What I don't understand is if he is up to no good then why leave a trail. It seems to me that he may have nothing to hide and people are adding 2 + 2 and getting 5. How do you know for sure that a coin is not a product of nature? It seems to me after looking at his coins, and they are quite stunning, that people might be too quick to acuse of wrong doing just as much of the world is doing to America . FYI Its pick on America day tomorrow.
Welcome to the Boards, Toadstool1. I don't claim to know what your background is, however, I will tell you that you are entirely wrong when you write
<< <i>Just becasue sa chemical has the word sulfide or sulfate does not mean it has sulfur in it. >>
since the definition of a sulfide is any compound where sulfur atoms are bound directly to a carbon, metal or nonoxygen atom while the definition for sulfate is a compound that contains the SO(4) group. Obviously, in both cases, sulfur is required. Perhaps you meant something other than you wrote. Also, I don't know what point you are trying to make with you sulfur cycle post.
Edited out the resume portion of the post because I found the email address for Toadstool1 (at this point Toadstool1 does not have the PM function enabled) and the resume portion may have been construed as puffing when in actuality it was meant as information.
Let's see, aswimmer is outed for his AT'ed junk last night. Then today, by a strange coincidence Toadstool1 just happens to sign up to this board, just happens to know something about chemistry and starts to defend the AT garbage that aswimmer is pawning off on eBay. Wouldn't be the first time a sleazebag seller showed up and pretended not to be the seller of the item in question.
Now, let's have a look at another particular aswimmer auction:
It should be painfully obvious to anyone with any experience whatsoever in naturally toned Morgans that this is a blatant, doctored, artificially toned coin. Unfortunately, aswimmer finds enough gullible newbies to fall for his deception. This is fraud in my opinion. How do you sleep at night Mr. Swimmer?
Doesn't make me wonder too much, that is why I addressed Mr. Swimmer directly.
By the way, I neglected to mention in my last post that the type of AT you see in the picture is created by placing substances on the surface of the coin then exposing it to high heat, such as the 500 degree celsius hot plate he bought.
GSA Guy you may be on to something here. Toadstool is from Orinda and this Aswimmer fellow is from Lafayette. Those towns are right next to each other. At some point I am sure you can stand with one foot in Orinda and the other foot in Lafayette.
Simply amazing, you guys really know how to find something to use to jump to conclusions. Now you think I am this guy when I have never met him nor do I know of him. I was not defending his actions only questioning your lack of looking at the big picture rather than thinking that you have all the answers. I don't know about toned coins but I do know when I see a vigilante group who hang first and ask questions later. It is not the way we do things in this country. It seems to me that while this guy is doing something that people seem to like you fellows are content to puff up each others egos by telling each other how smart and superior you all are. It must be nice to know everything and find faults in others so easily. Nect you guys will be wearing Brownshirts and issueing street justice! Get a grip guys.
Now if I was this guy would I list such an obvious clue. Think, yes you got it its true I live in Orinda and had no idea where this idiot lived. Now I am starting to act like you all.
Toadstool, go sit in the corner and suck on your thumb! No one in any of these posts said anything about doing anything to you or the seller of these obviously messed with coins. Anyone who has looked at thousands of coins at hundreds of coin shows and by buying lots of coins doesnt need science to tell when a coin has been artifically toned. Its called experience. You are the one with the brown shirt! Its brown for a different reason. Youve been in the cellar under some manure. Thats where toadstools grow.
In an insane society, a sane person will appear to be insane.
FWIW sulfate is lousy choice of a form of sulfur for toning silver coins. It is very unreactive under ordinary conditions and is not readily converted to reactive sulfide forms by ordinary chemical means. Ammonium persulfate is more reactive but as more of a metal cleaner than a toner. There is nothing in that list that would be useful for toning coins. Thiourea which is a somewhat reactive form of sulfide is the basis of some dipping solutions for cleaning coins not for toning them. Obviously there is more to the toning of coins than a simple reaction between silver and sulfur.
Step outside the debate for a moment, pretend you are somebody else and ponder this: Doesn't it seem strangely coincidental that a "chemistry expert" would suddenly and out of the blue, on the very day this seller is being discussed, register at this forum to attempt a debunk of the assertions from the toning experts resident here?
I mean, come on. I believe in serendipity as much as the next guy, (actually, I think it's crap, but that sounded good), but this has a funny aroma to it. I'm not postulating as to your identity one way or the other, only noting that there is very strong cause for the skepticism you've encountered here.
Sorry Toady, but the fellow is selling artificially toned coins and would have his buyers believe they're from "grandpa's" collection. Well, they may be from grandpa's collection, but someone added color in an attempt to doop inexperienced collectors into paying far more money than what the coins are worth.
What would you call that?
On top of that, through written correspondence with forum members, he claims that these colors are natural or original. He knows better.
I only found this thread because someone asked for a chemist to comment on a question and since I am a coin collector I thought I could help. I dont collect Morgans only Buffalos and Barber Dimes.
I was doing the same thing....except he used the last name of something like Lundgren. Neither that nor any derivative thereof is listed in the Chemistry department.
Do you think I would use my real name and expose my professional carrer to the kind of risk that information in your hands would pose? You must be kidding yourselves. this time you are stopped from your fact finding eh guys. How does it feel to not be able to get an upper hand on this person? Frustrated, lack of control, nervous, sweating, you are feeling depressed, your at a loss.
I am a Buffalo Nickel and Barber Dime collector and have very high end colections of both. My Barber dime set is mostly MS with a few AU 55 s in there Most slabbed ANACS
The Buffalos are all showing full un doctored horns and 2/3 slabbed. Favorite coin is the 1898-0 Barber dime I own in MS-65 NGC. Awesome strike. I also collect Large cents and have about 280 in all grades. Only 5% slabbed.
