Washington quarters..the sky's the limit!
WashqrtrsRme
Posts: 137
Those of you who follow the Washington quarter registry (1932-1964) have probably noticed all the newcomers added to the registry in the last few weeks/days. Some of these new sets have already moved up near the top, one new set moving right into the no. 4 spot (ahead of me!). I think all of this is quite indicative of the great interest that now exists for this series, and there appears to be no end in sight. I truly believe that "the sky is the limit" for Washington quarters, and if you're not into this series by now, many will be hard-pressed to begin collecting it now with expectations of finding all the dates they need in grades at or above MS65, and some of those will be a real challenge as well.
This series is now getting the attention and respect which it rightfully deserves, and that I feel it has deserved for a long time. Up until about the time of the introduction of the State quarter program (1999), this series still was not getting anywhere near the collecting interest and respect it does now. I have followed the trends of this series closely over the last 4-5 years, and almost all dates in MS65, MS66 and MS67 have seen and certainly will continue to see a steady increase in retail values. For higher mint state grade coins, especially the early Denver dates ('32 of course, and '34, '35 and '36) I think that there's really no end in sight to where prices will be for these coins in the future...out of sight, most likely! The attention and focus now put on this series has brought to light that some other dates in the series, once thought to be common, are not so common. Demand is now beginning to overtake suppy. An example would be a 1955-D and a 1961-D in MS66...if you don't have these coins in your set yet, good luck finding them, as they just are nowhere to be found! If you collect this series, you know exactly what I'm talking about. How can a coin minted as recently as 1955 sell for upwards of $600. in MS66?! I can tell you how, because there are none to be found, and there is a population of only 78 in MS66 for this coin, with none higher and really nice MS66 examples are extremely tough to find!
I think all the new interest has really been a great "spark" for Washington quarters as well as for the collecting community. It amazes me to see how many people are now interested in collecting this series, compared to what things were like just a few short years ago. My advice to anyone interested in this series is to get in now, before it becomes unattainable to collect all the dates/mintmarks, for financial reasons and because of the unavailability of higher mint state graded coins. As mentioned, the way I see it, the sky truly does seem to be the limit for this series right now, as I believe is has nothing but great potential! It's going to be really interesting to see where retail prices will be at the end of the State quarter program in 2008. As a long-time Washington quarter collecter, all I can say is, I'm glad I got in when I did!
Tom Schiera
a.k.a. WashqrtrsRme
This series is now getting the attention and respect which it rightfully deserves, and that I feel it has deserved for a long time. Up until about the time of the introduction of the State quarter program (1999), this series still was not getting anywhere near the collecting interest and respect it does now. I have followed the trends of this series closely over the last 4-5 years, and almost all dates in MS65, MS66 and MS67 have seen and certainly will continue to see a steady increase in retail values. For higher mint state grade coins, especially the early Denver dates ('32 of course, and '34, '35 and '36) I think that there's really no end in sight to where prices will be for these coins in the future...out of sight, most likely! The attention and focus now put on this series has brought to light that some other dates in the series, once thought to be common, are not so common. Demand is now beginning to overtake suppy. An example would be a 1955-D and a 1961-D in MS66...if you don't have these coins in your set yet, good luck finding them, as they just are nowhere to be found! If you collect this series, you know exactly what I'm talking about. How can a coin minted as recently as 1955 sell for upwards of $600. in MS66?! I can tell you how, because there are none to be found, and there is a population of only 78 in MS66 for this coin, with none higher and really nice MS66 examples are extremely tough to find!
I think all the new interest has really been a great "spark" for Washington quarters as well as for the collecting community. It amazes me to see how many people are now interested in collecting this series, compared to what things were like just a few short years ago. My advice to anyone interested in this series is to get in now, before it becomes unattainable to collect all the dates/mintmarks, for financial reasons and because of the unavailability of higher mint state graded coins. As mentioned, the way I see it, the sky truly does seem to be the limit for this series right now, as I believe is has nothing but great potential! It's going to be really interesting to see where retail prices will be at the end of the State quarter program in 2008. As a long-time Washington quarter collecter, all I can say is, I'm glad I got in when I did!
