Speculation - Where is the Kennedy Series Going Down The Road?
FC57Coins
Posts: 9,140 ✭
I was wondering what folks here think about the Kennedy series and where it's headed. High grade Ike's have gone through the roof and it seems that not many people have paid attention to clad coinage. With the series being possibly replaced in some way as early as 2006 perhaps, what do you guys think of the collectability of these?
Frank
Frank
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Comments
Russ, NCNE
Wonder how long it takes Russ to find this thread
edit... should of known Russ would snipe me.
-Jarrett Roberts
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
<< <i>Kennedy's are junk. Nobody should collect them.
Russ, NCNE >>
I concur... especially the high end proof kennedys
-Jarrett Roberts
-Jarrett Roberts
<< <i>A pop 23 64d just went for $866. Is that strong or weak? >>
DHRC auction. Based on recent trends, that's a surprisingly strong price.
Russ, NCNE
Frank
<< <i>Lucy... I have seen you cautioning against Franklins before... do you have a registry set? >>
I am just trying to do the coin collecting community a favor and remove as many as these GHASTLY Franklins from the market as possible, we all have to be good citizens and I have decided to make the huge sacrifice and help in this troubled area... The Rockin' Radio Registry set is just to kill time...Really.....
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
al h.
<< <i>Where is the Kennedy Series Going Down The Road? >>
into Russ's collection I would imagine. He almost owns a complete Monopoly of the series as it stands. Give him a little time, and they'll be none left for the rest of us!!!!!!!
be large numbers of uncs especially some dates, but by and large these are not high
grade. Kennedy gems are much easier to find than Ike gems but they are are from
common. Kennedy rolls have always been harder to find than other current rolls so
they are harder to get a handle on, but for many dates gems are virtually non-exist-
ent in rolls and one must turn to mint sets. It should also be noted that this series
has not been as completely ignored as some of the other circulating coins. People have
been collecting these since the beginning and only time will tell if they set aside more
coins than just what they needed for their collections.
There has long been more attrition for mint sets with gem halfs than for those with
typical coins.
Past year saw some incredible prices... over the last few months the prices came down.
Still, finding certain dates in MS-66 + grades is a b i t c h !
I believe the series is still underrated and will see it's day!
Rusty.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
al h.
Alot of Kennedy's were made, True.
but not too many years see alot of MS66 + coins. MS65 yes
Pops for most MS-67 are under 50 pieces!
Rusty
1. Stay away from proofs. "For the most part" proof pops are through the roof and the prices have been falling. Some dates are not even worth the price of the slab. The only ones I see with a future are the SMS high grade cameo or better.
2. Collect only MS high grade 66 or better (preferably better) with an eye for quality and low pop numbers.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
1. They are still minting them, even though they should have killed the series long ago (they're used less than even the ill-fated dollar coins). Collectors seem to prefer obsolete sets.
2. As compared to the much shorter Ike series, there are a pile of Kennedys in the series. If you spent the same amount on each Kennedy as on top-grade Ikes, you'd have to drop $500K. Not many collectors have half a mil' to spend on Kennedys.
Though I guess neither problem has stopped those whacky Lincoln collectors.
4. Plurality confusion -- variously written as Kennedys, Kennedy's, Kennedies. Not to mention halves vs. halfs.
5. Russ likes them.
Billman,
I agree, but I see that as a wonderful thing. If you're a collector, and not an investor, then you would hope they would fall to face value in the slab. I don't really care if they ever become valuable. That isn't why I collect. I would love to buy PR69 Dcams in PCGS plastic for $10 per coin, and would move on to another series upon completion. As for the MS coins being sleepers in MS66+, I can't help but agree. I wonder however if it is logical to collect any series you expect to complete and not collect both PR and MS coins.
BTW - And for my next wish, I'd like to see $10 Indians and SLQ's fall to $10 each.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
People "collected" these coins by the roll back in the 60s & 70s & 80s and maybe still today. These rolls will be broken and slabbed the market froth continues.
Forget the pops on these as every grading service has tons in high grades.
I cn only eplain the current prices as "Registry Envy" and a rush to complete sets. Won't last.
hey don
i guess i fall somewhere in the illogical group with regards to kennedy's and some other moderns. while i do collect both proofs and MS coins in the series it's only the silver issues that interest me. i don't particularly like the way the coin strikes up in clad but i did pick up a sweet 73 proof set today because of the half---ultra-squared obverse frost!!!
al h.
