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Most of you would'nt know AT "tone" from your AS_

Ok Kids....Here goes...While I appreciate all the contributions on here about "fake" toned coins I can't help but wonder about all the comments I hear on here
..
"Yeah...It's baked maaan" ...."yeah dude...3 hours on 425"..."yup for sure it's AT"

So here's the deal....everyone wants to know about fake tone vs. real tone right?

But how many of you have ever done it?

I'd be VERY impressed if someone could look at a coin and tell me HOW it was done......Chit...that would BLOW ME AWAY!

I'm listing several " ways" to artifically tone coins.....An EXPERIMENT so to speak.....




I'm looking for volenteers that will choose one of the ways below....Take a NEW one dollar silver bullion piece and take a "before" pic of it then choose from one of the ways below to "TONE it artifically.

We will then wait until everyone has there "toned" piece ready and submit photo's. Pick a number.
below are the "recipies".......I'll take number 1#.....You in? Or are you just going to bash any monster toned coin that comes along without having a clue?


1) Cigar or cigarette smoke, directed at a coin's surface will produce a light brown tone. Frequent repitition of this proceedure will produce darker browns. (tip-off....smell the coin!)
2) Place a coin in a paper coin envelope, bake for 30 minutes in a 300 degree oven. The coin will be a bit dull, but have taken on shades of purple, yellowish-green, or dark blue. "Over-cooked" coins can appear dull dark gray/blue/black. (tip-off...dull surfaces).
3) A weak sulphur solution, diluted with alcohol or water, will yield gold, golden-brown towns. A stronger solution will yield deep purplish-blue tones. Too strong a solution will yield gunmetal gray surfaces. This is a very deceptive method if "done right".
4) Coat a coin with corn oil, and bake inside a foil wrapped baked potato. A purplish-blue, or orange color will result.
5) Brush a coins with a blend of motor oil and corn oil. Bake at 275-300 degrees for an hour. Deep blue/purple colors appear.
6) Make a solution of sulphur powder and alcohol. The sulphur powder will not dissolve...but that is okay. Dip a coin into the solution, and set the coin on a table. Set the alcohol on fire, and let it burn out. Repeated "burnings" yield varying shades of gold-brown-blue-purple-black.
7) Sulphur ointment (home brew = vaseline+sulphur powder) can be used to retone or touch up copper coins.
8) Coins painted with gun bluing solution can yield various shades of the color spectrum.
9) A coin soaked in dandruff shampoo, for a couple of days, can produce green, yellow, and brown colors.
10) Place a coin into a hot toaster or on a hot frying pan. It will eventually take on a dull gray or black color.
11) Placing a coin in a paper envelope, or plastic holder...or a sealed proof set...in a sunny windowsill for a long period (1 to 3 months) will eventually result in a variety of colors. The coins may look "sick" or faded though.
12) Submerge a coin in a weak solution of sulphurated potash (liver of sulphur) for 5 seconds. Various colors can be had with each repeated dipping.
13) Place an inexpensive gold coin in a jar of "jeweluster " coin dip. Let sit for a couple of weeks. Dipping silver coins in this new "smart dip" will give the a golden tone.



Toast on
«1

Comments

  • Toast - how about this? image

    image
  • airplanenutairplanenut Posts: 22,149 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>How would u know we dont know AT from our A$$? >>

    Especially if it was brown image
    JK Coin Photography - eBay Consignments | High Quality Photos | LOW Prices | 20% of Consignment Proceeds Go to Pancreatic Cancer Research
  • GPGP Posts: 186
    sorry, never took pics. I have tried several AT techniques, just to see what they looked like. I used mostly 1964 coins from my "scrap" pile.
    The coin you are talking about was cooked (in my opinion), not in a potato, not with a torch, but somehow (not sure how, but it was definately heat) You can tell, because the way the browngrey tone was on both sides of the coin. way to even for that kind of toning, had they cooked it longer, it would of had more blue. It is possible for a coin to tone naturally on both sides, but chances are it wouldnt be all one color, since it would take very unusual circumstances to cause that. I have seen some all blue nickels, and all red dimes, but they are very hard to come by. Sure it may be real, it is always hard to tell from a pic.


    I will agree with you though, there are many people here that have no clue what AT looks like, and like to use toning buzz words often. There are also some experts here, who's word i would take as gold. TomB, TDN, EVP. gmarguli, Michael and several others.
    image
  • GPGP Posts: 186
    fc57 did you cook them yourself? there are a few there that dont look AT. Natural toning can also come in some very strange patterns.
    image
  • dragondragon Posts: 4,548 ✭✭
    cointoast,

    All of the methods you listed are archaic and normally produce awful, amateurish results that are easily detectable even by novices.

