What do you want from a dealer at a show?
coinguy1
Posts: 13,484 ✭✭✭
The recent "discussion" about TAGZ brings to mind something I often wonder about - when you approach a dealer's table at a coin show what do you want or expect? Would you prefer that the dealer immediately greet you? That he immediately ask if he can show you something? Or, would you prefer that he not speak to you or bother you unless and until you ask if you can examine some of his coins?
I ask these questions because, working for a retailer and dealing with clients (or strangers) at coin shows, I get the feeling that different people have different preferences. Some people seem uncomfortable if we speak to them first, while others appear to prefer that we ask if we can show them something.
Usually, I'll say something like "please let me know if I can show you anything" and then I'll stay out of their way unless they indicate they want my attention. Or, if I see that they are looking at a particular type of coin or series, I might ask if they are working on a set or just looking for individual pieces.
I will say, in defense of some dealers who might appear rude or inattentive at shows (believe me, I know that plenty are), sometimes they might not know that the customer is wanting to look at something or to speak to them. Often, while at our table at shows, I am writing coin descriptions for our website, on the phone with a client or speaking with company personnel. If a person at the table doesn't say something to me to get my attention at those times, he might mistakenly think that I don't care about his business.
I will be out of town for a couple of days and will very much look forward to seeing your replies when I return.
I ask these questions because, working for a retailer and dealing with clients (or strangers) at coin shows, I get the feeling that different people have different preferences. Some people seem uncomfortable if we speak to them first, while others appear to prefer that we ask if we can show them something.
Usually, I'll say something like "please let me know if I can show you anything" and then I'll stay out of their way unless they indicate they want my attention. Or, if I see that they are looking at a particular type of coin or series, I might ask if they are working on a set or just looking for individual pieces.
I will say, in defense of some dealers who might appear rude or inattentive at shows (believe me, I know that plenty are), sometimes they might not know that the customer is wanting to look at something or to speak to them. Often, while at our table at shows, I am writing coin descriptions for our website, on the phone with a client or speaking with company personnel. If a person at the table doesn't say something to me to get my attention at those times, he might mistakenly think that I don't care about his business.
I will be out of town for a couple of days and will very much look forward to seeing your replies when I return.
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Comments
As far as what I want: Exactly what you've said. A simple "how can I help you" and then let me look until I see something that might be interesting. Things I do NOT like:
1) Having to look around junk sitting on a table. Such as another dealers Grey Sheets.
2) Annoyed looks when I say "not for me" or "no thanks". Or ones that get offended if I offer a price. A simple "no" is suffice not a dirty look.
Good thread.
jom
EDIT: Oh...one other thing. The next dealer that tells me I'm "unethical" for trying to sell a coin THEY don't think is up to the grading standard of the service that graded my coin (PCGS in this case) I'm gonna kick their a$$.
Usually, I'll say something like "please let me know if I can show you anything" and then I'll stay out of their way unless they indicate they want my attention.
Works for me....one thing everyone has to remember at a show...things are usually very busy and you don't always get that personal attention everyone likes! If there is a coin I would like to discuss with the dealer and things are busy, I come back in a few.
For me...just let me look and I'll be sure to let you know what I want to look at. It is nice to be greeted and inquired upon in reference to what you may be collecting, etc. but not necessary. If it's for me I make an offer, wait for a counter offer and take it or leave it. I try not to waste anyone's time (including my own)!
I have waited at tables for 10-15 minutes trying to get someone's attention to look at a coin....only to move on because the dealer(s) acts like you are not there....money out of their pocket. If it happens again I usually don't go back to that table again.
All in all, I think most dealers do a pretty good job at the shows!
Check out my PQ selection of Morgan & Peace Dollars, and more at:
WWW.PQDOLLARS.COM or WWW.GILBERTCOINS.COM
-Jarrett Roberts
In the dealers defense, it does get annoying being asked "less than informed" questions all day - I've heard some real doozies hanging around the table and marvel how some dealers can hold their composure - by the end of a week I would feel like a caged animal with all the folks at the zoo poking sticks at me!
Then I will be patient until I see something I'm interested in takeing a closer look at.
I then try to wait until the dealer can devote me a few moments.I know that they are busy and probably trying to do a dozen things at the same time.
If I'm a repeat customer,I expect at least to be acknowledged as a knowledgeable collector."Not an idiot",or novice collector.I hate to be treated that way!!!!
This approach has worked well for me most of the time.
Registry 1909-1958 Proof Lincolns
When I approach a dealer's table at a coin show for the first time, I like it best if he (or she) says: "Hello" and "Let me know if I can help you with anything."