Tom Schiera
a.k.a. WashqrtrsRme
0
Comments
<< <i>My advice to anyone interested in this series is to get in now, before it becomes unattainable to collect all the dates/mintmarks, for financial reasons and because of the unavailability of higher mint state graded coins. >>
I think you should get into collecting a series that you like an not one that you are getting into it because prices may be higher down the road. More collectors may get into quarters, but I hope they collect them because they like to and want to, and not because now is the time.
Cameron Kiefer
You bring to light the best and most important point of all, and I agree with you completely! Collect coins/a series of coins because you like them, not because of the possibilty of there being higher prices/elusive dates in the future.
Excellent point of view...thank you!
Tom Schiera
Wondercoin.
Steve: My comments were, of course, directed at Tom's post regarding silver Wash quarters.
However, as far as the 1976(s) Wash in MS68 you mentioned, understand that the coin was never a "$450" coin in my opinion. The coin was around a $250-$300 coin at its high that has moved down to around $150-$200 today for a "typical" example. Of course, one can always point to a high sale, but remember that PCGS has never graded an MS69 of this date and I might probably pay around $5000 to buy the first one, if one is graded. So, it is possible that even today I would happily pay $500-$1000 sight-seen for a 1976(s) silver quarter in PCGS-MS68. True collectors of these Wash quarters are not buying these coins based upon a "plastic" sheet price. They are buying the coin. Anyone can always send me "PQ" finest known Wash quarters, silver or clad, and I will happily pay multiples of ebay "last sales" information for the right coins.
Wondercoin.
I also believe we are near the top of THIS RALLY in the rare coin market. That is not to say that the bull market in coins is over -- I believe it is far from over. But I do believe that it is time for the market to finally react to other economic factors including damage to the stock market, the drop in consumer confidence, and the continuing strong housing market which is sucking in cash from all sources including stocks, bonds, collectibles and coins.
A pause to refresh the market will help the long term trend for market prices to continue their rise. The worst thing is for a market to go straight up, because like an arrow shot into the air it will come straight down.
The bottom line is to buy what you like because you just might be buying at what will be later called a "market peak."
cheers, alan mendelson
www.AlanBestBuys.com
www.VegasBestBuys.com
And as for Wondercoin and some of the coins on his site, I need help convincing my wife that her new car is not that important in the grand view of things. That fifty cents I could get from you if we sold her car would look SO much better here and take up far less space in the garage.
One can only hope that this does not overflow into the clad washingtons, as I still have some work to do on the clads as well. Although with the prices I have been forced to pay over there, it seems it is creeping into those too. Looks like I may be forced to go back to my second love since it is so much cheaper and continue on my gold coin collecting.
This rise in washington quarter prices was at first, a correction of the stagnation in quarter prices that has really happened over excess of 20 plus years!!
Now the prices are rising on insider buying and also increased demand. It will continue but will moderate as this series desperately needs a breather!!!
If a new design is selected after the statehood designs expire that will only add more fuel to the fire.
After starting my high grade (1932-1998) collection (near completion), I have found the market to be much slower than before the summer.
I do agree with Tom for the long-term, but I believe the slowdown is due to people getting a little tired of the series. Many of the new entries in the registry are people who have collected over a long period of time and decided to register their sets. They didnt start this series 3 months ago. It is CHALLENGING and takes a long time to find the right specimens.
The state quarter market collapsed awhile ago and has not brought in many new Washington collectors. The only way to get new collectors at this point is when the market slows.
Common dates sell for about $40 in MS66 now. The early dates and MS67 coins will always be good investments, but again, have been slower than before.
I do see the market picking up recently. A 1951S MS67 sold for $1,100 on eBay today. I bought a really nice one over the summer for under $600.
As for the clads. The market was "nuclear" before the summer, but has been thinly traded at best. Low pops are increasing and some coins selling for $500 in the late spring are now selling at $150. I like this set best for its potential.
Wondercoin -- I think your market (top-pop and extremely low pop coins) will always be hot!! I dont think that applies to most of us. Not everyone is looking to be #1 or even #5. And I too wish I had your hindsight. I would have completed my set 5 years ago for a fraction of what it cost today.
