Now that we are in the Internet age, the way I see it, coin dealers are kinda like travel agents. For most purchases, you don't need them. Why pay full retail if you don't have to? You can deal direct - either with someone on Ebay for mostly lower end stuff (thought there certianly are exceptions, such as Adrian and Ira Stein), or via the auction houses for the high end stuff. When buying via those venues, you has equal footing with the dealer. OTOH, there are certain times you may want to, or need to, make use of a dealer's expertise and/or inventory, and for this, they certainly are due their compensation for their time and efforts.
tradedollarnut, I have only read the first post and not the others but I thank you for posting that. Most of the items listed I would not do.
How about this for a good dealer. Obviously a dealer is going to have regular customers. How about getting to know those regular customers, finding out what they collect and working with them. I told one of the guys I started going to that I was looking for Peace Dollars and he tried to sell me a Morgan and other new items he had in stock. I would much rather him say "Sorry, the Peace Dollars have become a popular item. Let me know what your looking for/grade/price range...etc and I will see what I can find for you."
Of course...then we might come across issues like you mentioned. The dealer could even suggest that you bring in what you have collected thus far so he had a better idea of what you are looking for.
My biggest pet peeve with collecting has to do with collectors/dealers/ebay. Why do people try to make their coin out to be something they are not. The coin might be G4 but they state it is VF20, it is AU58 but they say it's MS64...Which brings me to a point I want to address the dealers on:
Let's say I go to a dealer and is trying to sell me a coin, he believes the coin is a higher grade than I think it is. What would be the proper approach? Should I say something like "I'm not so sure, there appears to be a good deal of wear on the cheek and in the hair, which I would think would warrant that coin to be (ie AU50), What's your opinion". I don't have a great deal of experience with haggling like this but I often find myself just saying politely "no thanks". I passed over a coin I really liked and if I find myself in the position again, how should I handle the situation?
<< <i>Great dealers abound. Jon at RCONH immediately comes to mind. >>
hands down, the best dealer I have ever encountered. It might cost you an extra percent or two, but no doubt you are buying quality and great service when you deal with Jon.
"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather did, as opposed to screaming in terror like his passengers."
<< <i>Let's say I go to a dealer and is trying to sell me a coin, he believes the coin is a higher grade than I think it is. What would be the proper approach? Should I say something like "I'm not so sure, there appears to be a good deal of wear on the cheek and in the hair, which I would think would warrant that coin to be (ie AU50), What's your opinion". I don't have a great deal of experience with haggling like this but I often find myself just saying politely "no thanks". I passed over a coin I really liked and if I find myself in the position again, how should I handle the situation? >>
Dave,
I had a similar situation described above and I told teh dealer I would by it for the stated price if it got it slabbed. I even paid for the grading fee, as I did not think it should be his responsibility to do so. If the coin is not in a slab, there is a reason.
"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather did, as opposed to screaming in terror like his passengers."
EVP, if you would care to come out of your rareified atmosphere you'd realize that there are MANY local dealers that behave in the manner Frank describes. To chalk it up as somehow all his fault smacks of telling the sexily dressed lady who's been assaulted that "Hey babe, lookatcha. You was asking fer it." Get over yourself.
I think you're missing my point. I do not dispute that there are scumbags out there. There may even be many scumbags. And, that's the point... It ain't right that Frank, et al, gets screwed by the scumbags. But, it's a big bad world out there. There should be no argument about that. Given that realization, it is still Frank's personal responsibility exercise all due care in his affairs.
The woman who got assaulted was certainly victimized. There is no way to sugar-coat that! But, ask any woman and she'll tell you that she should still conduct herself with all due awareness. No, we should not punish the victim. But, the potential victims should still do what they can to be on guard simply because we don't live in Utopia!
As for getting over myself... when was I under myself?
Frank, I understand completely! I was one of the "Score" coins. I had to sell a coin because something came up. I was offered a low-ball number because the dealer told me the coin was only xf-au. My opinion was 65 or better. We agreed on a number in between. The next time I was in the store he was bragging to me how much he got for the coin! I was paid $700 and he sold it for $1700. If he didn't brag I wouldn't have known--how's that for an in-your-face dealer! As far as I concerned he took advantage of me because he knew I was in need. Not good for the hobby is it?
