Got my 1892 PF63CAM Morgan back today from PCGS with 2 fingerprints on it! Photos Added

jbsteven · February 10, 2003 3:49AM

man what a let down. Now the process of sending the coin back, they investigate, hopefully they fix and then I am sure 3-4 weeks later I will get it back.

BTW I have a photo of the coin when it was in the non cam holder before I sent it to them and there is no fingerprints.

anyone else go through this before?

before the upgrade and fingerprints (3:30 and 12:30)

images added below of fingerprints

Russ · February 10, 2003 3:54AM

<< <i>anyone else go through this before? >>

Yep. Twice.

Russ, NCNE

jbsteven · February 10, 2003 4:03AM

russ:

quick synopsis of results?

thx

Russ · February 10, 2003 4:05AM

Send coin back, problem corrected, coin comes back no fingerprint.

Edit: Here's a thread I posted about it.

Russ, NCNE

jbsteven · February 10, 2003 4:07AM

how long did it take them?

littlewicher · February 10, 2003 5:05AM

I've only had two fingerprinted coins that I received back from them, that weren't there when sent in. They were both Ike dollars. But, I have had some fingerprinted coins that I've got before, and since I wasn't the submitter, I can't be 100% sure that they weren't there when sent to PCGS.

gmarguli · February 10, 2003 8:25AM

Oh, I've had it happen one or twenty times.

Call Charlie and he'll work with you on it.

supercoin · February 10, 2003 8:28AM

Now THIS is an aggravating issue that PCGS really could and should do something about, and one they've known about forever. They've probably ruined more coins than coin doctors.

At least your coin's value isn't dependent on some nice toning. Then you're really screwed.

CLASSICS · February 10, 2003 8:42AM

all graders should be required to wear cotton gloves.!!!!! problem solved!!!!!

Twowood · February 10, 2003 10:19AM

I can't believe that a first class operation like PCGS tolerates this kind of service.
Makes you wonder! Twowood

Placid · February 10, 2003 10:26AM

<< <i>all graders should be required to wear cotton gloves.!!!!! problem solved!!!!!

>>

D. Hall said that gloves will cause more problems with coins being dropped and rolling away.
It's in the Q&A section.

CLASSICS · February 10, 2003 12:13PM

<< <i>

<< <i>all graders should be required to wear cotton gloves.!!!!! problem solved!!!!!

>>

D. Hall said that gloves will cause more problems with coins being dropped and rolling away.
It's in the Q&A section. >>

..........................gloves will cause more problems? not if handled carefully, and they take thier time,.........and hold the coin over a soft pad. it sure beats getting finger prints on a very expensive proof coin or any coin for that matter. so they get a finger print on it, one sends it back to pcgs........ they remove the finger print............what by dipping it?.........because someone doesnt know how to use gloves? ...to me thats no excuse.

supercoin · February 10, 2003 12:36PM

It's been assumed by many -- and seems likely to me too -- that fingerprinting most likely happens outside the grading room. Probably when the coins are inserted in the slabs. Or in this case, perhaps by whoever cracked it out of the old holder.

But whatever the case, it's inexcusable. It's a problem that's been known for a long time, and PCGS should just fix it. Period.

airplanenut · February 10, 2003 12:40PM

Only 2???

Send it back for a refund, or at least a third!

maddox · February 10, 2003 12:48PM

I say track the culprit down and break his/her fingers....What a shame..........and a proof Morgan ARGH^%%$ I'd be spittin fire...........

supercoin · February 10, 2003 12:53PM

... and has been mentioned before, since we are talking about FINGERPRINTS, after all, it wouldn't be hard for PCGS to definitively identify the responsible individual(s).

Elcontador · February 10, 2003 1:00PM

I don't know how many different threads I've read about this in the last six months. The fingerprint matter screams of a horrible lack of an adequate internal control system. Geez, I could probably study their system of internal control and a half hour after completing the study, I could tell them how to fix this problem. I don't believe NGC has this ongoing problem.

leothelyon · February 10, 2003 1:08PM

It's interesting how they'll clean off a fingerprint but asked them to take a q-tip to remove a small ugly toning spot to improve the look of the coin and they said, "we don't do that! I would have done it but the coin was in a slab and I had sent it in as a crossover. Don't they dip coins at the request of the submitters?

Leo

relayer · February 10, 2003 2:00PM

It's not a problem - they just send it to one of their coin doctor submitters and it will be as good as new - or perhaps even better

gmarguli · February 10, 2003 2:17PM

and has been mentioned before, since we are talking about FINGERPRINTS, after all, it wouldn't be hard for PCGS to definitively identify the responsible individual(s).

I sent back two coins that had clear fingerprints. One was a war 5¢ that had a nice clear print on the reverse.