On the other hand, if it's a dealer I've been doing business with for years, I like "Hi Dave, How ya doin?"
If I'm at a big, multi-day show, I try to be understanding of the dealers who are busy writing up invoices, etc. When I was at Baltimore last Spring, I was at the table of a dealer who had his back turned. After I had been at his table a couple of minutes and obviously deciding whether to interrupt him, his neighbor called out "Hey Bob, you've got a customer" He turned around and asked me to come back in a half hour when he'd be done with his paperwork, which was fine with me.
Now, if I get to a dealer's table and he's got a bunch of the "boys" around and they're blocking access to his table while they exchange gossip, I shamelessly eavesdrop, since it's usually the best market information I can get!
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Joe
Actually, from a service standpoint, the only thing I really want is honesty. Excessive smiling, cheerfullness and ass-kissing make me suspicious. The dealer can be a little grumpy, or even a little arrogant, but try to BS me and I'm gone - forever.
Russ, NCNE
<< <i>it does get annoying being asked "less than informed" questions all day >>
Hehe, a coin dealer should spend a day in my business if they want a real taste of that - computers.
Russ, NCNE
Despite all these negatives dealers go into the business voluntarily. If they are going to deal with the public this is what they have to face. If they cannot deal with it then they are in the wrong business.
Mark's approach suits me, "please let me know if I can show you anything", is courteous and acknowledges one's presence.
Dealer's who are too hungry to make a sale scare me off, never to return. I can count the number of "good" dealers on both hands at the LB show. Many were too busy gossiping [should have stayed home], eating, talking on the phone, etc. to deal with someone right there. Then those same ones wonder why they had so little sales!
A friendly greeting is nice as well as knowing the dealer is accessible when the time comes, but I prefer to look around at everything before being asked for assistance. Dealers like Pinnacle have too much to absorb in one run through so I'll often backtrack. At the recent LB show one dealer made a comment that he 'felt more like a museum curator today' while I was at the table. A bit of a turnoff but I understand his feelings -- what he sells is not what I buy, but I still enjoyed looking. A dealer with more foresight might consider that all "lookers" are potential clients somewhere down the road.
I don't think this is an area you need to work on very hard. To me it's all about attitude. Some get it, others make me wonder why they're doing this for a living.
<< <i>What type of business do you have, Russ? >>
Custom built systems and small business network integration mostly, but also some repair and upgrade work and some parts sales.
Russ, NCNE
I like a simple "Let me know if you need any help" and then being allowed to make a preliminary look over the material without feeling like a couple of eyes are watching my every move. Initially, I don't like being distracted when trying to get a take on a large amount of coins. It takes a little focus. If after having some time to take things in, things progress to wanting to see particular coins, then I like it to get a little more social. But, when I first approach a table, I like some quiet time to study.
My one exception is the Pinnacle table, where I storm up, demand to be referred to as "Your Eminence" and will not even stoop to looking at a coin before I have been served a very dry martini with a twist.
a fair offer for coins i'm trying to sell. mostly what i get is lowball insults.
al h.
You ask a very good question.
I think it is appropriate for the dealer behind the table to very briefly and quickly smile at me and just say ``Hi.'' It is the polite thing to do. I know that a dealer has to keep scanning -- for customers and for security reasons. But, when a stranger approaches you, it is always appropriate to act civil to him.
If the person lingers ever so slightly, then I think it is ok to say: ``Can I help you with anything?''
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
I like what happened at the Pinnacle Table that was at the Washington PNG Show last year. I believe it was Scott that welcomed myself with a Good Morning that acknowledged he had seen me and then let me brouse the items at the Table without interruptions. When I inatiated a conversation he was quick to reply and very coutreous. No Hype, just down to earth and polite. Eventually his conduct sold Pinnacle a coin from thier Web Site. Actually I think it was three coins.
Pushy Dealers I have no use for. Dealers that are busy doing something I can take a few minutes and wait for thier attention.
Ken
Then again, I'm looking for the COIN and if it's in a Dealer's case and that Dealer is grumpy- what do I care?
I'm there to buy coins I want- not date the Dealer.
peacockcoins
If I need help I will ask. Just leave me alone & let me look.
If you do say "Good morning please let me know if I can show you anything, cute little girl you got there what's her name, how old is she, is she gonna be a collector" etc shows me you are polite, friendly & courteous and I won't hold that against you but unnecessary yack yack distracts me.
If you are rude to me I won't hesitate to embarrass you or cause a scene.
