Hard to find true FH SL Quarters.
heavycopper
Posts: 99 ✭
Well, I tried to buy another full head Standing Liberty quarter. I bought a 1928-S MS65 FH graded by PCGS this past week over an internet auction. It looked good in the scan. When the coin arrived, I knew rhight away it was not a full head. I saw the reverse first and saw there were no feathers on the eagle's chest. The strike had to be weak. Then I flipped it over. The head had the 3 olive leaves and a touch of the hairline at the top but that was it. There was no ear hole and no hairline going down from the temple past her cheek. There was just a flat spot! I have Cline's SLQ book so I know what to look for. Then I searched around for other pictures of FH quarters. Several of the slabs had FH on them, but the head was clearly not full. Are these things just hard to find? What is going on with the grading? Mabye there should be a NFH (nearly Full Head) and a FH on the holders.
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New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
There are plenty of FH SLQs around. The most common are (in no particular order) the 1930 P, 1929P. 1930S, & the 1917 P (Type 1). The PCGS Grading book defines FH in a similar manner as you described it.
I have a 28S FH in 5. You may have to pay a slight premium for it.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
It's important to make darn sure you get your money's worth if collecting these by FH. Some dates carry such a premium, you don't want somebody to argue about it when you go to sell. I prefer what I call "arm's" length FH which is self explanatory. Many of the pieces out there do not have a Full Head by most accepted definitions so pick and choose carefully, never take the grading services opinion on these at face value.
Finding one with an arm's length Full Head, a rub free leg, original surfaces and accurately graded to boot is an even more monumental task. Prepare for the challenge of a lifetime.
I respectfully disagree. When I was looking for a FH SLQ in 5 or 6, I looked at 15 of them one day at a Long Beach show. I could have viewed more, but my eyes got tired after awhile. I didn't see any 'sliders' like the one mentioned by Heavycopper. Granted, 8 of these coins were at Cline's display, but there was no ifs, ands, or buts about the others.
The field will be limited somewhat when you add the caveat "accurately graded" (I found the contact marks to be excessive on a few of them), and as for leg-rub, well, I've seen a number of 6s with it.
Still, finding a nice one of them for me was far easier than finding virtually any of 19th Century Type coins, with the odd exception of my Capped Bust Dime, which practically jumped out at me.
The SLQ with the best strike is far and away the 1917 P Type 1.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
1928-S FH?
Yes, I did pay a fair FH price for it. I expect a true full head when PCGS gives it a FH on the holder. This should be easy when grading. It is either there or it is not.
Yep, I returned it the same day I received it.
adrian
As someone who has dealt with Standing Liberty Quarters for quite some time, I will echo some of the remarks made by heavycopper. Finding true Full Head quarters is no easy task. I think the criteria for what makes a real full head has been compromised over the years. There are many dates, like 29 D for instance, that when found with a full head will not have the same definition as say a 24 D. When 29 D's are found in Full Head they are never what most collectors would generally accept as full head since they are rarely ever found with killer head detail. True as well for 28 D, although 28 D's can be found with killer head detail with patience.
In general though, I see a great deal of coins in full head holders that are no what most would call full head. I think this is one reason the series has not seen price increases in line with how rare many of the dates are with REAL full heads. There are too many coins in full head holders that are "just make it" coins that sell for discounts to what the real deal is actually worth. I will certainly pay a premium for dates I know are seldom found with honest, no question full heads like the 28 D, 29 D and 20 and 21 P issues to name a few.
An interesting topic and one I felt was worth a few comments.
Mike Printz
Harlan J. Berk, Ltd.
https://hjbltd.com/#!/department/us-coins
Soap Box Time!: This is one reason why I won't pay hugh premuims for these so-called FH coins. Many don't have the earhold AND most don't have the shield full...another words it is NOT fully struck. IMO, you get better value going for coins with overall better strikes and many of these are in non-FH holders. Believe me if you have a nice cherry-picked set of SLQ's, even without FH's, it is something to be proud of!
jom
Or more simply put, why not buy from Cline?
OTOH, as someone pointed out, true FH coins for some dates are nearly impossible to find. Which leads to the obvious question. If you want one for a type set, a 1917 P Type 1, a 30P, 30S or 29P are available in
ample quantities. OTOH, if you want a 24 D, you are going to be looking for a LONG time.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Did Kline somehow corner the market on these early on and is now cashing-in in todays coin market?
Is he maybe responsible for the huge premiums these are going for?
Just curious.
It seems that the hobby continues to ignore the "less that perfect" designations which are often indistinguishable and are usually very much underpriced. I for one will continue to enjoy the Non full heads, non split bands and the non full bell line coins and skip the big time premiums.
And I can say my 66 dog beats your 64FH dog anyday, just put the two next to each other.
Coyn
First, if you think that “full head” means full shield, full gown and all the toes, I would suggest that you need to consider collecting another series. Fully struck coins like that are very scarce for the dates that most often have full heads and virtually nonexistent to totally nonexistent for many others. I went though this with a customer years ago, and finally convinced him that he would be much happier collecting type coins. His standards for the Standing Liberty quarters were so high that he was destined to face only a lifetime of frustration.
Second, if you think that you are going to find these “full head” AND full struck coins for something resembling the Gray Sheet prices or using the Gray Sheet as even a guide, you need to engage in another re-examination. One of the things that I have noted about the Gray Sheet is that many prices, especially in the circulated grades have been “dumbed down” to reflect the lose grading standards that ALL grading services practice. If you are shopping for a 1916-D Mercury dime in VF for example, you are going to be severely disappointed if you expect to see ALL on the lines defined on the fasces. Today VF is what VG used to be. I dare say that the same price adjustments have been made for the Full Head Standing quarters.
Third, I have seen Standing Liberty quarters that were full struck on the head, but not on the shield and other parts of the design. If these coins don’t qualify as “full head” coins for you, then perhaps we should have an addition deluxe category called “full strike,” which would have prices at the astronomical levels that such coins deserve.
The Standing Liberty quarter series came to end after just 14 years (the 1916s were all made in the month of December) because the design was a mechanical failure. Unfortunately the mint system could never get the design right with any consistency after the blue noses demanded that Ms. Liberty had to put a shirt on. In reality after the first coins were issued in 1917 the series was doomed.
There are plenty 90% or 95% head for 28S and 29S SLQs. Your picture shows one of them, IMO.
When talked to Cline, he classified FH to "slabbled FH" (a.k.a. certified company defined FH), "typical FH" and "sharp FH". He also joked about "ultra-FH". The idea was proposed to PCGS in late 90s. Indeed, too many SLQ slabbed by PCGS lately are not FH but they are slabbed FH. My experience tell me that most FH SLQ in PCGS holder before 1998 are true Full Head coins. Most true full head coins in ANACS and in NGC holders were crossed over to PCGS holders (and I was one of the guilty guys.). That's why you rarely found sharp FH coins in NGC holders.
Check the pop results. Check the 27S pop. It did grow a lot in the last two years. Did that tell you something? If it is not caused by re-submitting to get a higher grade, it must be loosing the standard. Believe it or not, at least one 66 is arguable to be 85% to 90% Full Head coin.
There are some days that is very hard to find a true Full Head, 24S is a good example. I did saw one in 6 which is a true Full Head in Cline's case. But it is out of my price range