Post Your annoying Dealer Stories!!!
KlectorKid
Posts: 3,723
I was at a coin shop near my grandparents house and i stumbled apon a 1907 gold coin graded ms-62 by NGC they asked 298 for it i tried to talk him down but he only moved about 5 dollars or so. He didnt really think i knew what i was doin, because he picked up almost every other try gold then when he got it he took a look at the coin i was thinking about buying he said oh, its so cheap... he must have thought i was some rich kid that thought it looked pretty ( which it was ) i tried agian and he said if i go any lower i wont make any profit, i was about to scream at that point because i new he wouldnt have paid more than $210. i walked away and i will call one of the nice ladies that works there when this old fart is golfing or whatever he does in his spair time. P.S. should i have taken it at $290?
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I told the second dealer what had happened and asked why he was willing to accept my offer. His answer was simple..."I made $25.00 in about 2 minutes". What's a collector to do? I understand dealers give each other breaks all the time, but hey throw the ordinary collector a bone once in a blue moon.
Cheers,
Bob
he was rather foolish. (some dealers only deal wholesale to avoid having to pay taxes at retail....I believe Tony Terranova deals to the "trade" only for example)
roadrunner
I've had more irritating things happen but this just recently happened. Feels good to get it out of my system.
I received no notification that the only retail guy there had quit. My payments, attention to him, got misplaced. When I contacted Heritage to try to make things ok, I got someone who decided that I owed them extra for those extra days when my payment was late. It all had something to do with their continuously accruing interest structure. I guess the coupons meant nothing, 'cuz they certainly wouldn't have given back money if I had paid a day or two ahead of schedule.
I paid the extra $50 or so, and promptly paid off the entire balance. I have never bought retail from Heritage again.
I know Greg Rohan. I've had many conversations with him. I've often debated telling him about this and about how their retail guys can all go kiss my backside.
So far, I've decided to remain silent on this issue.
Imagine their giving me so much hassle for $50 when I'm making a $14K purchase! And, don't forget about the interest!
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
LSCC#1864
Ebay Stuff
It was the only RE half I had ever owned until maybe 15 years later. After about 6-9 months of ownership I took it back to the selling dealer as I had become disenchanted with the piece after finding out there was quite a bit of rub on it. Imagine my surprise when
she flat out claimed that it had never gotten it from her and that I was grossly mistaken. It wasn't like she had UNC bust halves coming out of the woodwork either. Forget about an offer of any sort! That was the last time I ever set foot in her store. For many years after that I would politely walk by her table at local shows but never stop.
Another local dealer refused to make any offers on raw coins he sold me once I brought them back to him a few years later. They were always MS65 when he had them, but became something less when it was the other way. That was when it really hit me about how the one way street works. It was 1980 when I last stopped in at his store and he's still in business at the same address.
roadrunner
This dealer seems very peculiar... I guess he didn't really want to sell the coin.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
I started going down the first row of dealer tables asking to look at there 1878 Morgans. Being a VAM collector, that is the first thing I do. I got to about the fifth or six table, turned to the dealer next up and said "Do you have any 1878 Morgans I could look at? He said "No." He was pulling strips of tape off of a roll of tape. As I drifted by his table, I caught sight of a PCGS 1878 8TF in a green holder in his case. I said to him "Wait you must have forgotten about this one." He looked up at me and said in a loud voice "I DON'T HAVE TIME TO SHOW YOU THAT COIN, I'M BUSY HERE !!!!"
He was just pulling tape off a new roll. No other customers in sight. I would have kicked him in the a$$, but I was afraid I might hurt whoever else go stuck up it before me!!!!!!
His name is DAVID WEINSTEIN NEW HYDE PARK NY (Booth 427 at LB) I will spit in his booth at the next show!!!!
I may not look like much when I come around, but I spent five figures at that show (didn't make it quite to six)
I noticed that DMW also named names.
What do the rest of you think?
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
He asked for a want list and I gave it to him.