POB 854
Temecula CA 92593
310-541-7222 office
310-710-2869 cell
www.LSRarecoins.com
Larry@LSRarecoins.com
PCGS Las Vegas June 24-26
Baltimore July 14-17
Chicago August 11-15
As a collector, I would ask for simple courtesy. Hellp and feel free to look around. Let me know if there is anything you would like to inspect.
Please don't insult the coins I am offering for sale, unless you have a good reason. For example, I took a good sized group of Buffalos with me to one of my local shops today. The finer condition coins and rare dates were all in 2 x 2's. The dealer looked them over and said he would prefer not to insult me with an offer as he had more of these than he needed and would not be willing to buy them unless the price was very right. The perfect answer in my opinion.
Please don't try to pawn off cleaned coins on me.
Please don't tell me how the market is just right for acquiring "these coins".
And, since we have a grading standard, please don't tell me this 58 SHOULD HAVE graded 63 and if you don't sell the coin you are sending it back for re-grading. Want 63 money? Then get it regraded and we can talk about 63 money.
I am going to my first show in ages in Lakeland this coming weekend, and having not been to a show in two decades, am unsure what to expect.
I'm probably a little different from most people in that all I want to do is to look at the coins in the dealer's display. I appreciate when the coins are displayed in order that I can scan them quickly. I know that dealers are busy and have to watch a sizable inventory so if I need anything I will ask. But a Hi and let me know if there is anything I can help you with is fine.
The one aggravating thing is when a dealer ignores a customer or just continues to talk to another dealer and makes you wait. More than likely I will just walk away.
Great post.
Joshua
.....back to the top in case anyone missed it.
Check out my PQ selection of Morgan & Peace Dollars, and more at:
WWW.PQDOLLARS.COM or WWW.GILBERTCOINS.COM
I actually prefer to be left alone when looking at coins. Now, if a dealer is particularly nice, or friendly, or an expert, or I know them, I can enjoy chatting if I have the time but otherwise, just let me look at the coins. I hate the 'used car salesman' approach.
However, if a dealer is rude or obnoxious to me or others, I go look elsewhere.
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I haven't experienced much glad-handing going on. I've usually felt I can look at my leisure. I might have to wait my turn to ask a question or look at particular items. People have been curt from time to time, but there hasn't been much memorable rudeness, and very little pushiness.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
Don't treat me like an ignoramus.
Don't get offended because I want to pay for the coin, not the slab.
Don't BANG/FLING or otherwise mishandles coins, especially publicly - it makes me wonder how much better the coin would be if you didn't have it.
I guess the bottom line is I'm a polite and decent guy; be the same way.
This, Mark, is the best approach. And the one I like the most!
The consensus was nearly unanimous and certainly not asking for too much - you guys would like to be politely acknowledged/greeted and treated with courtesy, sincerity and respect.
One exception was Russ, who stated "I want the very best, premium monster coins at stupidly low prices."
Russ, I don't know why you haven't approached us at shows because we've been running a special on the very best, premium monster coins at half of Bluesheet. Unfortunately, the special offer just expired.
Oh, one other exception was Clankeye, who said "My one exception is the Pinnacle table, where I storm up, demand to be referred to as "Your Eminence" and will not even stoop to looking at a coin before I have been served a very dry martini with a twist."
Clankeye, I mean your Eminence, would you settle for bottled water or a soda?
A few observations on a more serious note:
I think any dealer who assumes that someone at their table can't afford a particular coin and treats that person badly, is lacking in intelligence! The way a potential customer looks, talks or dresses is by no means indicative of how much that person might spend.
Coin sales should be are more important than lunch!
Keets raised an interesting issue, that could probably be the subject of a lengthy thread, when he said "What do you want from a dealer at a show? a fair offer for coins I'm trying to sell. mostly what i get is lowball insults."
If we are offered coins that we don't typically deal in or have need for and feel that we would not be able to make a competitive offer, we tell the person something to the effect of "We don't handle this type of material and don't think we would be your best bet for good prices. You might try so and so...."
I will say, though, even if the coins are ones we would like to purchase and we are willing to pay strong prices for them, we are often hesitant to make offers at shows. Let's say someone has a coin that we feel is worth $1000 and we offer that for it. In almost EVERY instance, the person will say "let me think about" it and walk away. Then, he ends up showing it to another dealer. And, that dealer, who, without knowing what we had offered might have only offered $500 for it to try to "rip" it, ends up buying it for slightly over what we offered. Making offers to non dealers at shows is almost always a guaranteed lose proposition for the person making the offer, no matter how fair his offer is. But, we still do it sometimes, in the hopes that we will be treated fairly by the person showing us the coins. Again, this might make for an interesting thread on its own!
