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Wallowing in hypocrisy
CoinDr
Posts: 27
The collectors and dealers who ridicule Coin Currators and enhancers are the same type of people to scold those who smoke recreational weed on the weekends and get a little buzz working. They are also the same ones who are downing their prescription medications like there's no tomorrow and drowning their stress in a 40 ouncer.
So many guys here brag about placing their coins on the window sill and speeding up the toning process. You also talk the talk of sending in coins to a sanctioned service to have your coins professionally cleaned and restored.
Somehow all that legitimizes it.
Your top-of-the-water-heaters-in-the-damp-basement methods of toning were first experimented with back in the mid seventies. You act like you're inventing fire all over again.
I started a thread earlier about how to detect counterfeit toning. It works. Some of you claimed to have tried it without success. Only one of two scenerios could have taken place with you. You're either more stupid than the junk you collect or you really did not try the method but instead claimed toso as to stroke your ego with another entry and post count.
So many guys here brag about placing their coins on the window sill and speeding up the toning process. You also talk the talk of sending in coins to a sanctioned service to have your coins professionally cleaned and restored.
Somehow all that legitimizes it.
Your top-of-the-water-heaters-in-the-damp-basement methods of toning were first experimented with back in the mid seventies. You act like you're inventing fire all over again.
I started a thread earlier about how to detect counterfeit toning. It works. Some of you claimed to have tried it without success. Only one of two scenerios could have taken place with you. You're either more stupid than the junk you collect or you really did not try the method but instead claimed toso as to stroke your ego with another entry and post count.
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Russ, NCNE
Whats the matter CoinDr, didnt you get enough candy last night to fill your tummy.
Camelot
between real and artificial toning then this gift is worth far more than your ability to
impart attractive toning on coins.
And yes, this post does count. -and you're way behind.
<< <i>Only one of two scenerios could have taken place with you. You're either more stupid than the junk you collect or you really did not try the method but instead claimed toso as to stroke your ego with another entry and post count. >>
Actually, there's a third scenario you failed to mention. We were making fun of you. Moron.
Russ, NCNE
Camelot
Russ, NCNE
How do you know it was the in the mid 70's first and not the 40's or 50's?
<< <i>My, my, we are a sanctimonious little troll, aren't we?
Russ, NCNE >>
Ross, Where is it written you have to respond to every single thread on this board? You collect kennedy coins for god's sakes. Let it rest.
Just because you've been spanked in the past, what with your attempt to flame Anaconda and your lame attempt to win friends and influence collectors with your sad sack tells of EBAY woes, and "golly gee-wiz Beaver, look what I just bought" tells or fancy doesn't mean you are always amusing or your rantings and opinions a necessity.
Go ahead and take 12 cents out of petty cash and buy yourself a personality and a sense of humor.
Isn't it also about time you gave another seller a negative?
Opp's, added one more post to my count. At this rate I might break 1000.........IN ANOTHER YEAR!
(Russ, you're killing me tonight. LMAO!)
Joe
I just wanted to let you know I have missed your presence on these forums
Re-elect Bush in 2004... Dont let the Socialists brainwash you.
Bush 2004
Jeb 2008
KK 2016
I do really want to welcome you back Cob. Your extended leave was a most unfortunate time for the collectors here who have missed your dry humor and insightful, meaningless rants & raves.
Re-elect Bush in 2004... Dont let the Socialists brainwash you.
Bush 2004
Jeb 2008
KK 2016
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
and could you buy a personality for me too. Thanks.
Camelot
Russ, NCNE
To spice up his stories for Monday morning.Of course this is just a theory.
Camelot
WOW, its HOT in here!
Laura Sperber
lsperber1@hotmail.com
JUST SAY NO TO WANNABES! They lurk and prey on unwitting collectors in chatrooms!
<< <i>I think that Clank may be the Troll under an assumed name. To spice up his stories for Monday morning.Of course this is just a theory. >>
Mr. Bear - I'm shocked - no fruitcup for you tonite! Clankeroo is my hero!
<< <i>drowning their stress in a 40 ouncer. >>
CoinDr you should of quit on your second 40 ouncer.
<< <i>Your top-of-the-water-heaters-in-the-damp-basement methods of toning were first experimented with back in the mid seventies >>
It`s still being done today. So what`s your point?