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
Let me make something perfectly clear: I have no patience for rip off artists playing coin dealer. However, if you know someone is a rip off artist and you still deal with them, what does that say about you?
The point of this thread is that once you've found a GOOD dealer, what actions on YOUR part will enable the relationship to thrive. What actions on YOUR part will stop a relationship dead in its tracks. This is not intended to be a thread where we talk about the ripoff artists in the world and say what jerks all dealers are by association. It simply ain't true.
Again, this is all secondhand, but I know that each of those items has happened to Legend in the last year. And I know for a fact they aren't ripoff artists. In fact, I've seen them send extra money after the fact to people that sold them a deal where they made more than they expected! A little different philosophy at work than the scumbag who will throw it back in your face about how much he made on your coin.....
I feel like making a simple declaration that I am grateful for my return to collecting, and that I have gained much from it. Russ is certainly correct that numismatics mirrors society as a whole. The good, the bad and the ugly. It's all there.
I have had to fight to hold on to my joy of the hobby at times. Certain experiences have tested it--stretched it, strained it and otherwise drained it. But, as someone once said (and I have quoted here before) "All good things stand moment by moment on the razor's edge of danger, and must be fought for."
Successful transactions with any human in any area are pretty much contingent on a base level of respect being shown by each party. I know in the real world this does not always happen. But, in my world, I try to make sure that it does.
<< <i>Given that realization, it is still Frank's personal responsibility exercise all due care in his affairs.
EVP >>
exactly. Given the fact that this is a hobby, as opposed to a profession, for me, I fall into the categiry of knowledgeable collector, but by no menas "expert". I am buying from experts, who have a distinct advantage, therefore, I can either advance my level of knowledge, which will take a considerable investment of time, or I can make a decision to not participate in a game I am ill-equipped to win.
I take responsibility, and choose the latter.
"I want to die peacefully in my sleep like my Grandfather did, as opposed to screaming in terror like his passengers."
Okay, I read through the thread and hearing both sides is a great education. A few points I would like to bring up... Russ is right on the mark with the Good/Bad/Ugly, you get that with both dealers and customers.
Frank brings up some good points. I recently dealt with him in purchasing a few coins and he was very gracious and we chewed the fat a bit. I was surprised about the reaction he received from voicing his opinion.
Again, I don't have the vast experience that many of you have but I know of one dealer who goes by graysheet value when selling coins but at the same time he often grades the coins higher than what they really are. On the same token, when it comes to buying from a customer, he doesn't go by graysheet value and will offer the lowest amount the customer will accept. I have overheard him a few times stating a certain coin would not sell or he already has a few in inventory... at one point I was bringing in some coins to see if he was interested in them. He totally low balled me on the value and as such, I took some off the table. I did sell him some coins, again at low ball prices but he made me a good deal the previous time I was there.
Would it be a total insult, after given a price ask him if he could do better? and then point out that you could get 2x-3x-4x as much selling on ebay? Or point to the graysheet prices and say "According to the graysheet 'bid', the coins are worth $270. You could turn around and sell them at the 'ask' for $350".
What about when a dealer misrepresents a coin's condition and price. How as a customer should I handle that situation? Let's say I come home and my friend who works for TGCGS (The Greatest Coin Grading Service) tells me that coin was over graded and I was still overcharge at that grade. (I'm just using this as an example) Do i have any recourse with the dealer? or is that something I should discuss with the dealer prior to buying the coin. Or am I (bleep) out of luck because I should have known how to grade and price the coin
I hope none of this sounded like criticism towards dealers. There seems to be good discussion but there seems to be a tad bit of mud slinging. Let the Dealers educate us customers and hopefully in return, us customers can educate the dealers.
I am going to add one for the thread.....dont put your briefcase, redbook, greysheet, lunch, and 2 little kids at my booth so that you have room to look at the dealer case next to mine at a show.....since you got me going....dont drive me crazy about paying 50c for the new state quarter...if you want it for a quarter than go to a bank yourself and if you do cough up 4 bucks for the exciting 4 misc tokens you picked out of my $1 dont tell me that your only giving me $2 because you bought 4 tokens from the other dealer and he only charged 50c each.....have a great day!
