Stiffed by a board member - Decided to reveal board member ID in 1st post

Outhaul

I hope not, but a long time board member has still not responded to my e-mails or PM's (even though he's lurked after they were sent). He got my half of the trade but never came across with his.

My feeling is if there's something wrong, just contact me and let me know. If I'm ignored, I just get angry and start throwing names around like, deadbeat, thief, scumbag, etc.

I certainly hope this isn't the case.

Anyone else feel this way?

Cheers,

Bob

The board member is Goldenpony. He still has not responded to my e-mails or PM's and, according to the post office, the package I sent him arrived within three days of my shipping it. I guess I'll just have to eat this one.

rkfish

Bob,

I hope things work out for you in this deal......but if not, I certainly would like to know who the "board member" is and what the circumstances are/were.

Good luck!

DCAMFranklin

Now here is a situation I find intriguing. Why do Members feel some sense of loyalty to fellow Members that causes them to not name the guilty party? No one seems to feel a need to protect the other party when discussing an Ebay transaction. Yet, when a transaction occurs between fellow Members, the accusing and usually "wronged" party will discuss the transaction, but without naming the other party!

If anything, I would think we would be able to discuss these situations MORE openly, in that we have some working knowledge of one another. We should feel a greater sense of trust when dealing with fellow Members. And we should feel a greater sense of disappointment and disillusionment when a transaction with a fellow Member goes bad!

When a transaction on ebay, with someone a Member doesn't know, goes bad, most Members don't hesitate to name the seller, point out their on-going auctions, slash, bash and namecall. That Ebay seller usually knows nothing of this Forum and is not allowed the opportunity to defend themselves. Yet, when a Member deals with another Member and the deal "goes south", then some Members feel the situation should be handled in "private". Somehow this seems completely illogical. On this Forum BOTH parties would have an opportunity to detail their side of the story and there could be meaningful discussion about the situation. Hopefully, we could be helpful to both parties.

My question of fellow Members is this. If it is SO important to warn newbies and fellow Members of bad sellers on Ebay, then WHY is it so important to protect bad fellow Members when they make a bad transaction(s)? Are they IMMUNE from ridicule for no other reason than they post on this Forum? I look forward to your responses.

Outhaul

DCAM,

You make perfect sense. I don't understand either. It may possibly stem from the fact that the forum is a bit more personal than eBay as many of us have actually met or spoke with each other on the phone. The eBay seller is usually anonymous.

While I respect your opinion, I will reserve the right to post the offending member's name after a few more members weigh-in on the matter.

Cheers,

Bob

MacCoin

that sucks. I myself have been burn by board members I have friends board members that have been burned by members. I have lost patience with deadbeats, thiefs, scumbags. I say name names for the rest of us don't make the same misstake.

Russ

Bob,

How much time has elapsed?

Russ, NCNE

Outhaul

Russ,

I last had contact with him on 29 November. Since then, he's not responded to several PM's and e-mails. This, in itself, doesn't seem like a long time, but a few of the PM's were sent between 11/30 and 12/11 and according to his profile he last logged in on 12 December which means he should have received my previous PM's and chose to ignore them.

I guess the reason I'm holding out naming names is because, with my luck, the day I do, I'll get home and the package will be waiting. Then I'll really feel like a fool. Maybe I just expect others to be as prompt as I am. Maybe he saw how much circulated silver has increased and has backed out of the deal without telling me. Bottom line is; I won't get pissed if you contact me and tell me there's a problem, but I hate to be ignored. I try to give everyone the benefit of the doubt.

Cheers,

Bob

1jester

Someone's getting quite a few second chances. I hope he comes clean.

braddick

The eBay vs CU Member is an interesting delema. Maybe it's simply easier to stab someone in the back then it is to face them and stab them in the heart.

MacCoin

maybe this post will work for you and the guy is just slow. I hope so. but with my dealings with them a scumbag is a scumbag member or not. most member will do anything to make the deal right but you have that 1% who just like to screw people over.

my3cents

Bob,

2 and 1/2 weeks is plenty of time. If you did a trade and you both agreed to ship the items the next day and you did and he/she didn't, then you have been wronged. Ignoring your PM's on top of that is only adding insult to injury.

Post the name.

Mike

Outhaul

Howdy Pat,

I've only ever left one neg on eBay, not that others didn't deserve them, and never received one. There is usually a reasonable explanation for a delay and I'm hoping this is the case. I guess I'm just using the forum to allow the member an opportunity to make good.

Cheers,

Bob

BTW...I have a couple of good candidates for a worst Morgan/Peace $ registry set

Outhaul

Hey Mike,

We've done a bit-o-biz together, as I have with many board members. I'd like to think I'm prompt and reliable. My reputation for being that way AND fair is important to me.