Anyway, to summarize, this RALLY has slowed and with the state quarter market dead, not too many new collectors, I see, will be coming aboard.
Take the slowdown as an opportunity to get into a very nice series!! i have enjoyed it thoroughly.
Thank you for your thread
As you know, I completed my basic Washington set about the same time as you, but I've continued to buy some of the not-so-common dates in MS66. The prices for some of those are down a bit, and today's prices seem like real bargains to me. I've studied the population reports since 1988, and when I saw a '55-D in MS66 and it had a population of 1 coin (circa 1996), I figured it was a scarce coin and didn't mind paying almost $40 for it. Other than the obvious key dates from the 1930's, the dates that I feel are the toughest in MS66 are the '41-D, '48-D (untoned), '49-P (NOT mint set toned), '52-D, '53-D, '54-D, '55-D, '56-D (white), and '61-D. I'll buy any and all of these that I can find at a decent price. They're more elusive than most people think.
I've noticed that there have been a lot fewer of the better dates being offered on eBay and Teletrade in recent months. I don't know if this is due to a decrease in interest in the series, lower prices, or because the supply is drying up.
Sealyp, good luck in locating the clad Washingtons from 1983-1994 in MS67. Perhaps more of these will become available as mint sets are broken up. Original rolls are practically non-existent.
Based on what I've read in Coin World, it seems likely that we'll be seeing a new design for the quarter after the Statehood series has run its course. We may see all denominations redesigned over the next few years, which would really stimulate interest in the hobby.
Jim
Well put!! I agree with everything you said, especially the tough date white coins. I was fortunate to find all of them in white, even the 55D. Bu toyu left out what I think could be one of the toughest to find "White", 1952 (P). I would be willing to pay a premium for this coin in MS66 if anyone has one.
Whitewashqtr
in a year. I jumped right in and began assembling a 65 set. After 2 years of looking at coins that were doing
nothing, I slowly liquidated. He was ultimately right however. It just took the better part of 25 years for it to
happen.
roadrunner
In my opinion, WWQ, "hit the nail on the head" (without actually saying it) of why Wash quarters have been so strong of late and may continue to show strength for some time to come.
Consider this brilliant 1952(p) in PCGS-MS66, which WWQ is "willing to pay a premium for". I own a couple of these coins right now - and will I offer one to WWQ? Heck no! Not because I don't like WWQ -I do like WWQ and would love to fill his order. Simply because the premium I would want to sell one would be very large, because I've known this coin is super tough to locate for years now.
A regular, typically toned, 1952(p) quarter in PCGS-MS66 might be obtainable for around $40 today. Now, if a nice blast white PCGS-MS66 came up for auction and I was aware of the auction, I suspect a record price would be the result, whether I win or lose. And, after the auction, folks might dismiss the auction result as "two crazy collectors fighting for a coin", but I would know differently and so would the fellow who beat me or lost to me. And, this is a major reason I personally believe Wash quarters will show strength for some time to come - namely, the fact that there are many, many "sleeper" coins in the series in certain grades or appearances (white vs. toned) and when they become available, they will be fought for.
Just my two cents.
Wondercoin.
<< <i>I agree with your assessment that the state quater program has caused interest in all Washington quarters, but I'm beginning to think that we're at the top. Recently the 1976 silver Washington in MS68 went from a being a $450 coin to a $150 coin (based on eBay sales). I wonder if the 32-64 dates are also declining. >>
The 32-64 series has been in free fall price wise of late. The top pops and rarer dates are still climbing, but the more common dates in 65 and 66 can be picked up for almost nothing right now. Recent ebay sales of many of the silver series in the 50's and 60's seem like they would barely cover gradeing fees. I know I just picked several 50's dates for under 12.00 a coin. The other thing I have noticed, is that many of the more recently graded 65 coins are VERY nice coins. In fact, I am embarrased to admit, one of my newest 65 (it was a high doller one at 12 bucks for a 54-D) is a far superior coin to my 66. So as long as these common dates are price depressed, I'll hold the price up to the 10-12 $ range and see what I can get. After all, you can never have to many nice Washingtons!