The silver strikes all look like real coins to me, the Kennedys, Ikes, and Washingtons. Don't get me wrong, I collect them all (clads too), but the silver coins look like a coin is supposed to look, 100% better than the clads. I love the satin luster. The clads to me look like what they are, the same design struck on a cheaper planchet. Frosty proofs are also hard to resist. They bring out the artistry of the design. As for my earlier comment, I mean if you consider yourself a "series" collector, wouldn't you collect all the coins in the series? IMO the registry illogically divides the MS/PR coins into seperate categories. I don't compete there anymore, so my opinion is just that.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
with my beloved jefferson's i collect PR/MS. i understand your point about collecting the entire series. with type coins i lean towards MS coins, though i'm going to post in modern Proof type eventually since i have many of the coins already. i lean towards mint state overall because i just believe it's more of a challenge finding the higher grades when the coins have received no special care.
collecting an entire PR/MS set of jeffersons is like kennedy's x 2!!!! i look at the half's as being a really big nickel. nice coins, both being not among the most popular series' which is good from my lofty perch!!
al h.
DesertLizard: If you think you can pull a MS-67 Kennedy out of a roll you are mistaken!
I have a hard time pulling MS-66's out of mint sets!
Try 'em see how far you'll get!
Rusty.
For those who collect only the very best, at least from it says on PCGS slabs, the situaiton might be different. Those coins might continue to sell for very high prices, but I would never bet my money on them.
If any of you would like to get some perspective about what true rarity is, check out the lead article on this month's Gray Sheet "CDN Monthly Supplement Newsletter" by Jim McGuigan. The article is entitled "Early U.S. Type, Challenging and Interesting." This article will give you some perspectives on what is true rarity and what is marketing hype.
Joe
P.S. Same could be said for Franklins & Walking Libertys. 400,000,000 - 500,000,000 minted?
Can't say you see any on a day to day basis (collectors excepted)
I always wonder where the heck all of these coins are hiding. Over 400,000,000 of just the 1964s were minted
where do you think all the silver eagles came from? thank you Hunt Brothers!! all those 64-70 kennedy's that are MIA just changed their names and addresses.
al h.
Joe
I pretty much agree with your market assesment, but IMO, that sort of misses my point. Do coins have to be rare to be collectible? I wouldn't recommend paying premiums for common coins, but part of the joy of collecting moderns is that you can still search raw coins looking for a gem. As for the plastic, I'm currently building a registry set of MS Kennedys with a goal of $12 per coin in MS65+. Not directed at you Bill because you didn't say otherwise, but we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Just because moderns are available shouldn't suggest we should ignore them. I guess my point was that it is important to decide whether you're investing or collecting. If you're collecting, why wouldn't you want the coins to be inexpensive? As for true rarities, I appreciate their difficulty, but difficulty alone doesn't make them desireable. Part of the reality of the hobby is the likelyhood many collectors will ever own a true rarity. I'm sure that's part of the long lived popularity of the Lincoln series. I'm unsure of the bell curve, but I would imagine 90% of the coin collectors who are active participants in the hobby don't own a coin valued over $5000, and never will. If rarities are unattainable for most without altering their financial priorities, what should they collect? Common coins for common collectors has a nice ring to it. That's why they're popular.
BTW - When I buy my $10 Indian type coin, I'll call you first. The coin you posted the pic of a while ago was stunning.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
Ikes were put away, but many of these have been busted up or degraded by poor storage.
and even mid grade Ikes were tough in rolls and bags.
Halfs were put away, and possibly in significant quantities. Mid grade Kennedy's are in these
bags but few high grade.
Dimes and quarters were virtually ignored. The few rolls that exist will produce very few nice
attractive coins.
Nickels were saved a little. Especially the early years. High grade nickels are rare even in mint
sets- - very rare.
Cents have been saved in large numbers, but even here there are some dates that were over-
looked. And some dates which were very poorly made.
The important question for the long term is less how many were saved than how many people
collected them, anyway. It means little that Joe schmoe saved a roll of 1965 quarters if he
didn't even care enough about them to see that they were quality coins. It doesn't matter if
he saved many rolls if he tired of waiting for a better price and spent them in 1972. Even if he
saved a bag and has kept them in the basement all these years he'll find that 4,000 corroded
coins are just hard to spend pocket change.
There's nothing wrong with old rare coins, but this really is the problem- - there's nothing wrong
with them. Demand is strong and they tend to be fully priced. They have attractive designs and
are often struck in precious metal, but this too just adds to their appeal and their price. The only
problem with them is that they have been so welll researched for so many years that the chances
of finding something new is very slim even for the well heeled collector. If you want to know some-
thing about an old rare coin all you have to do is look it up.
