Karl, I have to tell you, I carefully examined the photos after reading your post about the differences in the two photos of the 1799 dollar. I'm convinced they are the same coin, with the ebay one being a slightly doctored version of the one on the DLRC site. I only see similarities where you say there are differences.
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
Karl, I hate to say it, but you really are making another mistake. Don't take one little thing as a possibility and try to make it overshadow the rest of the bad stuff. There is enough stuff here to make ANYONE, including yourself, skeptical.
sunglasses, zero feedback, swiped pictures, HUGE money to be lost. If he only finds one fool to "buy" one thing, he will profit.
This is a bad, bad person who is going to take someone's money if s/he can.
Dorkkarl your embarassing yourself. I can find many similarities in those two 1799 to convince anyone there the same coin. how about small mark under the "O" of "OF". seen in Lawerence photo. In lawerence photo obvious line through "O" of "OF" and if you look close to e-bay photo you can see the impressions of where the line is running through the "O" too many of these marks on both coins besides the obvious large identicle look. You need to learn about varities better.
The similarities (wear pattern on the cheek, color, lighting direction, size of pic, etc.) far outweigh the differences (the tics in the field are easily covered up).
I understand, Karl. When I went to the DLRC site the first time to look for the coin (before the Linky) I noticed that they had an AU50 and an AU55. I had to look back to the post to see which one it was.
PS - I'm still right about Deb Greenman!!!! (Just kidding, don't take the bait!)
Everyone needs to be able to express their opinions here, even if others disagree.
I can't wait to see how this turns out. If it wouldn't wreck my ebay ID and feedback, I'd bid a jillion on some of his auctions (above BIN) just to keep others from falling into the trap.
masterful-collections already got a couple people - a $1500 sale and a $1000 sale last Sunday - not coins but I guess they decided to make a big score quick (over $500,000) listed I'm guessing. I wish I would have been reading this message board before buying any coins off of ebay. After buying outrageously graded raw coins for way too much money I am now severely raw coin shy.
I sent an E-Mail to the buyer of the Magic Cards he sold with BIN. I asked the buyer if he has been contacted and if he has gotten his items. I also included a line to this thread. I'm still wondering if this guy thinks he can actually get away with this, he has one hell of a set of brass balls!!!!
It is not exactly cheating, I prefer to consider it creative problem solving!!!
1] Ebay will do nothing to stop auctions. The guy has not broken any TOS that I am aware. Police would do nothing, no crime has been comitted. It is not a crime to nab a pic. Now if he takes money and does not deliver the coin then you have a crime. By then it is too late.
2] It is probably a kid having "fun".
3] No one will actually send in any money.
4] We will never know as he will be NARUed by ebay in next 10 days.
However, anyone dumb enough to send that kind of money to a sunglass seller holding a private auction deserves to lose it!
Are you joking? I don't possibly see what would lead you to that conclusion. A lot of effort went in to taking those images, writing, and posting the auctions.... A kid? I just can't see it.
And no disrespect intended to you, Desertlizard. I just don't think this is the case.
BOOOOOO-YAAAAAAAAA!!! All his listings have been ended by ebay and he's been NARU'd. (took about 5 hours)
Here's the note I got from ebay.
Please note that we have recently ended all listings for the seller 'masterful-collections' due to our inability to confirm the seller's contact information and/or their inability to deliver the merchandise advertised on our site. The seller's privileges to trade on eBay have been temporarily suspended while we investigate this matter further.
agentjim007- I was just about to suggest you let Ebay know you were detailing when they were notified of this problem, just how many potential dollars were at stake and how long it was taking them to act upon this matter and that it was your intent to contact the author of the recent article on fraud done by MSNBC. I thought that might help speed them up.
Then I clicked on your link for the 1799 and received the message that the auction was no longer in Ebay's databank.
Good work, folks! I see all of these auctions have been removed. In fact, it looks like the seller has somehow even erased their very existance (or did Ebay) as they weren't simply ended...they aren't on the seller's "finished" auction list.
Good work, AgentJim and the rest of the Anti-Fraud Team!!
AgentJim007, got a license to kill baby! This was some very good work. Everyone of you who did the homework on this and notified eBay can feel very good about this. This wasn't some small time dink rip-off, and I don't believe it was a kid, or a prank. Way to go, guys.
I would like to thank and congratulate EVERYONE who posted on this and the related thread(s) and thereby contributed to getting the seller's auctions pulled. I can't tell you how good I felt when I learned that the good guys had won this round - it was truly exhilarating.