Cheers,

Bob

my3cents

I don't think you have a thing to be concerned about. Your reputation is sparkling here on this end

And for anyone else - Bob's the guy you WANT to mess up a deal with-- you can be sure he'll make it right for BOTH of you.

braddick

Bob, you're being fair in waiting it out. Possibly he'll see this thread and kick it into high geer.

In the meantime,
I've found that throwing someone down off of an eBay auction is easy. The Seller, right or wrong!- isn't here to defend himself so the story is usually one sided.
There was an incident, right here, where the eBay Seller was notified of the complaint and thread that had been brought up against him.. He then had a chance (and took the time to do so) to join this forum and state his case. The Thread, at the time, was 60+ with the originator berating the Seller with mulitiple accusations.
Once the 'new member' stated his case we ALL saw the full story and of course the thread was then quickly burried.

Attacking someone we know here, directly on this forum though is risky and therefor not as much fun, I'd imagine.

But, getting back to your original post: wait it out. Most everyone here is honorable.
It's better to trust too much and occassionally get burned then it is to not trust at all.
Life's too short to be that miserable of a human being.

Bear

Braddick - You have spoken words of wisdom and common sense. There are a number of reasons for

a delay and non response, ill health of the person or family member, or other emergency requiring an

indevidual to be out of town . Why a person would ignore a PM and yet log in onthe Forum baffles

me, but better to wait a while longer then be embarrassed. Patience is always a worthwhile vurtue.

pmh1nic

Outhaul

I think the better tactic would have been a thread saying "Has anyone heard from so and so." I've haven't seen him on the board lately and sent a couple of e-mails and PM's but got no response. Depending on the responses from others (he's in the hospital or his wife just died or that deadbeat stiffed me, etc.) you could then leak out the details.

michael

sorry to hear of it
i hope you can get it resolved quickly and there is some plasible reason why no contact

good luck and keep us informed on here

sincerely michael

in our dealings you have really been prompt and a gentleman!!!!!!!!

cosmicdebris

After 2 1/2 weeks and no reply something ain't right. If he had the time to lurk on the boards he had the time to at least PM back if there are any problems.

agentjim007

you bring this up now you need to name names. Some of us trade honorably with other members and we don't need people guessing wrong to who the culprit is.

LucyBop

OutHaul, you already named this person once on the boards...... Seems that he has had enough time to respond.

Twowood

Did you try calling him on the phone?
No answer at all to your emails is suspicious.I'd try to track him down and confront him on the phone. Twowood

keets

.........please excuse me if i repeat something already covered in a reply, i just went right to it without reading the whole thread.

the best reason for not naming names at the outset with something like this is that once the personality is known all objective opinion is also gone. that is also why the eBay arguement isn't a good one-----the nature of that venue tells us all who the offender is. over here, the best way to handle something of this nature is to solicit advice or previous personal experience of a similar nature. that can only be done objectively with the offender remaining anonymous to prevent bias from clouding replies. and i've seen it happen over and over. once the person who "stiffed" you is known, those who like that person will defend and those that don't will assail. human nature, nothing more or less.

my advice outhaul, provide us with enough detail of the transgression as possible without divulging an identity, take a look at pertinent replies and use the PM function with members you trust. it's easy to indulge the instinct that tells you to retaliate cause you were wronged. it's a bit more difficult to resolve something with civility.

good luck.

al h.

greghansen

Something definately smells bad if he/she has received your end of the deal and you still haven't even heard from them. I like the suggestion from an earlier poster that suggested a thread titled "Has anyone hear from _____", indicating simply that you have some unfinished business with them and are attempting to get in touch with the member. Hope it works out and hope there is an innocent explanation for the delay.

LucyBop

I disagree with Keets, though he does make some very good points and I understand his position. This person has avoided your emails and pm's and knows very well what is going on. You are correct that he was last here on DEC. 12th. He very easily could have answered your pm and gave a good reason for why he has not fulfilled his end of the deal. He hasn't and if he loses his integrity he did it to himself. I personally would never want to deal with such a person. Some members have sent me coins for inspection and approval, such as JR, I told him right away I wanted the coin but it would take a week to pay, a week passed and this Kitty made that payment!

There is no excuse what-so-ever for not contacting you and asking for more time or atleast saying something.

Russ

<< <i>the best reason for not naming names at the outset with something like this is that once the personality is known all objective opinion is also gone. that is also why the eBay arguement isn't a good one >>



Bingo, Keets.