    Also, what is your point in making an offer or challenge for people to ruin or damage their coins?

    dragon
  • Haha! This thread makes me laugh. All the aforementioned AT methods are very, very crude. The AT guys out there have spent years and thousands of dollars perfecting a method of fooling some of the most competent and brilliant graders in the business. Do you really think baking a coin, or sticking it in a potato will fool anyone? The AT doctors have had chemists from major universities develop formulas to enhance, create or alter color on silver and copper coins, not to mention altering surfaces. The doctors of today are experts. However, many home brews in CONTROLLED settings can and do work. It's a matter of CONTROLLING the process of artifical toning, not a random or haphazzard method.

    TRUTH
  • FC57Coins - I`ve had that picture set as wallpaper since you first posted it. Yesterday, when the family was here. they where stunned speechless. I kept quiet the whole time about it and it just killed me just to see thier reaction. They where in shock and just looked at it mesmeroized and speechless. Thanks for making my Thanksgiving " special".


  • << <i>Thanks for making my Thanksgiving " special". >>



    Dude - whatever it takes! - Just happy I could oblige! image
  • OuthaulOuthaul Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Please don't feed the troll!

    He got burned something chronic on an AT coin, Linkage, and now he's feeling brassic. He asks in another thread for opinions of his purchase, a couple of our resident experts felt it was AT and now he has a fit. Well...If you can't stand the answer then don't ask the question. Just my two-cents (U.S.)

    BTW...He did much better on the Morgan

    Cheers,

    Bob
  • That IS a nice Morgan - worlds of difference from the Commem.
  • fcloudfcloud Posts: 12,133 ✭✭✭✭
    Cointoast is right as far as I am concerned. I don't know AT vs. real. I like mine blast white, up to some minor tone from the coin being old. I just stay away. image

    President, Racine Numismatic Society 2013-2014; Variety Resource Dimes; See 6/8/12 CDN for my article on Winged Liberty Dimes; Ebay

  • Civil Defense Radar has spotted the word "ass" flying over the US Coin Forum. Please remain in your homes until it has passed. Thank you.

    General Clankeye Hottentot. Civil Defense Command.
    Brevity is the soul of wit. --William Shakespeare
  • CLASSICSCLASSICS Posts: 1,164 ✭✭
    there are a lot of members on the board who have been in the hobby for many years, and who have attented hundreds of shows throughout the country, yes, from small shows to major ana conventions, and have handled, bought and sold many of thousands of dollars worth of coins, from common to very rare. to take all of that into account, and to say we dont know a.t. from our ass, is on your part very childish....you asked for an opinion, and we gave you one, you didnt listen and you got stuck with a piece of junk... next time keep an open mind, and try and listen to someone who has been around the block a time or two, just maybe you will learn something.image
  • Not a troll.....lol......I was a member here before 95%of you..(the old boards)....The reason I left for so long is because the board changed.....


    FC57...nice but I haven't learned anything from you if you don't tell me how you did it...

    Klector Kid....I think your Cobb in disguise..LOL Stop Bashing EVERYTHING on here...grow up.

    airplanenut...your a good kid keep up the good work..I enjoy your postings!

    GP...Thank you for your opinion..... intelligent post...I can learn from you.

    Dragon....I don't consider a 6 dollar coin that great of an expense for an experiment...You say these methods are archaic....I look foward to learning from you and having you enlighten us to the "modern" methods.

    Truthteller..Please look above..again..you offer nothing in the way of education.

    Outhall....I wish you were around in the old days....I dont remember your handle..there used to be some FANTASTIC people here before.......I look foward to learning from you....

    Has DOG97 been chased away?....I hope not..That guy was AWESOME!...TOMB too.

    Toast on
  • No Troll...Been on this board since the start..."old board"......

    critisize my coin all you want.....just please dont make it a personal attack.

    Thanks,

    Ray
    Toast on
  • cachemancacheman Posts: 3,118 ✭✭✭
    BWAHAHAHAHAHA...the only ass around here is the one that would pay $280 for that Stoney........not only is it obviously AT but it is BU too, and we all know what BU stands for don't we?
  • cointoast,

    I'm not the most knowledgeable member of this forum. I don't know how to AT coins, or how to detect them 100%.

    But, I am observant. And, I couldn't help but notice the hypocrisy in your statements. Your last post:


    << <i>critisize my coin all you want.....just please dont make it a personal attack. >>



    And, yet... you make a personal attack on the entire forum with the title of this thread:


    << <i>Most of you would'nt know AT "tone" from your AS_ >>



    It doesn't matter if you gave birth to this forum before any of us were big enough to hold a coin in our pudgy little baby hands... longevity doesn't overcome assinine behavior. A trollish act like yours speaks for itsself.

    Just an observation.



    Edited for spelling.... ooops
    NMFB ™

    image
  • Yawn, it must be the start of the weekend!