The issues/points raised, the detective work, confirmations, questioning of the process or evidence (which, to me, was a good thing, as it caused me to slow down, take a breath and re-examine what were some very serious allegations, to make sure we weren't jumping the gun), communication and teamwork - all of it played an important role. All of you should feel very good about what you accomplished. I am truly proud to have been even a samll part of a wonderful group effort.
may i suggest to all that in the future, should any seller rip pix from your server, that until the auctions are shut down that the pix 'owner' CHANGE the picture to a blatant warning of 'a rip-off in progress' message.
Guys here is an idea. The last person who was stealing scans of old auctions of mine and using the link was in for a REAL surprise! Just replace the scans at your site with somethink like "THIS SELLER IS A SCAM ARTIST" or use your imagination of what you can replace it with. Funny thing is once you do this, the seller can't do Jack Squat because the link is to YOUR site! Even if he ends the auction(s) early the images will still show up in the ended auction.
I also read an article about a group of fraud busters that bid outrageous amounts on obviously frauduent auctions, effectively saving some victims. Of course, you wouldn't want to use your own id that you've established to do so. But I know that some people are frustrated with eBay's response to fraud on their site and take matters into their own hands.
I like your ideas alot, but it appeared that, at least in some of the cases, some of the images had been altered in some way. This makes me think it wasn't merely a link that was used. I know very little about this stuff, so perhaps you can educate me.
mark, first, some rip off artists are sooooooo lazy that they will link to your server for the pix. this guy apparently copied the pix to his own box and retouched them and then uploaded them again.
ALSO, COPYRIGHT YOUR PICTURES ON YOUR WEB SITE WITH AN OVERLAY!!!!!!!!! should any azz steal them, you have a wonderful case to pursue them both for copyright infringment ( federal civil - you could get a settlement out of it) and attempted fraud - even if they don't complete the auction (criminal - they'll probably get a wrist slap but but guys like me will make 'em pay...well, my time isn't free!).
Last night, I was just about to start using "buy it now" on the seller's listings which I knew contained images of our coins, when I learned that the auctions had been pulled. I figured that it might have caused me problems with Ebay but that it was worth the potential sacrifice. Who knows, if something like this comes up again and Ebay doesn't act, maybe we, as a group, could each "buy" one item of the seller's, and thereby, hopefully not have one person get in trouble for taking it upon himself. Just a thought for next time......
There have been a bunch of times I wished I had a "throwaway" eBay account for things like this- buy it, get it offa there, and hopefully get the seller charged a hefty bunch of final value fees. If they NARU my throwaway account, so be it. But I haven't done that. LordM is and has always been my one-and-only eBay identity. I know some guys on the eBay boards that have secondary ID's they use for causing mischief (usually of the harmless variety).
Comments
From DLRC's web site:
Okay, Karl, tell us that isn't the same coin.
Russ, NCNE
K S
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
sunglasses, zero feedback, swiped pictures, HUGE money to be lost. If he only finds one fool to "buy" one thing, he will profit.
This is a bad, bad person who is going to take someone's money if s/he can.
how about small mark under the "O" of "OF". seen in Lawerence photo. In lawerence photo obvious line through "O" of "OF" and if you look close to e-bay photo you can see the impressions of where the line is running through the "O" too many of these marks on both coins besides the obvious large identicle look. You need to learn about varities better.
This is fraud, pure and simple. I do not think it is time to play "devil's advocate."
And, as a former prosecutor, the Constitutional rights you mention relate to government action, not that by private parties.
JAMES
Auction
DL Coin
The similarities (wear pattern on the cheek, color, lighting direction, size of pic, etc.) far outweigh the differences (the tics in the field are easily covered up).
Dan
<< <i>Just got this from ebay:
Thank you for taking time to notify us about these items. We appreciate your efforts in helping us maintain a safe trading environment.
eBay wants you to know that the following items have been reported and are under investigation:
1387543415
1387543442
1387543951
1387543536
blah, blah, blah.....
mark-I think you are right on the others. dont expect ebay to do jack sh#t.
Dan >>
I RETRACT MY EARLIER STATEMENTS, AND CONCUR THAT THEY ARE THE SAME 1799 SILVER DOLLARS. i agree 100% with that assertion!
my apologies to all for my mistake, i am sorry. you are 100% correct, i was wrong!
GO GET HIM!!!
K S
LSCC#1864
Ebay Stuff
"Senorita HepKitty"
"I want a real cool Kitty from Hepcat City, to stay in step with me" - Bill Carter
Russ, NCNE
PS - I'm still right about Deb Greenman!!!! (Just kidding, don't take the bait!)
You've always been a good guy. We weren't fooled.
Everyone needs to be able to express their opinions here, even if others disagree.