This is a partial answer for Dave (dakra) and his question
<< <i>Would it be a total insult, after given a price ask him if he could do better? and then point out that you could get 2x-3x-4x as much selling on ebay? Or point to the graysheet prices and say "According to the graysheet 'bid', the coins are worth $270. You could turn around and sell them at the 'ask' for $350". >>
in relation to offering his coins for sale. My take on it is that not only is it not an insult to ask if the dealer can do better, but, it is part of the negotiation for many folks. I don't know that any level-headed dealer would have a problem with that. As for pointing out that they could be sold for x amount more on ebay, well, I don't like that. I would probably retort to a person stating that that they should simply keep the coins and sell them on ebay themselves so that they could realize the greater profits. I also don't have a problem with pointing to Greysheet values but would not take very kindly to having a resale price suggested to me. This is just my opinion and I consider myself one of the easiest going people to deal with when it comes to coins.
Scarsdale, I would never do that! but people do attempt those type of things to get a better price.
I wanted to add a couple of things (not directed at your Scarsdale)
In respect to some things that Frank mentioned. Some people pressed the issue that he should leave the hobby as from what he stated and due to some of the bad dealings he had. In retrospect, that sounds silly because if your a dealer who is so sick of your customers...why are you in the business?
Whether a customer is good, bad or ugly... they also help you pay the bills. It would be great to have all customers who know every single rule ever created by a dealer or who knows the in's and out's of coin ethics etc..etc.. but you guys know that just isn't possible. There is the little kid who picks his nose and all he wants to know about is all those coins and why a penny is worth $10. Perhaps by being his "lil buddy", a coin collector is born. Perhaps that poor slob who is bald, wearing shorts with the dark socks who is wearing his shirt inside out just needs a bit of guidance. Perhaps he is being a pain in the arse because he knows no better. Be personable, you don't have to be his "best lil buddy" but perhaps you can turn him into a collector who comes to your show wearing his Armani Suit
There are two instances I can remember as a kid. Being a pain in the arse to the guy at the electronics store. I asked him "What's this, What's that, what does that do"... and to this day I can tell you most every frequency the airports, NOAA Weather Radio, Local Police and Fire departments use. And then when I first got a car, I actually hung out with my mechanic and learned the in's and out's of automechanics and even worked with him at one point. I was probably the biggest pain in the neck at times. Haggled on the price of having my mechanic fix my car because I knew my shock's only cost $12 each and he was trying to make me pay $50 each but that's how I learned.
I've worked customer service in one way or another for the greater part of my life. I learned to take the good and the bad and when I got home at night.... everything that happened that day just slid right out of my mind.
Tom, Thanks for the feedback. Okay, I understand about the ebay thing. Your making me an offer and I'm telling you what I can sell it at elsewhere. You can't give me that price.
On the other hand, you the dealer are quoting me a price from the graysheet. You are using that as a tool, so what would be wrong, as me as the customer, quoting the prices right back to you, or is it just the fact that I'm telling you what price *you* could sell it for.
You hit it right on the head with the end of your post where you wrote
<< <i>or is it just the fact that I'm telling you what price *you* could sell it for. >>
For me, that is the point that would annoy me. Using the Greysheet as a tool is perfectly legitimate and is available to both buyer and seller, although, if you ever read the Greysheet it does tell the reader that the prices are a guide for dealer-to-dealer transactions. Of course, it is simply a guide, that's all. I wouldn't like someone suggesting what I could sell a coin for because of the fact that it smacks of a pressure sales tactic to me and, more subtely, it infers that the prospective coin seller assumes to know my business and what I need to do in that business. Again, just my opinion.
<< <i>SarasotaFrank has unfortunately been exposed to primarily the type of person I would not want to deal with either as a collector or as a dealer. Hang in there, Frank, there are a lot of good people out there. >>
And I'll tell you, Frank is one of those good people. I just completed a deal with him on , what for me, was a pretty expensive coin and a gaping hole in my collection. Frank was very fair and honest and a true pro throughout the transaction. If you get a chance to deal with him...do it.