Sealyp: You have correctly separated what is going on with Wash quarters best I can tell. First, finest known coins and better date coins have been getting stronger and stronger with each passing month for quite some time now. Second, the "bulk grading" stuff has been dieing a slow death for years now. I stopped doing "bulk grading" on Wash quarters about 2+ years ago and haven't given PCGS another submission batch of "bulk" silver quarters since then. Once a "modern" coin achieves 500 or 700 specimens in the more common grade of MS65 or even MS66 depending upon the coin date, it is not surprising the price on that coin may drop and drop and drop as there are simply not 700 PCGS collectors of non-"pop top" coins who can buy and buy and buy and support a certain price level. I saw that coming years ago and decided to stop pouring thousands of dollars of grading fees down the drain on such coins. A 1947(s) quarter in PCGS-MS65 is basically a "COMMON" coin.
IMHO, a series of coins (like Wash quarters) is not in "free fall" because common coins that get slabbed through bulk grading are crashing in price. Just the opposite - as bulk submitters quit (as I did years ago), the occasional MS67 that also gets graded along with the 500 MS65/66 coins may not be - only making the "pop top" coins that much harder to locate.
Wondercoin
Andy
First POTD 9/19/05!!
This is typical of many modern series. The trick is to figure out which issues are truly scarce, and time the acquisition right. I am totally out of post 1964 coins now (except for my 20th century type pieces) but would guess the same analysis needs to be done in Kennedies, statehood quarters, Lincoln Memorials, clad quarters, or anything else.
What is different about say Walkers, also described as hot by David Hall, is that even the comon grades have a demand. MS65 late date Walkers are very common in most dates and mintmarks. Yet they are pretty easy sellers at $100 or so. Compare to common Washingtons in the 40s like the 47S. You almost have to give 65s away.
Greg S.
ZAPS COINS
Bob
WANTED 1943 AU or better (11-O-1)
by way of the obsolete clad quarter. The day will soon come that a pop 700
coin is considered quite scarce.
I just picked up a 1958 PCGS MS-67 quarter for $51 and a 1947 PCGS MS-66 for $37.10 on ebay tonight.
The 1958 looked to be from a mint set and the 1947 looked very pretty relatively untoned.
Here is a link to the 1947 obverse. It looks nice.
1947 obverse
A 1949-D in PCGS MS-66 sold for $57. I was the underbidder. I think I was asleep at the switch on that one.
Registry 1909-1958 Proof Lincolns
BTW, I picked up an absolutely gorgeous MS66 1949-D Washington PCGS with beautiful original mint set toning on Ebay 2 or 3 months back for $28. That was one of my best buys there yet.
Andy, opinion #1 is that you "ripped" that coin
Andy, you have been around here for a long, long time and you are a very highly respected member. Think about what you have asked me to do here and you will realize why I am happy to assist you via PM anytime you have a question regarding a Wash quarter, but have no interest in responding here. The line between providing very interesting and useful information and "hyping" Wash quarters (not to mention the coins I presently own) in the eyes of the forum members is never "black and white". I am not interested in debating that point
Here I am mumbling about a missed 1949-D in MS-66 for $57 and you NOW TELL US about one you picked up for $28????????
I must really be hibernating instead of sleeping at the switch!!!!!!!
Edited to add: Found the original post here. Some nice contrasting comments. Old Link to 49-D
Sorry but the Ebay link is too old to work anymore.
1958 quarter
This was the 1949-D quarter I was the underbidder on at $57. It looked like an end of the roll quarter. Comments?
1949-D quarter
Don't really like the 49D with the print on the obverse. Looks like you dropped at just the right time
Greg
Mitch:
We never would believe that you would try to hype anything here. But, we sure enjoy your comments even when we disagree.
Greg
Since I havent been able to find a nice 58P, MS67 all White or even close to it, a 66 still resides in my set!!
However, I don't open them up and I just like to dream about them. This ios why I asked for comments on them.
I happen to like the 1947 quarter I picked up more than the 1958 quarter myself as I do have a preference for the frosty/crusty white quarters as well. True the 1947 quarter is not all that frosty but it did look clean and unblemished.
I was originally using those two or three quarters to ask if there has been a sudden price change the other way...or was it the world series that distracted everyone?