Russ, NCNE

DCAMFranklin

Braddick- You are absolutely correct. It is real easy to "stab someone in the back" when the other person has no opportunity to tell their side of the story and defend themselves from the allegations. It is quite another to make allegations when you know the other party will have the opportunity to tell their side of the story.

You also make mention of a thread right here where a seller was made aware of the allegations being made about his transaction and then being invited to join the Forum, so he could defend himself. I'm not sure if this is the exact thread you referred to, however, it is surely representative of such a situation.

LINK

As you said, once the seller had the opportunity to tell his side of the story, Members saw the situation for what it was and the thread came to an end.

A bum is a bum, whether they are a Member of this Forum, or not!

TomB

Unless this is another member with whom you have had a problem, you have already named the person. Didn't you start a thread about this subject and in this thread didn't you name the party this past week and then bring the thread to the top two or three times so that it would be seen? I remember who it was but will not mention it here in case this is a second bad deal you have had.

LucyBop

I was assuming that it was the same member referred to in the previous thread as mentioned by TomB.... I didn't think it could be a totally seperate deal.......

agentjim007

Well I missed the "who it was" detail. I can tell you from someone who doesn't know who were talking about a response like Keet's make me think it's him. Are you the deadbeat Keets? Oh, now you see how some may jump to conclusions when half a story is leaked.

Outhaul

Al, et al (no pun intended),

I did try the "Has anyone seen or heard" thing and got zippo. In retrospect, I should have editted those threads out before starting this one.

Al...You hit the nail right on the head. Don't want to trash anyone unneccessarily, it only causes bad feelings. Guess it's the waiting game now. Got a notice of insured mail delivered today, crossed my fingers, went to the PO, but it wasn't what I expected. To the contrary, I did a trade with Beorn on Saturday afternoon. Today I received his coin and he PM'd me letting me know he received mine! Record time!

Cheers,

Bob

Clankeye

<< <i>I did a trade with Beorn >>



Beorn is great to deal with! And I will state unequivocally that Keets ain't no deadbeat.

Clankeye

Outhaul

Hey Clank,

Just got a beautiful Maine commem in a PCGS MS-62 holder. Real nice candidate for crack-out! Beorn is a straight-shooter. Haven't had the pleasure of dealing with Jim yet, but from following his posts, I wouldn't expect anything less from him either.

Cheers,

Bob

Dog97

DCAMFranklin it's what you call yellow belly back stabbing scared to look somebody else in the eye like a man.
I get a kick out of the members that post somebody else's auction making fun of misspellings, the price they are asking, wrong uploaded pictures, wrongly accussing their coins of being cleaned, fake, shipping charges etc etc etc etc......
But when somebody makes a post about one of their beloved dealers these lapdogs start crying personal attack personal attack no fair that needs to be discussed in PM etc etc etc.........
I for one would like to hear about the deadbeat & ripp-off members here on these forums because I personally know that 30 or 40 are really great & outstanding people and can be trusted but there are 8,050 other members that I don't know from adams tomcat.
If somebody on this board burns me I'll post their name address telephone # and neked picts of their wife and I expect the same for me if I ever shank somebody.

agentjim007

I won't burn ya, but I would like to see those neked pics.

LucyBop

<< <i>neked picts of their wife >>




YIKES! Lucy will never burn you..... When she sez something, I'll deliever!

DCAMFranklin

Sorry Keets, I couldn't disagree more! You state, "that once the personality is known all objective opinion is also gone." and that is true only if each Member allows it to be true. A Member has to ALLOW him/herself to become personality biased in order to give any creedence to your opinion. That certainly isn't how I formulate my opionions on this Forum. Each transaction stands on it own! Regardless of which parties are involved, I have no problem determining which party is wrong based solely upon the FACTS of that particular transaction. Personalities should never come into play.

Keets, you state, "that is also why the Ebay arguement isn't a good one---the nature of the venue tells us all who the offender is." Simply not true! If someone wants to make allegations here about a particular transaction prior to Feedback being submitted and without the PARTICULAR coin purchased/sold, then there is NO way any Member of this Forum can determine the transaction or other Ebay party. Members here can CHOOSE to discuss an Ebay transaction without naming the other Ebay party and without damning the other party. It just isn't done that way! WHY?

Like I said before, we are much more capable of helping BOTH parties come to a worthy compromise, if and only if, we have the opportunity to hear BOTH sides of the story.

By now I think a good number of Members have been able to determine the other party in Outhaul's transaction, due to Lucy's post. Hopefully, that party will come forward and let us know their side of the story. Hopefully, everyone here will withhold JUDGEMENT until we give each side to make their arguments.

pmh1nic

Dog97

No one could have said it any better .