<< <i>My biggest problem that collectors do to us: slow pay. I know I'm not alone. If you need time-say so! We do. People think dealers make so much money they can wait to be paid. NOT TRUE. >>
I can appreciate what you are saying here, Laura. I just now got a check in the mail being paid for a show I played (music) a couple of months ago. The stress of wondering if I was going to get stiffed was irritating. Not to mention the wrench it threw into my budget. I just thought I'd bring this up, because I remembered you saying this earlier in the thread, and I just got the mail and the check was finally there. My heart dances.
TDN's traits apply equally to collector and dealer alike. No one owns the store on human nature. You're only recourse is to learn the game the best you can and know how to grade.
This has been a really enlightining thread. Thanks for all who have contributed.
It's taken me 10 years to figure out coin shows - dealers, forgive me for being a slow learner. I've finally figured out who to completely avoid, who to nod and say hello to without stopping and who to really spend time with. Since learning that, shows have become alot more fun. Now, it's the relationships that draw me to the show as much as the coins.
If a dealer treats you bad, just ignore them in the future. There are too many good dealers and collectors out there to let the bad apple minority ruin it for you. It's their loss.
I find the inside-out shirt story funny. I intentionally dress down when shopping for expensive things. It helps weed out the sales people who are interested only in the superficial. Folks who are nice to me in spite of my grubby attire are my kind of people and get my business.
Since many folks are bashing dealers, I would like to publicly thank Eagle Eye Rare coins, Angel Dees, Dave Schweitz and David Bowers for helping me along the way. Without their assistance (especially Rick Snow's) I wouldn't know beans about coins or about putting together a good collection.
Edit: Probably too nice a comment.....that should kill this thread dead
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
Lakesammman, I agree with you and I hoped the thread would not die as it has. Personally I was looking for more dealer insight instead of a "Do not do this". Some of us do not have a great deal of knowledge with dealers and shows, personally some of the items mentioned had absolutely nothing to do with my behavior. I asked some questions about approaching the dealer, haggling and some were answered here others off line.
How about the handling of dealer coins? What a customer should do if there are other customers waiting and they are hemming and hawing about a coin. Although I don't hem and haw over coins, should I mention the fact that I need a few minutes with the coin and tell the dealer he should feel free to help the next person? or does the dealer want to keep an eye on me with his coin to make sure I don't head for the hills with it.
Some of the stuff is elementary to me but after reading some of the dealer comments on the board, obviously some things are not elementary to everyone. Learn Us!
I think at the end of the thread, most of us will go away with a sense that they have learned something from the dealer but I also know customers and the people who deal with customers. There will always be two different personalities and sometimes they will not mesh. In my opinion, both customer and dealer need to take certain things with a grain of salt.
I can make a decision to not participate in a game I am ill-equipped to win.
Frank,
Despite what I wrote earlier, I hope that you don't give up on the hobby. I hope that you will have fun, and I hope that you find good dealers from whom to buy coins and friendly collectors with whom to share your war stories. Don't let the bad apples of the hobby and/or industry sour you on the Hobby of Kings!
Comments
I have only read the first post and not the others but I thank you for posting that. Most of the items listed I would not do.
How about this for a good dealer. Obviously a dealer is going to have regular customers. How about getting to know those regular customers, finding out what they collect and working with them. I told one of the guys I started going to that I was looking for Peace Dollars and he tried to sell me a Morgan and other new items he had in stock. I would much rather him say "Sorry, the Peace Dollars have become a popular item. Let me know what your looking for/grade/price range...etc and I will see what I can find for you."
Of course...then we might come across issues like you mentioned. The dealer could even suggest that you bring in what you have collected thus far so he had a better idea of what you are looking for.