    I find it amusing how some will buy obviously AT coins and then defend their purchase like crazy. When they learn the truth they become even more aggressive and defensive. Solution? Don't buy toned coins that look too good to be true. Buy classics and pre 1933 gold. image
  • Cacheman...Yes.I paid $280 for the "Stoney", with full return privilege from a dealer I trust.
    Thank you for enlightening the board with your in depth knowledge of artificial toning. By the way....it will probably kill you to know that if I like the coin and KNOW it's AT.......I'll keep it anyway if I'ts nice.

    KlectorKid...I look forward to the day you actually "disclose" your knowledge about coins...again, dont make personal attacks to make yourself feel better.....teach me! Once you do that .....I'm in....

    I look foward to learning from you....I really do...
    Toast on
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
    Personally, I don't know anything about toning, nor do I ever claim to.

    But, sometimes artificial toning is obvious, even to me.image

    Russ, NCNE
  • ClarkOfKent...Thanks for the reply and you are 100% correct....Sorry for the heading on my original post...

    It was not the way to go about asking a question....wont happen again...

    Sorry.......
    Toast on
  • Russ.......Thanks for the link.....good lesson..I can learn from you....
    Toast on
  • Cointoast - I like your style. It should result in some interesting exchanges.

    adrian
  • KlectorKid....Are you in prison? Lots of pent up anger here lol......

    If I am a troll as you claim why do you keep responding? I'd rather be a troll then someone that makes there life responding to one!

    You need a girlfriend.......I mean it.......I REALLY mean it. lol

    Types like you are the major reason I left the boards in the first place....logged in 10 hours a day just to ridicule people........unreal.....
    Toast on


  • << <i>Yawn, it must be the start of the weekend! I find it amusing how some will buy obviously AT coins and then defend their purchase like crazy. When they learn the truth they become even more aggressive and defensive. >>



    I am with Russ in that I don't claim to know toning. I can spot some AT coins and have baked a few myself (clads) just for kicks but I am not expert. Toast's coin looks odd to me though.

    It does amaze me sometimes when people ask "What do you think?", and when people tell them, they get PO'd.
    Time sure flies when you don't know what you are doing...

    CoinPeople.com || CoinWiki.com || NumisLinks.com


  • << <i>Sorry for the heading on my original post... >>



    Now, that's a good start. I applaud you for recognizing you were approaching things from the wrong angle.

    There are plenty of people here that will give you a credible answer to a credible question put to them in a credible way. Some of the old people are gone. Some of the new people are great. Welcome back. Check any attitude at the door and this can be a swell place.

    I've collected Stone Mountains for years. I have never seen one that IMO was original that had toning like the toning on your coin. If you still enjoy the coin that is totally up to you, infact I hope you do.
    I have purchased original 50's mint sets from JWCameo. I know him to be honest and a good person to deal with. Of late, he has offered a few coins I have seen, raw, with questionable toning. Why? I don't know. That's his business. If he stands by them, that's all you need to know. Keep the coin if you like it, send it back if you don't. I will tell you in my experience with St. Mtns They are very hard to come by with vibrant color. Does that mean they aren't out there? They are, but they are coveted.

    Carl
    Clankeye
    Brevity is the soul of wit. --William Shakespeare


  • << <i>FC57...nice but I haven't learned anything from you if you don't tell me how you did it... >>



    Toast:

    I didn't do those - and I wouldn't do those - those are just examples of coins I've seen on ebay but they nevertheless do look like what they are. The bottom line is that some AT's are very hard to tell, and in this day and age when the grading services are knocking out genuine coins even if the "look" AT because their reputation may suffer, a lot of people are yelling AT at everything they see. If you look at my post, I questioned whether your coin was AT, didn't condone or condemn. And I still reserve judgement, because I'm not sure - I haven't seen the coin. However, if someone offered the coin to me raw, I would probably reject it - beit for ignorance or wisdom, I don't think I'd go out on a limb on something like that - we'll live and learn I guess.

    Frank
  • KlectorKid: Guess what else I collect.......


    "A toaster works by applying radiant heat directly to a bread slice. When the bread's surface temperature reaches about 310 degrees Farenheit, a chemical change known as the Maillard reaction begins. Sugars and starches start to caramelize - turn brown - and to take on intense flavors.

    "That's toast.

    "With more heating, the sugars and underlying grain fibers start turning into carbon.

    "That's burnt toast.

    " With radiant heat the atoms and molecules exchange energy by sending thermal radiation back and forth. Thermal radiation is electromagnetic waves and includes infrared light. A hotter object sends more infrared light toward a colder object than vice versa, so the hotter object gives up thermal energy to the colder object..........


    Toast on
  • RussRuss Posts: 48,514 ✭✭✭
    KlectorKid,

    A small piece of advice FWIW. You're starting to sound like LittleWicher. This is not a good thing, bud.