EVillageProwler

Bob,

The urge to respond to this is hard to resist. I am the deadbeat.




Ok, everyone, I am just kidding... I don't know who the deadbeat is, I don't care who he is, and I may never care.

I am of similar mind as Keets, and I respect your instinct to handle this with a dose of discretion.

When you ``out'' a person, a number of things will happen:
1. It becomes personal
2. The forum becomes a battleground
3. Members take sides
4. Members will chime in and muddy up the waters, so to speak...
5. The good advice to bad advice ratio plummets along with the Signal-to-Noise Ratio

The way you are handling this now is, IMO, a very good approach. You are sincerely soliciting advice, as opposed to trying to bash someone (under the guise of seeking advice). You are maintaining a reasonable level of confidentiality. And, most of all, you recognize (despite your annoyance and impatience) that there may easily be a perfectly acceptable reason for all this delay...

In short, you are maintaining a high level of ethical conduct. When you are about your wit's (and patience's) end with all this delay, then I suggest that you use PM and seek advice via that venue before soliciting advice from the peanut gallery again.

Best of luck...

EVP

LucyBop

<< <i>before soliciting advice from the peanut gallery again. >>



Which applies to EP's latest post.

agentjim007

EVP & Keets. If the deadbeat wasn't a deadbeat this thread wouldn't exist. I hope if I'm ever on trial you guys are on the jury...well maybe not keets he'd fry me.

MrKelso

Maybe th Guy Died since his last log in?

LucyBop

<< <i>I hope if I'm ever on trial you guys are on the jury >>




I wanna be on that Jury!



Heehehhehhhehheeheeeheeehee (fiendish laugh)

Outhaul

Thanks, EVP. I am striving not to make this a personal vendetta and as I stated before, I like to give anyone I deal with the benefit of the doubt till I'm at about the last hair on my head to pull out. Just as on eBay, even if the coin took an inordinate amount of time to get to me, it arrived, it wasn't a life-threatening emergency, I would not have died without it, so the guy just isn't as punctual as I am. It's different when you're being ignored.

While I certainly hope no ill has befallen the other party, I would feel absolutely terrible if I unleashed only to find out there was a serious problem that required his immediate attention. The problem is, how long should I wait? In the end, I might just be out my coins and have to take it on the chin.

Cheers,

Bob

EVillageProwler

EVP & Keets. If the deadbeat wasn't a deadbeat this thread wouldn't exist.

Jim,

If you were on trial, I'd recommend that you change your appearance. You don't want to be scaring the jury!

Seriously, I'm well aware of the strong potential that the guy is an intentional deadbeat. But, maybe not... Maybe he's just so darn clueless. Remember when Laurie Sperber 'fessed up that she didn't know how to read her PM until a long time later?

In any case, it's Bob's decision to seek advice only. He's the one who is still holding out hope that there'd be a good resolution to this. Outing the guy increases the potential of a fight, and I think Bob is looking to handle that differently (at this point in time).

EVP

Spooly

Spooly

Is this the person?


Who done it?

keets

hey agentjim

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!

hey, i'm all for the death penalty but i feel a defendant should have an impartial jury!! and all our past differences aside, i hold no ill-will towards you. i enjoy your slant on things------i can be kinda slanted myself-------and have let go of all that other BS. you see, i'm a knee jerker myself, so i have to work overtime in the other direction.

having said that, dog97 speaks-----er, barks-----some truth when he says scammers and their ilk should be outted. the only tender point is that there is always two sides to a story. my adage as i grow older is to speak my truth and let the chips fall where they may. once guilt or innocence is established here, i hope outhaul informs us.

hey EVP, don't we make strange bedfellows!!!! DOH!!!!

al h.

LucyBop

<< <i>hey EVP, don't we make strange bedfellows!!!! >>



Why I never would have suspected it?????????

Bulldog

I read somewhere, that when one asks anothers opinion, they are not really interested in the answer, so much as gaining an accomplice !

Casting a shadow of doubt on many, with no balls to pull the trigger is evil !

Last post I remember about "have you seen ---------lately"? Someone was lookin for Goldenpony or something like that. I have no idea if he is the guy/gal or not. Just pulling old info out of a very old brain.


Bulldog

DCAMFranklin

EVP- I have always admired the message of your posts and the calming influence you provide to this Forum.

However, in reviewing your list of 5 things that will happen if you "out" a person, I have to ask won't the same 5 things occur if a Member specifically names an Ebay seller and the exact transaction?

Once again, I have to ask why is it that a Member receives a "free pass" for no other reason than they post to this Forum? Why should a Member receive immunity when they use shoddy business practices? I can't think of even 1.