The "inexperienced" renting a table

BigD5

I wanted to get some feedback on something I witnessed at one of my local shows this weekend. I touched upon it briefly in a thread talking about the Nashua N.H. show. A couple rented a table to sell off someones collection (Dad's?). Now they obviously put in some time, and received SOME advice as to how items should be priced. Most everything was already labeled/graded in the old 2x2's, so it seemed as though they priced most items according to Greysheet, relying on the grades assigned the coins from the various original sellers. Some blatantly overgraded, some ok. I would estimate the collection was probably worth $100k, maybe more. I'm still waiting for a couple of replies with more details, as I arrived at the show a little late
There were bust everything, in 2x2's and vinyl sleeves, notebooks full with nickels, dimes, half dimes, everything really, sorry no slabbed ultra grade moderns here
Well, this couple set up, and put everything out for sale. I was told it was a free for all with a lot of the dealers. 3 rows back, waiting to take a peak. I imagine these folks were extremely happy with how things turned out. A local auction co. owner/representative wasn't too happy, and let them know this. He was a bit rude to them, which was unfortunate, but maybe there was some history there.
What it looks like now, is that all the good stuff was gone in a heartbeat, and all that's really left is the problem pieces, that they couldn't detect, the "junk".....lower grade material that they priced according to the sheets, that doesn't trade for sheet money, normally, and some odds and ends kind of stuff. I would imagine they will almost have to give the rest of the material away, so to speak, as the demand won't be real high.
As I said, I'm sure they are happy with their results, but they probably could have fared better by going with the experienced auction company (my opinion), as he/they would have been able to filter in different "lots" of the undesirable material with some of the desirable material, to make it ALL go away, and realize more money in the end.
I went through the notebooks etc. for a 1/2 hour or so, and a few dealers came by to pick up their "bags", with checks in hand. There were some impressive amounts, and I was only there for a short time. Would anyone have taken the same approach? I thought their decision to rent a table at the local show was a bit "brave", and risky. Again, I'm sure they are happy with their take, but I'm also sure they left money behind that could have been there, and now have the leftovers of a substantial collection to try and find a home for. If anyone was there and has more information or details about any of this, by all means please jump in. Again, I arrived a bit late, and didn't get ALL the details of how these folks arrived at renting a table.
Any thoughts?

Outhaul

Darin,

I only ran in and out to pick something up. I certainly would like to sift through the dregs. Do you have a contact?

As an aside, if they got what they priced everything at then they can't complain. Not knowing you left "money on the table" is certainly better than knowing that you screwed yourself.

With regard to the auctioneer, screw him too...he's probably just pissed because they wouldn't pay his vig for doing an auction for them. He was also probably pissed because everyone clamoring for this guy's coins was another 10% - 15% he was not going to make. What money they left on the table was probably saved in auction fees.

Cheers,

Bob

BillJones

I got to the show at about 8:30, and it was already too late to find much. I saw some of the material that dealers bought at the tail end. It was not my kind of stuf for the most part. There were a lot of problem pieces and at lot of whizzed and severely cleaned stuff. The coins they thought were the best were actually pretty bad. There was a 1901-S quarter in Good polished. There were coins labeled and priced as Unc., which were nowhere near that. They did not have a light at the table so that you could not see the material well, and they did not control the people who were pawing through the books. The chances for theft where high.

In short if you inherit a collection, do your self a favor and have professional take a look at it. It might even pay you to pay him for his time. That way you will know what you have got, and what is a fair price for it.

Coulport

Saw the same thing attempeted only on a smaller scale.
Doctor dies and widow and brother in law rent a table at a show.
Dealers buy all the better stuff at set-up.
The couple spent 3 days at the show trying to sell the public the rest.
They actually did a second show to sell the rest to no avail.
Finally dumped the remainders to a show circuit dealer cause they didn't trust the local types.

People are funny animals.

asnooker

I'm sure people that do this have a very good reason. They may heard more than one horror story of cheating and families being taken advantage of by some crooked dealer. I know one of those stories myself. This is why I am teaching my Grandson everything I can about my collection. I want at least one person in the family to know coins and their values. I am also going to tell him who he can trust and who to avoid.

kranky

asnooker, could you share your story about someone being taken advantage of by a crooked dealer? You don't have to name names, but knowing the circumstances could possibly be useful to someone.

UncleJoe

How about this little tidbit posted in a thread on this board by a prominent coin dealer:

...a coin dealer in the early 1970s ran ads in the LA Times offering to buy silver. An elderly couple brought in an original roll of cherry BU 1930 Standing Liberty quarters. The dealer paid them melt for the coins. Did he do anything wrong???

Is there a question here?

Joe.

greghansen

I can understand the thinking of some people that want to feel more in 'control' of the disposition process. It may be true..and they may even acknowledge...that they are not maximizing their final return, but to them the feeling of having more control may be worth it.

sinin1

I am sure the "inexperienced" left some money on the table, but how much? Some of the early dealers who new the series/grades probably did very well.

I am sure the table renters were happy as well, they got money right away, rather than 2-4 months from now with an auction company.

I have no idea how much overgraded/problem coins are left.