Again, thanks for all of your feedback - I assure you that I read each and every post.
Frank
And, don't worry about "unloading" here, BUT don't forget to pay each board member the $100/hour therapy fee you agreed to (in the fine print) when you joined the forum. That is a discounted rate.
By the way, we feel that there is nothing wrong with disagreeing with the grading of the major grading services and pass on many, many coins for each one we purchase. And, there are plenty of coins that are properly graded, but that we still don't like, for one reason or another.
Larry
POB 854
Temecula CA 92593
310-541-7222 office
310-710-2869 cell
www.LSRarecoins.com
Larry@LSRarecoins.com
PCGS Las Vegas June 24-26
Baltimore July 14-17
Chicago August 11-15
A really good thread.
People usually know what they don't like but have difficulty expressing what they expect. The feed back is theraputic for the responders and perhaps helpful to you as a representative of Pinacles at many shows.
regards,
All I want is a unhindered look at the coin(s), a price when I ask for it, and change,if I`m getting any.I don`t care if Satan himself was selling the coin(s).
<< <i>"We don't handle this type of material and don't think we would be your best bet for good prices. You might try so and so...." >>
Mark, thanks for the interesting thread. I respond best to the approach you have described as the Pinnacle approach.
The problem I have had at shows hasn't been mentioned. I usually have a particular coin or series as my top priority at a show. I also know that everything a dealer brings to the show is not on his table so I frequently ask if a dealer has any of the material I am interested in behind the table (i.e. "Do you have any slabbed silver Washingtons that are not on display?"). I am really turned off by dealers who take this opportunity to run down your item of interest instead of simply stating that they don't have such inventory. I have heard things like "No, we don't carry that stuff since no one interested in it and we can't move it."
On the other hand, I have had top dealers like Pinnacle, actually recommend another dealer at the show that has some of the items I am looking to purchase. I always let the dealer know who referred me to them. I also find myself returning to the original dealer to buy those second and third priority items I had on my show list.
I'll fold up my soapbox now.
You are correct on both counts. And, from our perspective, the feedback is extremely important. In fact, when I passed it along to the owners of Pinnacle, I was given a fairly lengthy list of other subjects they would like to have presented to the board, in order to elicit more feedback/preferences. But, I don't want to overload everyone so I will do it a little bit at a time!
How can it be that you guys are getting it so right. And other companies out there are getting it so wrong? It just doesn't seem like it should be that difficult to me. I am profoundly amazed that there seems to be such apathy about customer service on the most basic levels in the world. Not just coins.
The place where my wife works just let one of their customer service reps go yesterday. Why? Because three complaints came in about the person in one day. He was refered to as arrogant, imperious, and one woman said she hadn't ordered from the company in over a year because she was afraid to talk to the guy. It took them this long to let him go?
For the life of me I can't understand why more companies don't seem interested in finding out what their customers really want, or what they are saying about them.
If you are taking it seriously (which it seems you are) about listening and learning from your potential customer base, then you are so far ahead of the game it isn't even funny.
Again... I shake my head at some of the things I read and think it just shouldn't be so difficult! I tip my hat to you for making the effort.
Don't fold up your soapbox - your getting upset about people "running down" items of interest to you is a legitimate one. Ditto for people getting upset when they offer something for sale and immediately get bombarded with insulting comments about their coins.
And, thank you for the kind words.
Just for the record, I'd like to remind everyone here that there are lots of dealers that do get it right.
One dealer educated me on the issues behind selling coins to dealers -- just what Mark described. This dealer was extremely nice about it. I did actually sell my wares to him, and he said, ``Since these coins are mine now, would you like me to point out some of the problems with these coins?'' I was ecstatic that he took the time to educate me on some ethics as well as on numismatics.
Another dealer with whom I've had a long and very pleasant relationship explained to me early on in our dealings that he needs to deal with me in such a way as to cultivate a long-term relationship. When I have coins to sell, I'll generally show him. If he can't make me what in his mind is a fair offer, then he'll happily direct me to someone whom he feels can give me a better offer.
I have another dealer friend for whom I am his supplier in fine cigars. He is my supplier (or finder) of fine coins. He knows exactly what I like, and loves to find coins -- his or other dealer's -- that will just brighten my day.
Believe it or not, there's even a dealer who tries to find me dates as well as opportunities to make more money. And, he's spent lots of time sharing stories and lessons (in our industry) with me. He taught me how to distinguish strike from wear. And, for all this, he enjoys buying me the occasional lunch and dinner.