<< <i>I started a thread earlier about how to detect counterfeit toning. It works. >>
WOW! You must be very proud of yourself.
designset
Treasury Seals Type Set
Maybe if we just all mellow out a little bit (just a thought, not a command) and be a little less sensitive, maybe we could encourage CoinDr. to stay and share some more info even if we don't like what he does. I have never artificially toned a single coin but would like to know more about detecting it. Maybe his information will be valuable to us, maybe not, but if we kick everyone in the butt who is thinks a little differently than we do, all we will end up being is a bunch of clones with crappy shoes.
I don't know, maybe I've missed something,
AGAIN, MAYBE I'VE MISSED SOMETHING.....
but the guy seems like he's trying to help by giving us some info. Coins aren't children - if someone wants to artificially tone a coin, he hasn't committed a crime - I'm not saying that I want to buy AT coins but what I am saying is that I sure would like to hear from someone who does it and can help me ID it - talkative ATers are none too common
adrian
(recovering in the burn unit and prepared to get flamed again)
It's, wet cold and nasty here in Texas so I have nothing better to do than watch the flames on the boards!
BTW Russ, get another 12 cents for me (but only get 6 cents for the 'Dr' since he already has half a personallity!)
Total Copper Nutcase - African, British Ships, Channel Islands!!!
'Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup'
going to have to stand in the corner of the classroom
all Monday morning. Is the teacher going to be ever so angrywith us all. A very naughty Bear
Camelot
my hotels
This is just what Clank might be looking for for Monday's show! Rumor has it he's short on material-NOT!!
designset
Treasury Seals Type Set
Hey Coin Dr. teach us how to tone our $35 Morgans into $1,000 Morgans, so that we can sell them to Adrian.
CG
Sometimes its just so confusing for a bear to bare without a beer.
Camelot
adrian
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
Loose the ego too.
Original coins with light toning may be turned into Monster coins with stunning, attractive toning. It doesn't work every time on every coin, but after going through a few bags honing your skills and speaking with others, much more knowledgable and aware (there goes that ego thing again) you begin to pick up methods that ring true more than they do not.
There are toning Doctors out there that wouldn't take a $50,000 check for their information. Why should they? More is made by keeping the information guarded and secreted away.
There are five professionals in the field and NO, I'm not one of them who pretty much own the field. Although I've been complimented as being in the second inner circle (whatever that means). That's a compliment that took me 22 years to earn.
When I got tired of the crack-out game where my killer months were off-set with the debts I ran up gambling on coins I had no business trying to bump up (a PROOF 66 Barber half comes to mind, painfully so), I turned to the more lucrative business of Coin Enhancement ( capitalization is mine). I was tired of grading fees that ran up to the thousands only to be left with coins that were tough to move, even at the higher grade.
The collectors were becoming a bit more sophisticated and were demanding the coins match up with the inserts. The high end 65's in 66 holders weren't cutting it unless there was a healthy discount. The next natural marketing move was not looking for the upgrade to stumble my way but to produce the upgrade myself. And, for the third mention on this thread, that's where my ego had to take a back seat if I was going to learn how to do this. It did and I did.
Of course it is impossible to supress my ego for long periods of time and thus my rantings earlier.
This isn't an apology, just an observation.
So, my first question is what will coins you toned today look like in 10 years - your best guess...
<< <i>If you're regularly fooling PCGS and NGC, you might have to struggle with a big ego.
So, my first question is what will coins you toned today look like in 10 years - your best guess... >>
They'll look like coins I worked on ten years ago, I guess, still attractive and holding there own. AT coins loosing it in the holders is a myth. If the color was good enough to get into the holder, it's good enough to stay put and not fade.
I'll never run a four minute mile.
I CAN tone coins.
To each his own.
I dont doubt that this is going on and the statement of the Coin Dr
has the ring , unfortunately of truth. I guess that I will stick to heavy black tarnish toning.
The natural color of old natural coins. But no more then at most ,1/16 inch of tarnish will
be acceptable. Bear
Camelot
<< <i>A question relating to Adrian's. What do you speculate about NCS's long term effects on the coins they treat. Certainly you can speculate as to their methods, do you feel those coins will remain stable? >>
I'm not in a position to comment as it will be biased and unfair. I know two of their new employees because they have assisted many collectors reach their collecting goals.
It bothered me, at first, that NGC (NCS) was making what I do honorable and respectable because THEY were involved in doing so. It's a dirty little secret when I perform the same talented curration.