I have seen people selling on eBay that claim to be in this situation, although many times, I think they know what they have and purposely hype/overgrade their estate deal.

Clankeye

Maybe these people had the time of their life doing this. Maybe they looked at it as a unique experience. Like sky diving, or going on a rafting trip. Something to tell their friends about. I would bet they had a real ball park figure of what they would be satisfied with money-wise, and probably weren't going to sweat each and every left over coin if they came in around their goal. That's conjecture on my part.

I really don't have any sympathy for the auction company guy. It's their families collection. Someone in their camp put out the money and time to put it together and if they want to disperse it their way and be actively involved that is their right. And they should be able to do it without a bunch of attitude being thrown at them, like they invaded someone's private party.

Squeezing every last cent of value out of the collection may not have been the whole point for them. It could have been a fun experience. Think of the work they must have done to at least even find grey sheet levels, contact and rent a bourse space... took some prep. Maybe they looked at it as an adventure.

Clankeye

UncleJoe

Clankeye, excellent point.

I read a book that asked if you bought a stock for $10. and you sold it for $40. how much did you make?

The book's answer was that you lost $10. because the stock went to $50. and then back to $40. before you sold it!!!

It is a matter of perspective (I do not subscribe to the above example) and it's your own motives that should dictate what is "right" for you.

Joe.

BigD5

As far as the theories that this couple was having fun.........it didn't seem that way. Who knows when the day was done, but at the time, I would say stressed was a better word.
The "auction guy" is a nice enough guy, and probably is a bit miffed that he didn't get the chance to sell the collection, and is probably upset at a missed oppurtunity. I think the "couple", and the auctioneer may have had preliminary discussions at one time. I don't know that for sure, but it seemed that way.
Anyhow, I believe the auctioneer could have helped this couple with this particular collection, as a lot of the pieces were problem pieces, or had minor problems. The auctioneer's expertise in arranging lots so that ALL of the coins end up sold, could have been very beneficial. After looking through what was left, believe me, they are going to have a hard time losing a lot of the material there. It's priced out at Greysheet (approximately), and no one is going to give them close to those numbers for most of that stuff.

eagle7

That is a real sad story about the dealer paying melt for a cherry roll of 1930 SLQ's. It happens to folks lots, but especially old folks. Yes the dealer did something wrong. It's called stealing. Things have a way of becoming even. The gears grind slow, but they grind. There will always be a payback time. My suggestion would be to explain what the coins may be worth, approximately, and offer to do all the work associated with grading and selling for cost plus 15 percent. That would be fair and honest. As far as setting up your own table, I dont think it would be a good idea for all the reasons pointed out in the other posts to this thread.

Clankeye

Darin--

All you say I am sure is true. And I mean no disrespect to the "auction guy." I can understand a professional being upset by a missed opportunity to do something in what they consider a better manner. Once they embarked on that course though, I think you would just have to accept it. Like you said, maybe some behind the scenes things are playing out here that are not available to the rest of us.
I could imagine these people thinking what they were doing might be fun, and then finding when they are right in the middle of it, that it is indeed stressful, and that many hidden pitfalls await. But history is full of people cheerfully riding into the gates of Hell, unaware of what awaits them.

Clankeye

goose3

it would appear that these people did their homework on the coins and opted not to take the easy way out and just dump them on someone for a crazy amount.

That, or maybe they paid someone to do their homework for them.

BillJones

I know that some dealers do take advantage of inexperienced people. At the same time I think that some might be casting unwarranted dispersions on some dealers just because they won’t pay “bid” for raw collector grade coins.

I can tell you from personal experience that most common date circulated grade, run of the mill collector coins are not worth “bid” on the wholesale level. When you put these coins out, many collectors expect to pay “bid” for them, and it can take as long as a year to sell this type of material at fair prices. Therefore a dealer has to figure in the cost of slabbing the coins that are worth slabbing and the cost of carrying this material in inventory for an extended period of time.

Coins are not like stocks on the American and New York Stock Exchanges. Just because there are prices in the newspaper does not mean that you can run out and sell coins for the prices that are printed there right away if you can sell them at all.

shirohniichan

I doubt many people enjoy selling inherited collections. To most selling a coin collection is like selling a car-- you put an ad in the paper and show it to wholesalers in the hope that you'll get a decent price.

As a way to see how earnest people are in their claims their coins are worth at least ask prices, you can offer to sell them similar common stuff at bid.

DesertLizard

I don't see what all the fuss is over the problem pieces not selling. I am willing to bet they got good money for the good stuff given the crowd of people and that was probably 95% of the total value realized. Who cares about the junk that did not sell....for good reason.

As for the spurned auctioneer, maybe he was trying to take advantage of them? Clearly there was a tremendous demand for their collection. Sour grapes on his part! And they sold to a dealer he/she would have offered 50% of GS bid, so they came out ahead.

Crashtestfixer

reckon in retrospect all of the above +dab of tales told, resulted in what went down. too many nasty stories of coins given-away rather than sold. ++++ for the folks bold enough ta do it. end result-they controlled the outcome be it whatever.

mile high opinion only