I really hate meeting new dealers. The risk of being annoyed is too great. This November, in Baltimore, I have already promised to stop by Pinnacle and thank Mark for some bits of advice he's given me via PM.
I guess the long and short of this is that I like a dealer who wants to seize on the opportunity to cultivate a long-term relationship with me -- the person as well as the coin addict.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Sorry that I had posted earlier and somehow missed your latest message.
There are certainly other companies that get it right, as you put it. See EVP's post - he appears to be working with a number of good guys (one of whom apparently even tries to get him dates, if I read his post right - now THAT is customer service!). Edited to add : I think that in general, (here on this board and elsewhere) people are just more likely to mention the bad, rather than the good experiences they have.
However, many dealers do not have the required patience to deal with the retail public. And, many dealers who set up at shows are there primarily to do wholesale business. We attend a number of shows where we end up doing more wholesale than retail business, even though we try to cater to collectors. Dealer to dealer transactions are typically faster, easier and are often larger, so I can understand why some dealers prefer to deal either primarily or strictly on a wholesale basis. But, we choose to do retail business and the difficulties involved, no doubt contribute to there not being more competitors than currently exist.
On a less-than-serious note, be very careful about tipping your hat to us - how would that look if you're in the midst of "My one exception is the Pinnacle table, where I storm up, demand to be referred to as "Your Eminence" and will not even stoop to looking at a coin before I have been served a very dry martini with a twist."
But, I believe this. If in your business you sell to the public, then it is your business (and to your benefit) to try to understand your customers and what most efficiently serves both of your needs.
As I said, it seems that you at Pinnacle are making a good effort to do this. I am sure there are many companies out there that are less visible on the boards who are doing the same thing. And I commend them also.
2-1 MN in the 7th..booo
I would like the dealer to at least make eye contact with me, to show that he or she will be with me as soon as they are able.
Most dealers at major shows are ALWAYS busy buying and making dealer to dealer trades.
Since I am in business for myself,I know time is money,so I don't want to waste a dealer's time at all....or mine for that matter !
I get right to the point and look at the coins that I may have interest in.
I don't want any pressure while I am looking.
If it has the right "look",I will get out my loupe and inspect a bit more.
If the coin has at least a 50-50 chance of becoming mine..I ask what their best price is.
If the price is close..I usually make an offer..if it isn't close..I say thankyou,and move along.
I do NOT want to hear what the dealer paid for the coin...99% chance he is fibbing anyway !
I also DO NOT want to hear how the coin belongs in a 66 holder if it now resides in a 65.
I can make that decision myself !
I don't want to hear that another person is also looking at that coin,so I better grab it now.
I walk as soon as I hear this !
I want to be respected as a serious buyer who will always buy the right coin if priced fairly.
I respect dealers who command respect..some do,and some will never..
I have been doing this for 37-8 years now,so most dealers know what I am looking for long before I hit their table.
Sometimes they pull out coins and hand them to me as soon as I hit the table.
This is a good thing ! as I know certain dealers are always looking for nice dollars to show me.
Sometimes dealers page me as soon as they find something that I am looking for.
This is very good service !
Sometimes I have to think about 2-3 coins of the same date to try and decide which will make it into my collection.
I may ask a dealer to hold it for me for 10 minutes or so...sometimes longer if need be.
I came back to Pinnacle's table 2 hours after I told Mark that I will be back.
Scott was helping me,and was busy at that moment.
I bought the coin,and it was put away for me whenever I came back.
I have to say..Pinnacle ALWAYS gives me GREAT service.
They don't specialize in Morgans,but will do just about anything for me or my friends that I sent their way.
Always pleasant no matter what.
Many other dealers should learn from this !
there are CERTAIN dealers who I won't even stop at their table no matter what they have that I need.
Once they **** me off,they are finished.
I spent over 36k at Long Beach,so when I see the right coins,I grab them.
Sometimes I even ask the dealer if I can take it to another table to compare.
The dealers who let me do these simple things get my business.
They know I WILL bring the coin back as soon as possible.
I can make a long list of A+++ dealers,and a longer list of dealers who deserve a D or F.
But I won't unless asked to do so !
Anyway..I have enjoyed reading all the posts in this thread..
Angels still losing..so back to the TV.
Larry
POB 854
Temecula CA 92593
310-541-7222 office
310-710-2869 cell
www.LSRarecoins.com
Larry@LSRarecoins.com
PCGS Las Vegas June 24-26
Baltimore July 14-17
Chicago August 11-15