It contained about 20 coins that don't even exist like a 1908 PCGS PR CAM Barber quarter in 66 or higher.
Needless to say he hasn't been able to find anything on my want list yet, but he says he's trying.
Feel free to invite him to the boards if you know him. He strikes me as the type who won't respond. There's no excuse for behavior like that no matter who you are. He was just jealous because he thought I had knowledge and might cherry pick him. His ego wouldn't stand for that. Good dealers delight when I find varieties in their inventory. Most of the time I'm not looking for ultra rarities, just those varieties that I do not have.
Just my two-cents (U.S.)
Cheers,
Bob
me: "You buying coins?"
dealer: "See the coins in my case? I bought every one of them."
me: "OK, how much will you give me for this 1957 DCAM dime?"
dealer: "How much will you take for it?"
me: "How much can I get out of you?"
at this point he usually slides my coin back across the case and I leave. never bought or sold anything through that guy, doubt I ever will.
I wouldn't take David Weinstein too serious. He's like that with a lot of people and has a reputation for being rude. In fact he used to be worse than he is now. As he's gotten older I thinks he's mellowed out a little.
Coin # 1 was a 1797 half dime in a big, thick 3” X 3” Capital plastic holder. Upon careful examination I noted that the coin was bent and not just been mounted in the holder crooked.
Coin # 2, which was a 1795, was in a normal holder and looked attractive. When I looked at it with a 10X, however, I some irregularities in the “B” of “LIBERTY.” Sure enough the coin had been holed and plugged and the letters had been rather skillfully re-engraved.
Coin # 3 looked to be the best of all. It seemed to have a few light adjustment marks in the center, but looked to be original. When I asked the price the dealer said, $1,200, which was a couple hundred less than I would have expected. Intrigued, I got out my 10X again. Sure enough the “adjustment marks” were purposeful file marks that had been placed there to hide three initials that had been scratched into the neck of Ms. Liberty.
When I passed on the coin the dealer asked me why because he thought that the price was really attractive.
“The coin has had initials scratched in the neck,” I told him, “and someone has tried to hide them with what appear to be adjustment marks.”
“Oh? Good catch! I was going to tell you that before you bought the coin,” he replied.
Mentally I said to myself as I walked away, “Yea right!”
I saw him at a local show earlier this month. Walking by, I noticed he had one of the UK Instert PCGS slabs and remembered that Conder was looking for that one... after a few rounds, I went back and asked him for a business card, I knew someone who was interested in the coin...
him: "Oh, you mean that piece of crap? Picked it up somewhere, don't know why."
me: "Well, I know someone who collects slabs and needs that insert- could I have your business card so he can contact you?"
him: "I guess I might have one lying around somewhere (he goes behind his table and looks in his briefcase- seems pissed)
me: "Thank you for the card."
Don't know why he would be pissed for someone giving him a sales lead- especially to a coin he doesn't even like!
What put the nail in the coffin is that the staff made like they were doing me a favor by speaking with me when I was the only one in the shop. They are by far the closest shop to my home and workplace, I haven't been in there in years, and I have spent $10,000 on coins in the last year.
To be candid, I have no complaints re any of my encounters with dealers at the many Long Beach shows which I have attended.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
I don't mind a little haggle or theatrics that you see with flea market type vendors. That's part of the fun of those, and no one takes it personally. This was different. The dealer next to him politely turned away because it was embarrassing to everyone who was standing around when he did it.
Does anyone else see a problem with this approach? I know that we'd all rather have the other guy name a price, but if you're selling something shouldn't you know what you want for a coin? After all, you can always start high and come down later.
When dealing with cars and someone wouldn't tell me how much they wanted for their car, I'd quote them Blue Book and how cars were trading in relation to it. Most would appear offended and then let me know that they wanted retail for their car (and wholesale for the dealer's car). It would save a lot of time and energy if they'd just name their ridiculous price up front so I'd know I wasn't wasting my time.