What's ironic is they are also all set up to TONE your coins and trust me, they would if they thought the market would accept them doing so and they were not subject to criticism.
Who knows? Maybe that'll be the next big trend.
K S
<< <i>It bothered me, at first, that NGC (NCS) was making what I do honorable and respectable because THEY were involved in doing so. It's a dirty little secret when I perform the same talented curration >>
Sorry, but I must take issue with that. I don't see that what NCS is doing, makes what you say you're doing, "honorable and respectable". I don't claim to know how NCS treats coins. But, I have seen a lot of coins that they have treated/conserved. And, I feel that there is a big difference between removing or lightening toning, spots, whatever, from coins, vs. adding toning or substances in order to cover/hide defects. It might all be the same to you, but it is not to me. I don't claim that my view is necessarily right and that yours is wrong - just that they are apparently very different.
have you spoken to PCGS or NGC and shared any pointers with them and
are you confident that you are able to identify your product and the product of the other 5 coin doctors and
do you and your compadres focus on early material like bust dollars or later material like high grade moderns....
GSAGUY
Even when the grading services are horrible to everyone else, these guys know the "tricks" or secrets to mess with coins just a little (it can be something as slight a "thumbing" a coin) to change its appearance and to make it work. Detecting color, ya, thats easy for them. These guys actually like to compare their work with each other!
I have always been against these practices. The grading services are trying hard to catch these guys but can only detect so much. Its a combination that they ARE that good, and when a coin is messed with the appearance looks fresh while its at the service. It takes a few weeks or month for the quality if their work to show-whether or not the coin turns. Now not all coins do turn, but these guys just can't admit that they do ruin coins and that more often than not-a lot of their work does turn! They never see the majority of it come back in 5-10 years black like we do!
Guys like coinDr. can enhance coins real well. They CAN fool the graders. Obviously coin Dr. hasn't been doing all that well lately (I don't care what kind of BS he writes) and since he really can't brag to his peers, he'll brag here-something that I feel is the height of ignorance! I know NO successful "crackout" dealer who stopped because they "got tired". That means unsuccessful-or BUSTED! The best guys are still at it, and they have peaks and valleys of cuscccess, but when they roll they make more money than you can imagine. Would you quit that gig? I don't think so. Plus, as much as I DO believe collectors need to be educated about what to look for, there is no reason to discuss the methods of what a few "outlaws" think they can get away with. What he writes about NCS is more about jealousy than all the dark, spotted, or ugly coins they have helped. NCS does NOT enhance coins. It is stuppid to start a public debate on something the public has very little knowledge of to begin with. The collecting public are NOT dealers coin Dr.!
I think I know the whole game pretty well. This entire thread really burns me up. There is truth to it, but there is a lot of bravado too. If the grading services keep trying really hard, the amount of AT coins you'll see will remain a just a few. Make it really easy on yourself, if you ever have a question about a coins color, ask your dealer what they think (unless of course they sold it to you). For as much as coinDr wants to "teach" everyone, most people will never be able to pick up the subtle differences between enhanced or original color! I've watched this happen ever since ceritification began.
Laura Sperber
lsperber1@hotmail.com
JUST SAY NO TO WANNABES! They lurk and prey on unwitting collectors in chatrooms!
Most of us who cut our teeth in commercial lending (loaning money to companies) learn to weigh everything that is said when someone is trying to pry money from you, so far what he has said doesn't weigh a quarter-ounce. Nothing he said, I haven't heard from dealers or read about. In fact, every thing he has said so far just parrots articles I have read. He has never shared one scintilla of evidence that a true coin doctor of today knows. Instead he hides behind generalizations, like my expertise is too valuable or that only already toned coins can truly be forged (my word). This is not the statement he made when he first started shilling his so called 20 years of experience.
Let me point out the obvious, guys that do this that are really talented go where the money is. They don't try to hawk their wares on a coin bulletin board. He is obviously an intelligent person, but show me the money, back up your claims. You and I know he can't, he will continue to change the subject, did you notice he went from AT to coin conservation in a millisecond, just to try to impress us. There are always smarter people out their than us, this guy needs to realize this too.
This is not a personal attack on him, but just observations from listening to people like this for far too many years, I always want to reach behind and check and see if my wallet is still attached to my rear end.
What are your thoughts on this coin?