My biggest pet peeve with collecting has to do with collectors/dealers/ebay. Why do people try to make their coin out to be something they are not. The coin might be G4 but they state it is VF20, it is AU58 but they say it's MS64...Which brings me to a point I want to address the dealers on:
Let's say I go to a dealer and is trying to sell me a coin, he believes the coin is a higher grade than I think it is. What would be the proper approach? Should I say something like "I'm not so sure, there appears to be a good deal of wear on the cheek and in the hair, which I would think would warrant that coin to be (ie AU50), What's your opinion". I don't have a great deal of experience with haggling like this but I often find myself just saying politely "no thanks". I passed over a coin I really liked and if I find myself in the position again, how should I handle the situation?
-Thanks,
Dave
<< <i>Great dealers abound. Jon at RCONH immediately comes to mind. >>
hands down, the best dealer I have ever encountered. It might cost you an extra percent or two, but no doubt you are buying quality and great service when you deal with Jon.
<< <i>Let's say I go to a dealer and is trying to sell me a coin, he believes the coin is a higher grade than I think it is. What would be the proper approach? Should I say something like "I'm not so sure, there appears to be a good deal of wear on the cheek and in the hair, which I would think would warrant that coin to be (ie AU50), What's your opinion". I don't have a great deal of experience with haggling like this but I often find myself just saying politely "no thanks". I passed over a coin I really liked and if I find myself in the position again, how should I handle the situation? >>
Dave,
I had a similar situation described above and I told teh dealer I would by it for the stated price if it got it slabbed. I even paid for the grading fee, as I did not think it should be his responsibility to do so. If the coin is not in a slab, there is a reason.
I think you're missing my point. I do not dispute that there are scumbags out there. There may even be many scumbags. And, that's the point... It ain't right that Frank, et al, gets screwed by the scumbags. But, it's a big bad world out there. There should be no argument about that. Given that realization, it is still Frank's personal responsibility exercise all due care in his affairs.
The woman who got assaulted was certainly victimized. There is no way to sugar-coat that! But, ask any woman and she'll tell you that she should still conduct herself with all due awareness. No, we should not punish the victim. But, the potential victims should still do what they can to be on guard simply because we don't live in Utopia!
As for getting over myself... when was I under myself?
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay
The point of this thread is that once you've found a GOOD dealer, what actions on YOUR part will enable the relationship to thrive. What actions on YOUR part will stop a relationship dead in its tracks. This is not intended to be a thread where we talk about the ripoff artists in the world and say what jerks all dealers are by association. It simply ain't true.
Again, this is all secondhand, but I know that each of those items has happened to Legend in the last year. And I know for a fact they aren't ripoff artists. In fact, I've seen them send extra money after the fact to people that sold them a deal where they made more than they expected! A little different philosophy at work than the scumbag who will throw it back in your face about how much he made on your coin.....
I have had to fight to hold on to my joy of the hobby at times. Certain experiences have tested it--stretched it, strained it and otherwise drained it. But, as someone once said (and I have quoted here before) "All good things stand moment by moment on the razor's edge of danger, and must be fought for."
Successful transactions with any human in any area are pretty much contingent on a base level of respect being shown by each party. I know in the real world this does not always happen. But, in my world, I try to make sure that it does.
Carl
<< <i>Given that realization, it is still Frank's personal responsibility exercise all due care in his affairs.
EVP >>
exactly. Given the fact that this is a hobby, as opposed to a profession, for me, I fall into the categiry of knowledgeable collector, but by no menas "expert". I am buying from experts, who have a distinct advantage, therefore, I can either advance my level of knowledge, which will take a considerable investment of time, or I can make a decision to not participate in a game I am ill-equipped to win.
I take responsibility, and choose the latter.
Have a nice day, David
Russ is right on the mark with the Good/Bad/Ugly, you get that with both dealers and customers.
Frank brings up some good points. I recently dealt with him in purchasing a few coins and he was very gracious and we chewed the fat a bit. I was surprised about the reaction he received from voicing his opinion.
Again, I don't have the vast experience that many of you have but I know of one dealer who goes by graysheet value when selling coins but at the same time he often grades the coins higher than what they really are. On the same token, when it comes to buying from a customer, he doesn't go by graysheet value and will offer the lowest amount the customer will accept. I have overheard him a few times stating a certain coin would not sell or he already has a few in inventory... at one point I was bringing in some coins to see if he was interested in them. He totally low balled me on the value and as such, I took some off the table. I did sell him some coins, again at low ball prices but he made me a good deal the previous time I was there.