Obscurum per obscurius
My own horror story has been posted here a couple of times. To paraphrase it :
Me: I would like to purchase one of each of the two Buffaloes in stock that are on special for $99
Dealer: OK we'll take care of that right away
Two weeks later, no coins. I call.
ME: I'd like to check on my order please.
Dealer: OK, let me see. Oh, that's been sent to shipping.
Me: Thank you, so I should recieve them shortly?
Dealer: Within a week
Me: thank you.
About one week later. I recieve the nicely whizzed coins and call to tell them to please send replacements(I had never ordered from them before so I thought I would give them the benefit)
Two weeks later.
Me: I would like to check on and order that I returned for a replacement.
Dealer: Oh we have recieved your return and are processing it.
Me: Any idea how long it might take.
Dealer: You should have your coins within a week.
Me: Thank you
One week later
ME: I would like to check on my order.
Dealer: OH, it's been sent to shipping(again!)
Me: Thank you
Finally recieve the second set of coins. These are worse than the first. Look like they have been through a tumbler or something.
I call:
ME: explain that I just want a refund and ask "Do you ever sell certified coins?"
Dealer: OH NO, never!
ME: Please remove me from your mailing list and I never plan on ordering again!
I then write a letter to NN about this company. Finally recieved a check for my $99 about three monthes after placing my original order.
old lady: how much are these Morgan dollars worth shirohniichan?
shirohniichan: how much will you take for them?
old lady: think my husband said he paid $2 each
shirohniichan: I'll give you $3 each
old lady: OK, I guess that's fair.
Well, for the kind of money he was going to make he wanted that sale. I won as the only bidder and went to see the coin. The guy was super nervous and almost shaking. I thought it odd but then again there are all types. He wanted my CC BEFORE I could look at the coin! I turned around and walked out. He comes running out after me with the coin. I took a glance at the coin and saw it had like mold / fungus growing on the rim. No need for a loupe on this one. I immediately rejected it and asked why he did not tell me over the phone. By now he is more sheepish than nervous.
The coin I am sure was digitally doctored or photoed way before the mold grew. Now, I no longer buy anything sight unseen or deal with unknown non approval dealers.
Edited: I forgot to mention since it is now "ok" to name names I can mention it was the Irvine Gold Mine [or something like that] in Irvine, CA
Most dealers at smaller shows aren't going to have much interest in a modern d-cam dime, so that can be a tough sell at a show.
LSCC#1864
Ebay Stuff
evp
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
And there was another suposedly reputable dealer who claimed that his offer of 50% of my PCGS slabbed coin wholesale value was due to the "well know fact" that grading companies overgrade 40-50% of the time therefore he would need to reduce his risk and make such a low offer, because this coin may fall in that category. He never really looked at the coin. I was so stunned because I really think he beleived his idiotic logic. Another idiot who makes his living off coins, but puzzles me as to why he is not starving.
No wonder most of these dealers hate Ebay.
Once at a show I handed a dealer the list of silver dollars I was looking for. He looks at the list and said "I probably have the coins you're looking for but I don't care to get them out." Taking back my list I said "I bet one of your competitors will care."
Even if a collector can’t afford a coin NOW that does not mean that the same collector can’t afford it LATER. Alienating him or her NOW can ruin your relationship with him FOREVER. Yes some people are a pain the butt, and somewhere along the line it can make sense to discourage them with some subtlety (e.g. quote high prices), but it’s really dumb to send someone away from the get-go.
Gee, I thought crito was a collector and not an ignorant little old lady... You learn something new every day!
If you, as a collector, can't tell a potential buyer what you want for a coin, there's something wrong. How would you like it if coin dealers came to your house and tried to sell you coins without telling you prices? If to your every inquiry they answered , "I dunno... what'll you give me for it?" you'd end up pretty tired of the game. It's the same way for dealrs when collectors walk over to their tables and claim not to know what they want for their coins. You can save a lot of time by not playing games and just telling someone your asking price. If you don't know the value of something, do your research before going to the show.
