I support PCGS right not to include NGC coins in the Registry. If you want a mixed set..... then list your coins over on the NGC Registry. Wow.... that is so simple. It's PCGS's Registry, PCGS can do what ever it wants.... like it or not. PCGS and David Hall have made alot of changes to the Registry because of collector input. Sometimes you don't get everything you want. What I see here is a big split among collectors on this issue..... and PCGS siding with the "no" NGC coins position. What is funny no one has brought up the fact that even NGC states it grades on a different standard than PCGS. You guys act like David Hall made that up. It's been the stated opinion of both companies. PCGS has made is position known..... this is a dead issue.
Si vis pacem, para bellum
In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
I think most of the objectors are objecting to the reasons that DH gave for not including NGC-slabbed specimens in the CU registry. If DH had simply said that they've chosen their policy for business reasons, then that is fine. But to come out and publicly bash a competitor is unwise because it opens up the reasons for counter-scrutiny and it leaves the character of the basher open to debate.
Remember that Superman taught us that we should defend truth, justice and the American way...
Thank you for editing your initial post toothpuller. I do still believe that Ms Sperber deserves an apology, as the post appeared to be directed her way, whether it was or not.
Hoot
From this hour I ordain myself loos'd of limits and imaginary lines. - Whitman
EVP, agree I wouldn't have answered the the question that way either. What I shock to learn is how many collectors don't want NGC coins in the Registry. I am siding with the collectors having a choice of the two Registries..... PCGS position in the big picture is the same. (For good or bad or weird reasons)
Si vis pacem, para bellum
In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
If PCGS does not want to include NGC coins in their registry I can live with it provided they permit a mixed registry set that is not "scored with graded points." If PCGS had two classes of registries and the mixed registry list does not compete with the PCGS registry, then that is ok too.
Keep in mind that there are wonderful and world famous PCGS slabbed coins that sit next to minor and/or world class NGC slabbed coins or even ACG slabs and to force these sets to another web site such as NGC just to be displayed is going to be counterproductive to PCGS business plan of more revenues.
What I want is for PCGS to maximize its internet traffic anyway it can. That includes taking a more global view of slabbed coins for presentation purposes on the internet.
The more internet traffic it can generate, the more advertising revenues PCGS and CLCT can generate on these web sites.
By the way, I had suggested a for fee prepaid hosting service set up by PCGS, PSA, etc. to allow collectors to upload pictures to the internet. Has anything been done on this?
Perhaps I am reading too much into your comments, but it seems like you have a very strong desire for PCGS to succeed at the expense of the other services.
If that is true -- my apologies if I'm way off base -- then I should remind you that a monopoly is very bad for the consumers. Historically, monopolies lose their innovativeness and efficiency. And, they stop caring about the customers. Do we want that?
EVillageProwler: Of course I want PCGS to succeed at what it does. It is all about revenues and to try to keep their #1 status. It is not about PCGS destroying the other services but instead to grow and properly respond to NGC intelligent marketing move to include PCGS slabs in their registry. NGC would like very much to be #1 and PCGS failure to respond to NGC smart moves of late will allow NGC to become #1. It is getting much closer even now.
If PCGS allows NGC to become #1 it might become very, very difficult for PCGS to ever become #1 again.
But, Oreville, why do you care who's #1? As long as the top services keep on fighting it out, it's good for us. I don't care who comes out on top. In fact, I hope the competition never results in a winner (except for us, of course!).
Sorry, but I don't like the idea of subracting a % point away from NGC coins to make them "equal" to PCGS coins. In many cases those NGC coins would be nicer than average PCGS coins.
David, while you may be right about PCGS MS65 trade dollars being tougher to find than NGC MS 65's. The opposite is true at the MS66 level!! Yes, hard to believe, but the #'s clearly show that NGC grades MS66 trade dollars far tighter than PCGS. So anyone who has an NGC66 trade, you should feel more than justified sticking that in your PCGS registry and getting bonus points to boot over an "ordinary" PCGS MS66 trade. This was sort of the point that EVP was making. There are examples too.