I can't wait to see how this turns out. If it wouldn't wreck my ebay ID and feedback, I'd bid a jillion on some of his auctions (above BIN) just to keep others from falling into the trap.
K S
if you are a registered EBAY user, you can get his contact information via ebay. It looks like the guy actually has the ID verify thing also.
See where the guy lives and call his local police agency that would have jurisdiction over where he is. Of course, that is if his info is correct.
It's Fraud!
I hope I get them
I hope he swings high
Tom
I tried to get the info from Ebay and it didn't work. I am considering "buying" lots of his items tomorrow, though.
Joe
1] Ebay will do nothing to stop auctions. The guy has not broken any TOS that I am aware. Police would do nothing, no crime has been comitted. It is not a crime to nab a pic. Now if he takes money and does not deliver the coin then you have a crime. By then it is too late.
2] It is probably a kid having "fun".
3] No one will actually send in any money.
4] We will never know as he will be NARUed by ebay in next 10 days.
However, anyone dumb enough to send that kind of money to a sunglass seller holding a private auction deserves to lose it!
<< <i>It is probably a kid having "fun". >>
Are you joking? I don't possibly see what would lead you to that conclusion. A lot of effort went in to taking those images, writing, and posting the auctions.... A kid? I just can't see it.
And no disrespect intended to you, Desertlizard. I just don't think this is the case.
He can get his funds via Paypal and he's gone in 4 minutes.
see? My Auctions "Got any 1800's gold?"
Here's the note I got from ebay.
Please note that we have recently ended all listings for the seller 'masterful-collections' due to our inability to confirm the seller's contact information and/or their inability to deliver the merchandise advertised on our site. The seller's privileges to trade on eBay have been temporarily suspended while we investigate this matter further.
Dan
I was just about to suggest you let Ebay know you were detailing when they were notified of this problem, just how many potential dollars were at stake and how long it was taking them to act upon this matter and that it was your intent to contact the author of the recent article on fraud done by MSNBC. I thought that might help speed them up.
Then I clicked on your link for the 1799 and received the message that the auction was no longer in Ebay's databank.
Great job!
Good work, AgentJim and the rest of the Anti-Fraud Team!!
Unfortunately this scag will probably be back with another ID and other products.
Eisenhower Dollar, BU
Set Incomplete:
Roosevelt Dime
1900 - Current Type, No Gold
Silver Eagle
regretably, i doubt that this is the last we'll hear of him.
K S
The issues/points raised, the detective work, confirmations, questioning of the process or evidence (which, to me, was a good thing, as it caused me to slow down, take a breath and re-examine what were some very serious allegations, to make sure we weren't jumping the gun), communication and teamwork - all of it played an important role. All of you should feel very good about what you accomplished. I am truly proud to have been even a samll part of a wonderful group effort.
This is a great example of the good of this message board. A group effort to right a wrong.
I am totally impressed.
Joe.
may i suggest to all that in the future, should any seller rip pix from your server, that until the auctions are shut down that the pix 'owner' CHANGE the picture to a blatant warning of 'a rip-off in progress' message.
HAVE FUN!
I also read an article about a group of fraud busters that bid outrageous amounts on obviously frauduent auctions, effectively saving some victims. Of course, you wouldn't want to use your own id that you've established to do so. But I know that some people are frustrated with eBay's response to fraud on their site and take matters into their own hands.
I like your ideas alot, but it appeared that, at least in some of the cases, some of the images had been altered in some way. This makes me think it wasn't merely a link that was used. I know very little about this stuff, so perhaps you can educate me.
first, some rip off artists are sooooooo lazy that they will link to your server for the pix. this guy apparently copied the pix to his own box and retouched them and then uploaded them again.
ALSO, COPYRIGHT YOUR PICTURES ON YOUR WEB SITE WITH AN OVERLAY!!!!!!!!! should any azz steal them, you have a wonderful case to pursue them both for copyright infringment ( federal civil - you could get a settlement out of it) and attempted fraud - even if they don't complete the auction (criminal - they'll probably get a wrist slap but but guys like me will make 'em pay...well, my time isn't free!).
<< <i>AgentJim007, got a license to kill baby! >>
That was some mighty fine shootin', Jim.
I also note the arrival of Sinin1 to our forum. Weclome aboard.
Last night, I was just about to start using "buy it now" on the seller's listings which I knew contained images of our coins, when I learned that the auctions had been pulled. I figured that it might have caused me problems with Ebay but that it was worth the potential sacrifice. Who knows, if something like this comes up again and Ebay doesn't act, maybe we, as a group, could each "buy" one item of the seller's, and thereby, hopefully not have one person get in trouble for taking it upon himself. Just a thought for next time......