Would it be a total insult, after given a price ask him if he could do better? and then point out that you could get 2x-3x-4x as much selling on ebay? Or point to the graysheet prices and say "According to the graysheet 'bid', the coins are worth $270. You could turn around and sell them at the 'ask' for $350".
What about when a dealer misrepresents a coin's condition and price. How as a customer should I handle that situation? Let's say I come home and my friend who works for TGCGS (The Greatest Coin Grading Service) tells me that coin was over graded and I was still overcharge at that grade. (I'm just using this as an example) Do i have any recourse with the dealer? or is that something I should discuss with the dealer prior to buying the coin. Or am I (bleep) out of luck because I should have known how to grade and price the coin
I hope none of this sounded like criticism towards dealers. There seems to be good discussion but there seems to be a tad bit of mud slinging. Let the Dealers educate us customers and hopefully in return, us customers can educate the dealers.
-Dave
<< <i>Would it be a total insult, after given a price ask him if he could do better? and then point out that you could get 2x-3x-4x as much selling on ebay? Or point to the graysheet prices and say "According to the graysheet 'bid', the coins are worth $270. You could turn around and sell them at the 'ask' for $350". >>
in relation to offering his coins for sale. My take on it is that not only is it not an insult to ask if the dealer can do better, but, it is part of the negotiation for many folks. I don't know that any level-headed dealer would have a problem with that. As for pointing out that they could be sold for x amount more on ebay, well, I don't like that. I would probably retort to a person stating that that they should simply keep the coins and sell them on ebay themselves so that they could realize the greater profits. I also don't have a problem with pointing to Greysheet values but would not take very kindly to having a resale price suggested to me. This is just my opinion and I consider myself one of the easiest going people to deal with when it comes to coins.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I would never do that! but people do attempt those type of things to get a better price.
I wanted to add a couple of things (not directed at your Scarsdale)
In respect to some things that Frank mentioned. Some people pressed the issue that he should leave the hobby as from what he stated and due to some of the bad dealings he had. In retrospect, that sounds silly because if your a dealer who is so sick of your customers...why are you in the business?
Whether a customer is good, bad or ugly... they also help you pay the bills. It would be great to have all customers who know every single rule ever created by a dealer or who knows the in's and out's of coin ethics etc..etc.. but you guys know that just isn't possible. There is the little kid who picks his nose and all he wants to know about is all those coins and why a penny is worth $10. Perhaps by being his "lil buddy", a coin collector is born. Perhaps that poor slob who is bald, wearing shorts with the dark socks who is wearing his shirt inside out just needs a bit of guidance. Perhaps he is being a pain in the arse because he knows no better. Be personable, you don't have to be his "best lil buddy" but perhaps you can turn him into a collector who comes to your show wearing his Armani Suit
There are two instances I can remember as a kid. Being a pain in the arse to the guy at the electronics store. I asked him "What's this, What's that, what does that do"... and to this day I can tell you most every frequency the airports, NOAA Weather Radio, Local Police and Fire departments use. And then when I first got a car, I actually hung out with my mechanic and learned the in's and out's of automechanics and even worked with him at one point. I was probably the biggest pain in the neck at times. Haggled on the price of having my mechanic fix my car because I knew my shock's only cost $12 each and he was trying to make me pay $50 each
I've worked customer service in one way or another for the greater part of my life. I learned to take the good and the bad and when I got home at night.... everything that happened that day just slid right out of my mind.
Well, that's my 2 cents.
-Dave
PLEASE DON'T TAKE THE CHAIRS FROM MY TABLE TO LOOK AT THE GUYS STUFF NEXT DOOR!
Why do people do that? Don't they know thats rude? I'm VERY territorial about my chairs!
Laura Sperber
lsperber1@hotmail.com
www.legendcoin.com
JUST SAY NO TO WANNABES! They lurk and prey on unwitting collectors in chatrooms!
Thanks for the feedback. Okay, I understand about the ebay thing. Your making me an offer and I'm telling you what I can sell it at elsewhere. You can't give me that price.