The other was a Kennedy and it almost seemed intentional the fingerprinting. I forget how many prints I counted on it. It was some sickening number like 12. All around the rim of the coin.

PCGS could have easily used these coins to match up the person working there.

However, the prints are now all gone. Charlie took care of the problem for me.

braddick · February 10, 2003 2:25PM

What's whacked is this is an old problem- a complaint that has been repeated since these boards first kicked in.

Simple question: it appears NGC has solved this problem...
Why can't (read: won't) PCGS?

I'd be ticked off all day long if my CAM Morgan was returned with a fingerprint and I then had to wait another month or more to get it back, hopefully fixed.
PCGS does right by so much but to blow it in this one arena is absolutely bogus.

Dog97 · February 10, 2003 2:51PM

That would make me really really mad!! I would go pay PCGS a personal visit and probably end up in a California jail if they did that to one of my babies.

Gilbert · February 10, 2003 7:51PM

I agree wholeheartedly. It is pitiful that this is still occurring. I wouldn't be completely satisfied with them "correcting" it -- they should exercise as much care, if not more, than any of us.

aaarghhh! It just seems so disrepectful to reckless with someone else's valued property. At this point, someone should lose their job. This has been going on tooooooo, long. What say you, Mr. Hall?

jbsteven · February 10, 2003 8:27PM

tt

VonZipper · February 10, 2003 10:10PM

What ever happened to holding a coin by its edges? Are these graders minimum wage people off the street that have not been taught how to handle valuable coins like ordinary pocket change?Put it this way there is no possible excuse for this happening, I don't handle my coins in this manner and have no problems handling coins with gloves on. Sorry rambling on....

redhott · February 10, 2003 10:40PM

Can I assume that PCGS refunds their fee on the occasions where they admit to having added fingerprints to your coins? If not, it seems they have no incentive to try and prevent the problem of poor workmanship.

BillJones · February 10, 2003 10:42PM

There is a low-tech solution here. It’s called GLOVES.

Why doesn’t PCGS have enough respect for their customers to put an END to this? Obviously it’s not an isolated incident, and it’s something that concerns me every time I submit a very valuable coin.

Come on PCGS, GET YOUR ACT TOGETHER! Hire a PROFESSIONAL to put the coins in the slabs!!!!!!!!!!!!

Elcontador · February 11, 2003 8:13AM

A grading service putting fingerprints on a coin is like a handyman coming to your house, doing his work, taking your money, taking a dump in your living room and then leaving you to deal with the mess.

littlewicher · February 11, 2003 8:19AM

I was just looking over my 2002- PCGS MS69 SAE. As, I turned the coin in the light, instantly, fingerprints popped up!

With the coin tilted a certain way, I saw numerous nasty blotchy spots, which looks like grease that has been solidified when it gets cold, that can't be seen head on. Since I bought this coin from a dealer, I can't be sure that it wasn't on there before.

Gilbert · February 11, 2003 8:41PM

JBStevens,

If I remember correctly, the last time this issue was brought up to D. Hall (when he first started fielding the Q&A Forum) he asked for examples. I believe this is a perfect example, especially since it is a recent submission AND has occurred since the topic was brought to his attention. Opportunity is knocking - please take advantage, for your sake as well as ours. If nothing else, forward the thread to him.

darktone · February 11, 2003 9:32PM

It seems like there is alway's someone complaining of fingerprints on a recent submission. Could it be possible that PCGS lightly dips coins to detect doctoring only to unknowingly uncover an old fingerprint? just a thought . mike

jbsteven · February 11, 2003 10:16PM

ok, good idea about sending a link to this thread.

what is D Halls' email address? anyone?

MacCoin · February 11, 2003 10:26PM

I say find the owner of the finger print and send him down the road talking to himself. I don't need a gradeing service to finger print my coins I'll just eat a porkchop and handle any I think would grade mint state.
Really sorry to see the mess pcgs left on your morgan. I sure they will make it right with you $$ wise but they can't give back the time they had it.

gsaguy · February 12, 2003 12:51AM

It just amazes me that this problem continues to surface at PCGS. As supercoin and others have stated, it's inexcuseable!

If PCGS instituted a ZERO TOLERANCE company policy with the guilty party taking his show down the road, I guarantee the problem would drop to near zero almost overnight.

I'd be plenty pissed to see an ugly footprint on what had previously been a beautiful coin.

GSAGUY

TAP444 · February 12, 2003 1:08AM

As long as they continue to recieve tons of orders
what do they care, apparantly they are still very busy
grading coins as evident by the turnaround time.
So as long as the flow stays steady the money still comes in
a print here or there does not seem to matter to them
Now if the rate drops then you may see a change
its all about the money, thats why you may have to send
in your coins 5 or 6 times to get the correct grade
Tim

Got my 1892 PF63CAM Morgan back today from PCGS with 2 fingerprints on it! Photos Added

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