hall agrees with the PCGS grade, he promotes the notion of PCGS consistency. If he doesn't, then maybe the coin should be graded differently, or David can explain to the owner why the coin is borderline.

Personally, I wouldn't have much faith in a professional grader who wasn't confident in regrading coins with the original grade covered.

dwood

Is David a rpofessional grader again? I thought he gave that up?

gmarguli

I don't think he is an active PCGS grader, but I'm sure he hasn't lost the ability to grade. He's still a top grader.

zenny

When ANACS does it's on the spot grading, they do not assure that the grade they give is the one you'll see on the slab when it comes back to you.

I'm guessing that if Homerun is doing it for free, there's no guarantee.

hey, I'm Johnny Cochran.

z

coinguy1

The scenario described, while seeking to find out how consistent PCGS grading is, basically puts David Hall and PCGS in a no win situation.

If he grades the coin higher, the owner might get false hopes for a higher grade. If he grades it lower, the owner might become deflated/upset. If he grades it the same, ho hum, let's move on, as he only did what he was supposed to do anyway. Or, the owner might still disagree and/or be upset.

I'm not saying he wont do it, just that there's lots of downside and little upside. Hopefully, people will be understanding of that.

RGL

Very good point, Mark ... And then, in the darkest of minds to bump PCGS' bottom line, homerunhall replies on every coin: "You know, this strikes me as undergraded. It should be sent in for a regrade."

coinkat

David Hall would not be where he is today if he did not know how to grade coins... and grade them well. He may choose to look at the grade and offer an opinion or he could say "the graders at PCGS gave you an opinion and I'll stand by that grade". I wouldn't go so far to say its bad form, but unless the coin is obvious graded improperly, why bother? If you had the chance, wouldn't you rather ask something about a coin within a series that you collect to possibly get some of his insight?

dorkkarl

what would be the point? it would just demonstrate that all grading is subjective.

K S

tjkillian

My primary reason for wanting to do this is to become a better grader. I have, to me anyway, a nice PCGS MS-62 1861-O half dollar. It is clearly uncirculated. I want to know it got as high as 62 and why it did not go higher. In other words, what makes this coin a MS-62 and would it be a low end, mid-grade or high end. I am going to get my Indian Cent collection graded as well, so on a couple of peices I want him to tell me if they are uncirculated/will be body bagged. I guess I will not cover it up, but just why it is the grade and whether low/mid/high for the grade.

Tom

coinguy1

Tom, feel free to show me the coin in Long Beach ( I think our table # is 632) for yet another subjective opinion.

TAP444

David,
Will tell you that it is only his opinion, and the graders may not agree.
so covering the grade does not matter
Tim

Trime

I agree with Mark on this. There are standards and there are coins.
Grading is intended to add a degree of objectivity to the process of characterizing and valuing coins.
Technical grading was rejected by most of you or your predecessors on the grounds that it did not take into consideration eye appeal which is linked to desirability and perceived worth. Whose eye?
Grading is not an exact science and David Hall is only the definitive arbitrator if he chooses to be (for his service). Even if he were the most skilled grader in the world and made all the rules , he might well judge a coin differently on a different day. Even if always consistant, he can not grade every coin nor can anyone else in his or other grading services. Even then we with our own eyes would disagree on more than a rare occassion.
If I were running the business I might decline this invitation. I will be interested in his response if any.
Incidentally. Mark 's invitation is a sincere one. I have every reason to believe that he will be pleased to look at your selected coins and give you his insights on grade.
Lastly, as I have said before for those of you with the time and the money" Take the ANA summer advanced grading course" It is great fun and you will learn from a group of professional graders how subjective the art is and how good these graders are. You will grow from the process.

dorkkarl

tjkillian, your to be commended for wanting to learn how to grade, but i don't see why covering up the grade helps in this at all.

K S

tjkillian

Dorkkarl, the reason I was considering it was I wanted an unbiased opinion. I feel that if someone looks at the label, they will be influenced, at least a little.

Tom