    Russ, NCNE
  • FC57...Thanks for your opinion respect it.

    This was really not meant to be a "Oh my everyone hates my coin thread" While I've been away from the board for a while I did happen to check back in on occasion and "peak".

    What I noticed was that anytime someone posted a pic of a coin with "questionable" toning 75% or more of the reply's never had a "why it's AT" reply.....It's like it got to a point where if a coin had great or unusual toning it just HAD to be fake....without giving the reasons WHY..

    Same with this post and many others......While there have been a few VERY valid reply's on why some think it's AT, most just drum up there wisdom from somewhere inside there heads with no validity or first hand knowledge.

    I need to LEARN and am more than willing to share my limited knowledge on any subject.


    CLANKEYE: Thanks for the reply...I have always respected your knowledge, input and professionalism! I look forward to learning much more from you!..

    You are AAA+++ Class act in my book.......


    Toast on
  • KlectorKid...Your right I'm wrong. I look foward to digesting the immense knowledge that is inside your brain.

    Please begin..........now.image
    Toast on
  • coinguy1coinguy1 Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭
    cointoast,

    I have seen far more A.T. coins than I would like to have viewed and usually, I don't know what method was used to tone them. But, I know from having examined plenty of coins, when something looks original and when it doesn't.

    Various coins turn particular colors, "naturally", depending upon the metal content, the holders they might have resided in, etc. The Stone Mountain you bought is an example of a coin which, I am as certain as I can be, is not original. I need not know how it toned that way, in order to be confident that its color is artificial. And, if I did claim to know exactly what caused that color pattern, it wouldn't make me any more correct in my assessment.
  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Here is AT, It's in a ngc 63 star holder.
    image
    image
    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • BladeBlade Posts: 1,744
    Stman,
    For my benefit, given my limited knowledge in toning, how do you know that Peace is AT? Did you do it yourself? Or does it have some AT characteristics like toning deep into the devices?

    Just trying to learn something here - go easy!
    Tom

    NOTE: No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.

    Type collector since 1981
    Current focus 1855 date type set
  • Coinguy1 (Mark)

    Thanks for the input.....your website, name, and reputation speaks for itself (AAA+++).

    If I decide to keep the coin, (probably will at this point lol) I'd like to ask a favor.....I'd like to send it to you for examination and to get a first hand impression of the coin and if possible to determine HOW it was AT.

    I would of course pay any fees incurred for this and postage both ways.

    I value your opinion and think it a good lesson to share with others on the board.

    Believe me.......$280 to me (what i paid for the coin ..with full exchange rights) is not that high a price to pay to learn....

    I look forward to your response!

    Thanks,

    Ray

    Toast on
  • stmanstman Posts: 11,352 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Blade, I guess I should have said this is what ( some people call AT).
    Because these usually don't tone this way, or they haven't seen them tone this way, so some people would say it has to be AT.

    In answer to your question: No I did not do this to this coin, I don't play with coins or even dip them.
    Please... Save The Stories, Just Answer My Questions, And Tell Me How Much!!!!!
  • stman.......Why do you think it's AT? We can't learn unless you tell us. Don't be shy...imageimageimage
    Toast on
  • TomBTomB Posts: 21,209 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hey Toast, long-time-no-post. I have to admit that I was one of the people who sent a PM to stman to give him my opinion that the coin he had purchased, even though it was slabbed by NGC as MS63*, was really AT. One reason I wrote that was because several years ago a friend of mine started to sell Peace dollars that were toned exactly like that one is, as far as my memory can determine. These were all raw coins and they were all AT and he essentially made no bones about it. He would say "Pretty sells, and these are pretty". In other words, it didn't matter that they were AT, someone would buy them. He had all the common Peace dollar dates all together in his case and it made quite a display of raw, AT Peace dollars. Within the last two to three years I have seen quite a few of these dollars start to pop up in NGC holders and, in fact, last year there was a TeleTrade auction that had four or five toned more or less very similar to the one stman bought. I cannot prove that the coin is AT, however, even if I didn't have the experience I had with the other Peace dollars, this one just doesn't look original to me. It's still pretty and it's in a holder. I have a web site where I have a few things I have written about toned coins. Here is a link to an essay about capturing toned images with film vs scanner, one for the basic science of toning as I understand it and one for the toning premium as I have lived it. In my opinion, the distribution of colors on stman's Peace dollar is not typical of a toned coin that has not otherwise been "helped". That, in combination with the depth of toning and the mirror image of the toning on both obverse and reverse, combined with my experience let me believe it is AT. It is slabbed and stman should be able to sell the coin for a tidy profit when the time comes, but I won't be buying it.
    Thomas Bush Numismatics & Numismatic Photography

    In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson

    image

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