I see the same scenario replayed every week at my local dealer. Someone comes in with common date wheat cents, circulated bicentennial quarters, common date Morgans, etc. thinking they have the Mother Load in their bag. The dealer tells them, "We sell common date wheat cents for 7 cents each and buy them for 3 cents, the bicentennial coins you can spend or give to your kids, and the common date silver dollars we sell for $6 and buy for $4." If there's anything better than common date, he tells them. If a collector with a slabbed coin comes in and wants to sell something, the dealer asks what he wants for it.
If crito would have read how I dealt with people in the car business and not immediately assumed I was Evil incarnate, he'd have understood that I did indeed give people an idea what their cars were worth. Most of the time I found that people already did the research and wanted retail plus a little extra for their junk. If they would have said what they wanted for their junk ahead of time, I could have saved a lot of money. Collectors try to pull the same stuff with dealers all the time and want Red Book plus, Trends plus, CU Daily Price Guide plus, or some other retail number plus a little extra for their time. At the same time they expect under Blue Sheet for choice coins.
Are our panties unwadded yet?
Obscurum per obscurius
A negative comment was posted about Westwood, I've had the opposite experience with them several times.
Many on the board rave about a husband and wife team being nice and helpful, again I found the opposite!{very bad}
Most of us are collectors and they are dealers,{ night/day, cat/dog,David/Goliath}. Approaching them in a businesslike manner will help a lot when selling {IMHO and experience}
I wouldn't take any of the comments too seriously{including mine}, although I don't doubt any of the stories. Just my nickels worth.
regards, Tim
Tom
They are the "experts" and I expect them to quote not only sell prices but also buy prices.
If they are honest businessmen, then they should quote the "correct" prices to buy or sell their merchandise.
I do not agree that the general public will always be savvy as to the current and/or proper buy or sell prices. That's why you go to an "expert".
Joe.
I often set up with David (always at Long Beach) and he is exactly as described in these posts.....especially when it comes to what is commonly termed 'retail' clients. In other words, he's basically there to do dealer to dealer transactions and says he hates dealing with the public.
He and I are like alter-egos in that I really enjoy retail clients because I learn the most from them. It's sad that David's 'bedside manner' is the way it is because he's really a very bright numismatist and in most circumstances is a really nice guy.
GSAGUY
DMWJR: If you do spit the next time you go by his table, please try to avoid my toned dollars.
Do you table next to him so he makes you look even better??? LOL
David typically uses 3 showcases and I set up with a single. While I do spend some time behind the table I also spend a lot of time on the floor looking for bargains and visiting with my buddies. I don't recall your specific incident so I suspect I must have been gone when it happened. While frustrating, I wouldn't let it bother me long term. Next time you come by, he may be a totally different guy...........but then again.........he may be a jerk as well.
GSAGUY
P.S. Besides the 'side show' that is Weinstein, there are other benefits to sharing a table with him. Ever check out his helper?
That was David Weinstein at Parisppany a few weeks ago (with the British flag PCGS slabbed sovereign?)? If so, I have to say that he was perfectly cordial to me when I asked to look at a slabbed early (1840?) Coronet eagle that he had. His price was perhaps a few dollars too high for me, but I really just wanted to look at the coin. After he told me what he wanted, I told him I'd think about it and he asked what I wanted to pay. I didn't really want the coin, so I told him I was just "shopping." He seemed fine about it to me.
As far as Westwood goes, I bought a sovereign from them at a show about eight years ago. Like the story earlier in this thread, another dealer across the room had the coin. I asked what he wanted and he said $120. (I passed) A little while later, I noticed the coin was gone, and then I saw it in Westwood's case. I asked Bill Dominick what he wanted and he just pulled out his calculator and told me $94! I grabbed it.
I got a little turned off Westwood four or five years later, when I saw them at a show and their display case was absolutely full of ACG-slabbed double eagles. I hadn't heard of ACG at that time, but I didn't care for them using a slabber I'd never heard of, either. On the other hand, I've seen them at White Plains over the past year or two and I don't recall them having any ACG coins in their case anymore.