Looking back at my descriptions of the three quartgers I never called the 1949-D or 1958 quarters nice.
However I did call the 1947 nice.
Interesting!
And, from the scan, while your 58(p) is below average IMHO, you paid far less for it than what a pretty MS66 would cost. Here is another example of collectors paying a price in line with the quality of the coin and not, per se, the holder. At the last major Heritage sale, I had to pay nearly $500 to buy a 1957(d) quarter in PCGS-MS66. Now, of course, you can buy PCGS-MS67 coins of that date for way less than $500. But, the MS66 was real pretty. I have been noticing lately that certain coins have been selling more often for what they are and not what they necessarily say on the holder, especially at major auctions. Wondercoin
The good, the bad and the ugly. But most importantly, you have given some solid facts and opinions that will help others discern their purchases.
It is true that even when one gets a "good buy" on an unattractive coin that eventually all they will remember is the looks of the coin long after the price is forgotten.
I would like to see you offer some pictorial examples regarding the 1957-D in pretty MS-66 versus the poor MS-67. There are a lot of young aspiring collectors who need to see this.
Yes, wondercoin, the 1947-P date is indeed tougher than the D or S mint and it shows up on the roll prices as well. The original bank wrapped 1947-P roll was one of the tougher rolls to find in the 1940's decade.
I concur with you regarding the 47P. It is a tougher date than the common 47D, 47S in MS67.
Wondercoin's points, with which I share, should be noted by collectors of this series. After all, that is the point(s) we were trying to make.
Here is my blast white 57D in 66. I think this is an outstanding coin. Very tough to find untoned and a candidate for an upgrade on a good day! If I can get by the only tick in the hairline. Which certainly doesnt detract.
1957D
1957-D quarter PCGS MS-66
IMHO, where Wash quarters have great potential from here is in color coins like this piece. Now, this coin commanded around 20x for the color at this auction, as compared to a typical MS66 of this date. It would not have surprised me if the coin would have commanded closer to 40x. The coin also sold well over the typical price for an MS67. And, what would one rather have - a beautiful MS66 coin with a tick on the cheek (covered by monster color) or a "technically" slightly cleaner coin with dull, liefeless color and appeal, as many 1957(d) quarters in MS67 grade come?
This auction, and many like it, is proof positive that collectors, Registry or otherwise, are "buying the coin, not the holder". As new collectors enter the Wash quarter arena and current students of the series graduate in their learing curve, they will learn which coins are near impossible to locate in super gem grades with "blast white" surfaces. They will also learn to greatly appreciate magnificent original color coins, just like the silver Commem collectors have loved for years. I would not be surprised to see the "special" coins setting new "world record prices" as more and more advanced collectors discover which coins are the elusive ones and set their scopes on those coins when they become available on the market.
Meanwhile, IMHO, the "bulk" graded "one grade under coins" should continue to do nothing and I suspect below average quality coins for the grade are likely to do little as well.
So, an interesting question here is "How is the state of the market of a series actually measured"? Is a series "nuclear" where the "color coins", "pop tops" and "under 10 pops" are on fire. Or, is the market "dead" when the average to low end pieces and the "one grade under" bulk coins are doing nothing but dropping in price? Or, is this the classic "glass half full vs. glass half empty" situation?
I love the last paragraph of the post!! The truly says it all. Great comments!!
I agree with most, that the commons are getting cheaper while the keys and semi-keys keep getting more exspensive for the reasons already stated. Less than a year ago on eBay, a MS66 1940-D went without selling for less than $400. The other day, one went for $566! However, there are some sellers out there that think of themselves as market makers and would like to set their own "market price" on the the harder dates. This, I feel, is also putting price pressure on those dates.
Case in point:
'42-S less than three weeks ago
Same '42-S today(check the cert #)!
What make these GREEDY sellers think that they can out-bid others interested only to double their money on those same interested parties?!? This same seller states in some of his listings that these keys are getting harder to find because collectors are hoarding them. Nothing about how some sellers are sniping them only to "flip" them for double their money!!!
I have had "words" with this seller, and now I'm not permitted to bid on his auctions!
Big deal! Now I can't "watch" his auctions w/a $1 bid!