Some folks around here don't seem to understand that there is nothing wrong with modern coins
either. Most aren't nearly so rare, but demand is very slack. This creates absurdly low prices for
many of them. These sometimes have attractive designs and are sometimes struck in precious
metal, but here again demand is suppressed for many that aren't (and some that are). These coins
are not only poorly researched, but lots of hem have never even been looked at. There are lots of
unreported varieties and if you don't know something you'll probably have to figure it out on your
own. Even the tightest collector can form an impressive collection.
bags but few high grade.
Thank you, CladKing... exactly what I was saying!
Rusty.
As for how many JFK half dollars have been saved, you would be amazed at the number of copper-nickel clad pieces that people have hoarded over the years. Whenever I go over a hoard of silver coins, I almost always see some clad JFK half dollars mixed with the good stuff. These non-collectors are really surprised when I tell them to spend them or take them to the bank. And yes, there are some Mint State although not gem Mint State coins among them.
As for the 1964 JFK half dollars, yes the mintage was high, but a lot of those coins were melted when silver was over $30 and ounce. Still there is pretty a big supply of Choice Mint State examples left. There are certainly enough of them around to provide one to any collector who really wants it.
It truly amazes me how certain people put words in my mouth whenever I make comments about the value of modern coins. I've concluded that these individuals have a vested financial interest in pushing the modern coin market, and that they somehow view me as threat. Well, I think you are giving me too much credit. Those who are predisposed to pay high prices for these coins will continue to do so regardless of what I have to say. And at least I know that when I get negative response that someone is reading what I write.
As for the little guy owning a truly rare United States item, it is quite possible. All you have to do is get into the realm of U.S. tokens, medals and medalets. For example I just completed an article about the campaign tokens that were issued for the 1876 presidential election. Among them are a group of satirical pieces that were issued after the election by dissident Democrats who were critical of their presidential candidate, Samuel J. Tilden.
I have attached pictures of one of these pieces. Believe it or not just 25 of these pieces were made in brass. There were also five made in silver, 25 in copper and 25 in white metal for a total mintage of less than 100 pieces. Today you can buy the non-silver pieces for somewhere in the $100 to $150 range when you can find them in exonumia auctions. That’s not bad for a token that has a history that can take several paragraphs to cover.
Collectables come in many forms, and if you want to collect truly rare things that few other collectors can own, all you have to do is to think out of the box.
Russ, NCNE
.........sorta like what happened with morgan dollars since they stopped making 'em.
.........sorta like what happened with the 1950-D nickel.
.........sorta like what happened with large cents during the 1933 bank holiday.
every time there is an influx of anything in large enough quantity it will affect prices in a good way or in a bad way. i don't think that is restricted to moderns. the fact that ??millions?? of kennedy's are somewhere being held by someone is rather intriguing. i think i know who and i think i know where-----Uncle Sam, federal reserve banks.
al h.
You don’t see any games with the early coins, however. There are just not enough to make it any fun.
Do you think I did that?
Rusty.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
HOWEVER, I just won another auction of Yahoo! Auctions for a 1981-S Kennedy PCGS PR69DCAM for $7.00!!!! That's right, only $7 bucks!! Plus $4 for shipping! Still, that has got to be below the cost of even getting the coins graded. Click here for those of you how have access to Yahoo! Auctions to see. I put my bid in ~5 days before the close of the auction at the opening bid of $7, and was very surprised that it held up.
So, maybe the Kennedy series isn't going anywhere fast? But for $7, I'll buy PR69DCAM's all day long!
Spoken like a coin lover, not an investor. If they go to $1, I'll be thrilled to buy several more sets for my kids. I sure wish the Bust Halves would do the same!
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
<< <i>BillJones: It truly amazes me how certain people put words in my mouth whenever I make comments about the value of modern coins.
Do you think I did that?
Rusty. >>
Bill Jones: I hope you don't think I did that. If so, you might want to look at the first couple of sentences in your first post.
that moderns will increase in popularity and price as it is that I think the hobby can only survive if
newbies move into the old coins which won't happen without their going through the moderns. And
while I agree that no one will have a great impact on what people around here collect, it is possible
to get them to try to be a little more helpful and encouraging to the newbies, which migh have a sig-
nificant effect on how many of them stick around.
It can not help the hobby to tell new collectors that the coins they are interested in are overpriced, in
abundant supply, a bubble, etc., etc., etc. Granted some of these criticisims have been toned down a
lot, but if they are necessary then they should at least be accurate.