Check out the Southern Gold Society
<< <i>Are our panties unwadded yet? >>
Again Lucy can't comment with this one, I am really trying not to get ban'd from this great forum...
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
Constantly pestering dealers in this way will work to your disadvantage in the long run. Like the guy who always looks but never buys anything, the fellow who dangles coins in your face and asks for prices but never sells to you becomes a nuisance. Once you get the nuisance label, your ability to negotiate good deals in either direction is considerably reduced.
The exceptions are those who might have inherited a collection, know nothing about and are looking to sell. I will work with those people extensively. Still you can outlast your welcome there too.
For example a widow of collector who belonged to local club set out to sell his holdings. Many people in a local club tried to help her at first, but then she took such an attitude that everyone was out to cheat her that dealing with her became impossilbe. Yes, when a dealer buys a coin or token, he is buying with the expectation that he will resell it for more. There are real ethical questions as to how much more is proper, but to get mad because someone (not I) bought a coin for $100 and sold it at a show for $125 (including $6 in sales tax) is absurd.
It is just impractical to list a buy price for each and every coin.
Shouldn't a "Dealer" ethically quote what the coin is worth (to him)? After all, this is his business. The only reason I can think of for asking "What do you want for it?" is to possibly buy for less than it is worth to you or can you give other reasons?
I have seen many sell transactions to dealers where the dealer states what he will pay for the coins.
Joe.
I had a nice, near white, natural NGC 64 1932-S quarter. Graysheet bid was about $950 at the time. I offered it to a dealer for $850, figuring a quick sale and a quick profit for both of us. HE WHIPS OUT HIS BLUESHEET and says "I'll give you $425." After almost choking on my vomit, I remind him that the Bluesheet is for sight-unseen, expectedly butt-ugly coins. He looks at me like I'm from outerspace.
I later sold the coin on consignment for my price and enjoy walking by that dealer's table without so much as a glance.
A dealer has to size up the situation when a particular person offers to sell a coin. If the person does not know very much about coins, then I will spend to time to give them evaluations. If a person is obviously knowledgeable, then they are on a fishing expedition for the highest offer. In almost 9 years doing business, I’ve had ONE instance in which a person came back to me to sell a coin at a show after I had made an offer. And I’ve made offers on coins that I needed that are at or very close to Gray Sheet “bid.”
Another thing that you need to realize is that making an offer on a single coin is one thing. Spending the time to go though a group of items is another. If a guy has got a box of material and you spend time pricing it, that takes away from your selling time at the show. If that time is spent on a fruitless offer to buy for fair money, it is a waste of time.
You cited 5 reasons why collectors are tentative. Each one of those reasons is an argument for doing your homework or giving yourself a pep talk before you go to a show to sell your material. No, coins are not like stocks and bonds, which have established market prices. And yes when you sell coins, you have got to have the backbone to accept rejection. That’s one of the reasons why I tell people who are not interested in coins as collectors NOT to buy coins as an investment. The only coins that make any sense for them are bullion coins that trade at the precious metal prices, NOT collectors’ items. You can make some astute purchases of collector coins, but if you don’t have ability sell the coins when time comes or don’t want to chance an auction, the likelihood is slim that you will get a good return on your investment.
VEEP,
I really surprised that a dealer would low-ball you on a 1932-S quarter. Those coins are very much in demand and even overgraded, problem pieces trade between dealers at or above the bid levels. I don’t know what your coin looked like. Chances are the dealer’s offer was not fair or legitimate, but everybody has comfort levels for certain series, and that sometimes dictates what they will pay.
It’s a good idea to match the items you are selling with the dealer. If a guy has got a case full modern coins, he will probably be receptive to an offer for a 1932-S quarter. If his got a case full of early copper, bust half dollars or ancient coins, chances are he won’t be a competitive buyer. That’s why you can sometimes get a “deal” from dealers who end up with an odd piece that does not fit in their inventory.