On the other hand, you the dealer are quoting me a price from the graysheet. You are using that as a tool, so what would be wrong, as me as the customer, quoting the prices right back to you, or is it just the fact that I'm telling you what price *you* could sell it for.
I Appreciate the response.
-Dave
<< <i>or is it just the fact that I'm telling you what price *you* could sell it for. >>
For me, that is the point that would annoy me. Using the Greysheet as a tool is perfectly legitimate and is available to both buyer and seller, although, if you ever read the Greysheet it does tell the reader that the prices are a guide for dealer-to-dealer transactions. Of course, it is simply a guide, that's all. I wouldn't like someone suggesting what I could sell a coin for because of the fact that it smacks of a pressure sales tactic to me and, more subtely, it infers that the prospective coin seller assumes to know my business and what I need to do in that business. Again, just my opinion.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
<< <i>SarasotaFrank has unfortunately been exposed to primarily the type of person I would not want to deal with either as a collector or as a dealer. Hang in there, Frank, there are a lot of good people out there. >>
And I'll tell you, Frank is one of those good people. I just completed a deal with him on , what for me, was a pretty expensive coin and a gaping hole in my collection. Frank was very fair and honest and a true pro throughout the transaction. If you get a chance to deal with him...do it.
<< <i>My biggest problem that collectors do to us: slow pay. I know I'm not alone. If you need time-say so! We do. People think dealers make so much money they can wait to be paid. NOT TRUE. >>
I can appreciate what you are saying here, Laura. I just now got a check in the mail being paid for a show I played (music) a couple of months ago. The stress of wondering if I was going to get stiffed was irritating. Not to mention the wrench it threw into my budget.
I just thought I'd bring this up, because I remembered you saying this earlier in the thread, and I just got the mail and the check was finally there. My heart dances.
Carl
roadrunner
It's taken me 10 years to figure out coin shows - dealers, forgive me for being a slow learner. I've finally figured out who to completely avoid, who to nod and say hello to without stopping and who to really spend time with. Since learning that, shows have become alot more fun. Now, it's the relationships that draw me to the show as much as the coins.
If a dealer treats you bad, just ignore them in the future. There are too many good dealers and collectors out there to let the bad apple minority ruin it for you. It's their loss.
I find the inside-out shirt story funny. I intentionally dress down when shopping for expensive things. It helps weed out the sales people who are interested only in the superficial. Folks who are nice to me in spite of my grubby attire are my kind of people and get my business.
Since many folks are bashing dealers, I would like to publicly thank Eagle Eye Rare coins, Angel Dees, Dave Schweitz and David Bowers for helping me along the way. Without their assistance (especially Rick Snow's) I wouldn't know beans about coins or about putting together a good collection.
Edit: Probably too nice a comment.....that should kill this thread dead
I agree with you and I hoped the thread would not die as it has. Personally I was looking for more dealer insight instead of a "Do not do this". Some of us do not have a great deal of knowledge with dealers and shows, personally some of the items mentioned had absolutely nothing to do with my behavior. I asked some questions about approaching the dealer, haggling and some were answered here others off line.
How about the handling of dealer coins? What a customer should do if there are other customers waiting and they are hemming and hawing about a coin. Although I don't hem and haw over coins, should I mention the fact that I need a few minutes with the coin and tell the dealer he should feel free to help the next person? or does the dealer want to keep an eye on me with his coin to make sure I don't head for the hills with it.
Some of the stuff is elementary to me but after reading some of the dealer comments on the board, obviously some things are not elementary to everyone. Learn Us!
I think at the end of the thread, most of us will go away with a sense that they have learned something from the dealer but I also know customers and the people who deal with customers. There will always be two different personalities and sometimes they will not mesh. In my opinion, both customer and dealer need to take certain things with a grain of salt.
-Dave
Frank,
Despite what I wrote earlier, I hope that you don't give up on the hobby. I hope that you will have fun, and I hope that you find good dealers from whom to buy coins and friendly collectors with whom to share your war stories. Don't let the bad apples of the hobby and/or industry sour you on the Hobby of Kings!
Regards,
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com