Finally tracked down an 1869 Two Center for my raw set, grade opinions?

Russ

You know, it's actually pretty hard to find the later date Two Cent pieces without problems. I'm grading this one a Very Fine. Am I close?

Russ, NCNE

kieferscoins

Nice coin. A solid VF-20.

Cameron Kiefer

LanLord

I would have given it a f15, the We is a bit weak and the horizontal lines in the shield have a flat spot. But it's a nice looking piece. How far along on the set are you?

Russ

LanLord,

For the raw set I only need the 1872.

Russ, NCNE

Draco

EF 45 or maybe au50, cleaned. It's a nice coin that doesn't get the respect that it deserves.

Russ

Draco,

It hasn't been cleaned. Where are you getting that?

Russ, NCNE

Draco

obverse at 4-5 o'clock position looks like dirt around the arrow, leaves and edge. I have a few pieces like that. One I sent in and it came back in a body bag as cleaned.

Rus, do you have any proofs?

Russ

Draco,

It is dirt. Real dirt that got there from being used way back when. The kind of dirt frequently found on real, un-screwed with old coins. I don't know why you'd get a body-bag for "cleaning" because a coin had some honest dirt on it.

Nope, don't have any proofs in these, just circulation strikes.

Russ, NCNE

originalisbest

I feel you're on target with a grade of VF, Russ. Draco, the verdigris you mention seeing on both Russ' piece and yours can exist on a piece whether it's been cleaned or not.

mr1931S

Doesn't look cleaned to me,Russ.Appears to be vf or so?This is a nice example of the date for inclusion in a circulated set of these,in my opinion.

Draco

Honest dirt? I'm not going to drag this out because this is your raw collection and the point is moot.

Verdigris? I see no such thing on that coin. It's the darkened areas around the leaf/edge and other spots. Look closely.

I'm at work, but I'll post a picture of the BB'ed PCGS specimen when I get home.

coppercoins

I grade the coin at VF20. It has some weakness in the strike that cannot be attributed to wear, thus not affecting the grade - more than the simple presence or absence of detail must be considered to properly grade a coin. If you will notice, the leaves on the reverse show only VF wear. Secondarily there is no sign that I can see that the coin has been cleaned. Just because PCGS cannot recognize dirt doesn't mean that all coins exhibiting similar characteristics have to be pre-labeled as cleaned.

Russ, it's a nice coin - I like it and would buy it at VF money, hands down. You made a nice pick and took good photos of it. You might want to take a loupe to it and check for any obvious signs of an RPD - there are a few listed for the date.

originalisbest

Having looked closely at the darkened areas you mention - that's "verdigris". And it can be present on both an old copper that's been cleaned, as well as one that has not been.

When it comes to circulated copper, it acquires a brown tone that, once cleaned off, will retone to one degree or another but never will acquire its true uncleaned brown appearance again. That's the way to determine cleaned from uncleaned with circ copper, not the presence/absence of verdigris.

Russ

Every time I post one of these, I learn new stuff. That's the great thing about this forum! Thanks!

Russ, NCNE

mbbiker

Russ that is a really nice 2 center. I would pay strong vf money for that one. These are really hard to come by untampered with and way undervalued right now. Nice find!!

Cam40

30
Nice

MacCoin

not a bad looking dice xf 45 it maybe clean but a million years ago

BillJones

Russ, your coin is a classic VF-20. In today's market coins like this and worse get called EF, which is ridiculous. I would not be too concerned about the dirt, but I would caution you that if you remove it, you might find shiny spots under it.

The 1872 is a bear to find in a business strike grade. Most of the coins that are available are sloppily made Proofs with mediocre luster. When I did exactly what you are doing now (form a high circulated grade EF-AU 2 cent set) more than 20 years I ended up with a Proof 1872. I saw a couple of 1872s with EF sharpness, but they had problems (corrosion spots) that led me not to buy them.

The 1873 is worse. There is very little price break for worn examples because they hardly exist. Therefore it only makes sense to buy that coin in Proof, which costs at least a couple thousand dollars.

Good luck with your set. It’s the type of thing than only purest collectors do for the love the hobby and the hunt.

au58

Without the verdigris, it is a better than average VF, at least 25. With the verdigris, net is 20. Decent coin.

dorkkarl

guess i'm on the conservative side. solid vf-detail, but too much corrosion, net f-12. russ, that coin may have active pvc. a bath may be called for.

K S

Russ

Karl,

There's no corrosion or PVC on the coin.

Russ, NCNE

Draco

It's amazing what a decent monitor can do. I have to stop trying to grade coins from work. The verdigris looked completly black on my machine at work and I incorrectly assumed it to be dirt.