Mitch,
That '57-D almost looks as nice as the MS67 that you sold me!
I reallyb/] appreciate all the Washingtons that I've gotten from you. They are all in the tops of my set!
Oreville,
You're gonna love that '47-P (ifin ya like clean blast white ones!)!
I also think that you will be pleasently surprised with the '58. Aaron's pictures tend to be dark and miss a lot of the luster. Let us know.
On another note...Can anyone explain why a '42, '45, or '46 doesn't bring the prices that a '40-D, 41-S, or '42-S does? Check the pops. The '40-D has the highest, yet fetches the highest prices!
Regards,
Don
You are absolutely right about the 45(p), 46(p) etc. More "undervalued" coins, which should really move up in the years ahead.
Quick story. As you know, I bought the Dolga quarter collection earlier this year, which had many lovely coins. But, I bascially passed on one coin in the set - his very attractive 1946(p) in PCGS-MS67. Don was asking a very strong price for the coin (which I totally understood) and I love nicely toned Wash quarters. But, I have a blast white PCGS-MS67 coin. A coin that I bought for R. Green many years ago as either the pop 1/0 or pop 2/0 coin and repurchased after his set was broken up. The coin is pedigreed "Richard Green". This date is so rare in PCGS-MS67 blast white that even a very pretty toned coin would never replace the blast white specimen. I have never heard of another blast white coin of this date existing above a PCGS-MS66 grade (and even those are tough to locate). If a blast white PCGS-MS67 1946(p) quarter ever appeared at public auction I could only imagine what the coin might sell for. No doubt, a "world record" for the date.
Thanks!
Andy
First POTD 9/19/05!!
<< <i>Can anyone explain why a '42, '45, or '46 doesn't bring the prices that a '40-D, 41-S, or '42-S does? Check the pops. The '40-D has the highest, yet fetches the highest prices >>
Don,
The '40-D and '42-S were considered to be scarce dates long before slabs came along. Rolls of the '42-P, '45-P, and '46-P were readily available, and even the '41-S could be found with some searching. The tough dates were slabbed in far greater numbers during the early years of PCGS's and NGC's existence. Here are the populations in 65/66/67 from the August 1988 PCGS Population Report:
40-D 110/8/1
41-S 12/6/0
42-P 9/2/0
42-S 29/7/1
45-P 3/2/0
46-P 3/2/0
It wasn't until the past 3 years that "common" date Washingtons were slabbed in large quantities. It will be interesting to see what the populations look like in another 5 or 10 years. I would expect the "traditionally" scarce dates to regain their former status by 2010, along with a handful of dates that were previously thought to be common.
Whitewashqtr, I also had to search for a long time to find the right '57-D in white MS66. After seeing lots of (IMO) ugly mint set toned coins, my efforts were rewarded with the coin in the link below.
p.s. I'm still looking for a '56-D in MS66 that looks like this. Anybody have an extra one laying around?
Jim
I have about 4 BU rolls of the 56-D quarters. Someday I will look again. I seem to remember them looking better than ok but don't recall if they looked like that 57-D.
I can't see the third "D" on my coin through 16x as I can see the markers for it in your picture. I will say though that the doubling on my coin is more pronounced than your picture. Where did you find the information about the "D/D/D"?
Andy
First POTD 9/19/05!!
Incidentally, I meant to respond to something you said earlier. A repunched mint mark is something totally unrelated to die doubling. Yes, you can have both on the same coin, but they will be the result of two different things. An RPM is simply that -- a mint mark that was repunched, but no in exactly the same spot as the first punch. Die doubling occurs in a separate process, as best described in Wexler's book on quarter doubled dies. If you see "doubling" that appears on the devices as well as the mint mark, it is most likely the result of strike or mechanical doubling. When the mint changed the process for putting mint marks on quarters some time in the late 80's, doubling could occur in the same way on both the mint mark and the devices -- but never on quarters before 1980.
Can you e-mail me a photo of the RPM? I would very much like to see it.
Doug
dwright@communityeldercare.com
I don't have a digital camera as yet, which is one of the things I'm asking for Christmas!
Thanks,
Andy
First POTD 9/19/05!!