It really is a shame that this kind of stuff goes on. Imagine the shock of the unsuspecting collectors that later try to have those coins certified only to find out that they're practically worthless.
When you take a $15 coin, artifically tone it, and then promote it as original toning so that you can sell it for $50 or whatever, I believe you're stealing...plain and simple. And while I'm no lawyer, I believe theft is still a crime.
OK folks - I had to leave this intriguing thread when my teenage daughter walked into the house, leaned over my shoulder and said "How much longer will you be on, Dad?" I surrended immediately. But while laying in bed I just couldn't fall asleep without thowing 2 cents into the pot. I also have a background in chemistry as well as biology (Univ. of Pittsburgh, BS, School of Pharmacy, 1979..you could look it up) and the good doctor's tactics reminded me of the wizard in Oz.."don't look behing the curtain, the great and powerful has spoken". Unfortunately, some astute posters looked behind the screen and saw the prof for what he is - a phony. His awkward attempts at quoting some text about biological pathways and earth sciences does little to explain the chemical reactions that could occur between these reagents under extraordinarily high temeratures. It would kinda be like me saying that gold is a substance used orally or via deep IM injection as a last resort to treat resistant cases of degenerative arthritis (not a metal that has been mined and intrinsically valued for millenia for it's scarcity and beauty). And if I'm correct, silver coins are only 90% silver, with other elements added to augment smelting and durability. What reaction would high levels of sulfur dioxide under intense heat have on those metals? Hey! - Let's ask aswimmer!
Don't you know that it's worth every treasure on Earth to be young at heart? And as rich as you are, it's much better by far, to be young at heart!
For the record I am against the doctoring or manipulating of coins for the sole purpose of profit. I am on the same page as you guys , my point was that I did not feel your conclusions were based on sound evidence. That is all. The brown shirt stuff was out of line.
Comments
Albert
Albert
<< <i>Just becasue sa chemical has the word sulfide or sulfate does not mean it has sulfur in it. >>
since the definition of a sulfide is any compound where sulfur atoms are bound directly to a carbon, metal or nonoxygen atom while the definition for sulfate is a compound that contains the SO(4) group. Obviously, in both cases, sulfur is required. Perhaps you meant something other than you wrote. Also, I don't know what point you are trying to make with you sulfur cycle post.
Edited out the resume portion of the post because I found the email address for Toadstool1 (at this point Toadstool1 does not have the PM function enabled) and the resume portion may have been construed as puffing when in actuality it was meant as information.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
GSAGUY
Now, let's have a look at another particular aswimmer auction:
1887 AT'ed Morgan
Let's look at the large obverse image:
It should be painfully obvious to anyone with any experience whatsoever in naturally toned Morgans that this is a blatant, doctored, artificially toned coin. Unfortunately, aswimmer finds enough gullible newbies to fall for his deception. This is fraud in my opinion. How do you sleep at night Mr. Swimmer?
GSAGUY
By the way, I neglected to mention in my last post that the type of AT you see in the picture is created by placing substances on the surface of the coin then exposing it to high heat, such as the 500 degree celsius hot plate he bought.
CG
GSAGUY
Credit where credit is due....K6AZ is the master sleuth....I'm just following his tracks.
Having said that, good work CG. Perhaps if they're not one in the same, Dr. L is Alan's technical rep?
GSAGUY
Russ, NCNE
Albert, yes Albert not Alan!
Its contageous
A.L.
How can you not say this is pretty?
<< <i>I am just a professor of Chemistry at a little university called Berkeley. >>
And that means what? Yep, it's the weekend.
Step outside the debate for a moment, pretend you are somebody else and ponder this: Doesn't it seem strangely coincidental that a "chemistry expert" would suddenly and out of the blue, on the very day this seller is being discussed, register at this forum to attempt a debunk of the assertions from the toning experts resident here?
I mean, come on. I believe in serendipity as much as the next guy, (actually, I think it's crap, but that sounded good), but this has a funny aroma to it. I'm not postulating as to your identity one way or the other, only noting that there is very strong cause for the skepticism you've encountered here.
Russ, NCNE
What would you call that?
On top of that, through written correspondence with forum members, he claims that these colors are natural or original. He knows better.
GSAGUY
BTW, what brought you to the forum?
GSAGUY
<< <i>I mean, come on. I believe in serendipity as much as the next guy, (actually, I think it's crap, but that sounded good >>
I understand crap easier
See Berkeley Chemistry Faculty:
http://chem.berkeley.edu/people/people_faculty.html
I was doing the same thing....except he used the last name of something like Lundgren. Neither that nor any derivative thereof is listed in the Chemistry department.
GSAGUY
Bwuahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Russ, NCNE
Albert
GSAGUY
Albert
TRUTH
GSAGUY
GSAGUY
The Buffalos are all showing full un doctored horns and 2/3 slabbed. Favorite coin is the 1898-0 Barber dime I own in MS-65 NGC. Awesome strike. I also collect Large cents and have about 280 in all grades. Only 5% slabbed.
Al
While he's having dinner maybe you could find me some nickels?
Tim
P S : This is really funny, but I know you are serious about squashing this doctor!
It really is a shame that this kind of stuff goes on. Imagine the shock of the unsuspecting collectors that later try to have those coins certified only to find out that they're practically worthless.
When you take a $15 coin, artifically tone it, and then promote it as original toning so that you can sell it for $50 or whatever, I believe you're stealing...plain and simple. And while I'm no lawyer, I believe theft is still a crime.
GSAGUY
every treasure on Earth
to be young at heart?
And as rich as you are,
it's much better by far,
to be young at heart!
Albert