Does anyone else not see the irony (and perhaps elitism) in PCGS current policy of only allowing us Plebs to enter only their slabs, yet for the classic collectors and their sets (such as the Eliasberg set of Liberty double eagles) most are allowed in even raw? I am assuming they were raw, but they were clearly not in PCGS holders, otherwise I would question why the grades on so many were estimated for the set. And the set I reference is the #2 all time highest in that category. I'm sure there are others as well. So the real message from D Hall et al is that NGC coins are clearly not good enough, but if you are a famous dead collector, then even your raw coins are good enough for the registry (and hence our estimate is better than any NGC certified coin). I have no problem with their policies, it's their sandbox, it's just logical inconsistencies and a lack of clear critical thinking that bug me.
NO doubt phantom sets are just plain wrong and are counter to all of DHall's statements related to this. We already know that they were great sets, but it is not right to put them in the registry based on speculation of grade. I know TDN argued this ad nauseum about the Trade Dollars, and ultimately was deemed in the right by PCGS.
On another point, there is another factor that has not been considered in the data. Think about all of those NGC coins that are never considered for cross by dealers. Knowing the two series I collect the most, there are MANY NGC coins that I wouldn't even consider because they are not even cross candidates under what I have determined to be PCGS standards.
In 15 years of this slabbing business I have only bothered to cross 3 NGC coins into PCGS coins. I was successful on all three. My success rate is 100%.
But I admit I have not done it in quite some time.
I do not like coins being taken out of a holder even for crossing purposes. Why take the chance of human error or getting lost in the mail, etc.?
Personally, I am not much of a fan of the crossing game.
Comments
In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
I think most of the objectors are objecting to the reasons that DH gave for not including NGC-slabbed specimens in the CU registry. If DH had simply said that they've chosen their policy for business reasons, then that is fine. But to come out and publicly bash a competitor is unwise because it opens up the reasons for counter-scrutiny and it leaves the character of the basher open to debate.
Remember that Superman taught us that we should defend truth, justice and the American way...
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Hoot
In God We Trust.... all others pay in Gold and Silver!
Keep in mind that there are wonderful and world famous PCGS slabbed coins that sit next to minor and/or world class NGC slabbed coins or even ACG slabs and to force these sets to another web site such as NGC just to be displayed is going to be counterproductive to PCGS business plan of more revenues.
What I want is for PCGS to maximize its internet traffic anyway it can. That includes taking a more global view of slabbed coins for presentation purposes on the internet.
The more internet traffic it can generate, the more advertising revenues PCGS and CLCT can generate on these web sites.
By the way, I had suggested a for fee prepaid hosting service set up by PCGS, PSA, etc. to allow collectors to upload pictures to the internet. Has anything been done on this?
Perhaps I am reading too much into your comments, but it seems like you have a very strong desire for PCGS to succeed at the expense of the other services.
If that is true -- my apologies if I'm way off base -- then I should remind you that a monopoly is very bad for the consumers. Historically, monopolies lose their innovativeness and efficiency. And, they stop caring about the customers. Do we want that?
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
If PCGS allows NGC to become #1 it might become very, very difficult for PCGS to ever become #1 again.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
David, while you may be right about PCGS MS65 trade dollars being tougher to find than NGC MS 65's. The opposite is true at the MS66 level!! Yes, hard to believe, but the #'s clearly show that NGC grades MS66 trade dollars far tighter than PCGS. So anyone who has an NGC66 trade, you should feel more than justified sticking that in your PCGS registry and getting bonus points to boot over an "ordinary" PCGS MS66 trade. This was sort of the point that EVP was making. There are examples too.
roadrunner
On another point, there is another factor that has not been considered in the data. Think about all of those NGC coins that are never considered for cross by dealers. Knowing the two series I collect the most, there are MANY NGC coins that I wouldn't even consider because they are not even cross candidates under what I have determined to be PCGS standards.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
But I admit I have not done it in quite some time.
I do not like coins being taken out of a holder even for crossing purposes. Why take the chance of human error or getting lost in the mail, etc.?
Personally, I am not much of a fan of the crossing game.