What would it take to make NGC your Favorite Service?
braddick
Posts: 23,963 ✭✭✭✭✭
More and more I'm appreciating and liking NGC. Their consistency is outstanding and their customer service rates high with me. I've had a couple of experiences with them over the last two months that were top notch.
-What would it take for NGC to become YOUR favorite Grading Service and your number one choice over PCGS?
-What would it take for NGC to become YOUR favorite Grading Service and your number one choice over PCGS?
peacockcoins
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Besides I don't like the Slab.
Rusty.
09/07/2006
K S
Even then, I would probably stay with PCGS. The always hungry little Bear
Camelot
* knock it off with the suffices like stars, Ts, and Ws (just grade it...)
* tighten up their grading of moderns (they are the loosest of the "big 4"...)
* cancel their contract with Shop At Home (you lie down with dogs...)
-Bob
TBT
Go BIG or GO HOME. ©Bill
<< <i>What would it take for NGC to become YOUR favorite Grading Service and your number one choice over PCGS? >>
If they would face reverses with nice tone to the front of their holder.
Suppose, hypothetically, that you are now in a position to choose. Then, what would make NGC your #1? Suppose they threw gorgeous women at you. Would that help? Suppose they gave you discounts. Would that help? What would it take? Be realistic...
Besides I don't like the Slab.
Odd response... Does this mean that NGC is already equal to (or better than) PCGS in all other aspects, like grading? If you're picking on the slab, then you're really saying that PCGS is the better encapsulation service! And, that's only referring to the plastic (or the technology). What about the expertise of the graders? What about the conduct of the support staff (i.e., fingerprints, hair, snot...)?
BTW, NGC is already my preferred service. But, I'm fickle. If they slip, then they risk losing me. I'm not overly concerned about the plastic.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Ogden
In the past NGC has been far too liberal with many modern proof coins, PR69's aren't supposed to be spotted or marked. It seems those coins give alot of services trouble. Interestingly, they seem to really satisfy the Franklin collectors pretty well. I guess I like having multiple services available, and think there's a place for each. It's important that they compete for our business, and that they innovate and improve their product. I think on those fronts, NGC has done a pretty good job. I listen to everyone talk about the value of the coin in one companys plastic or another, and realize that question has nothing to do with why I choose one company over another to grade the coins I intend to keep. I'm anticipating owning my coins for at least another 20 years. Which company's product will command a premium then? Will the holders matter at all? Will they be recognized as an inferior storage method like the Whitman folders? Will conservation become the rule of the day? Will conservation ruin NGC's marketability? Will ANACS compete? At the end of the day, the only thing I know for sure is the quality of my coins. I don't have any idea how the plastic will impact them in coming years. Right now, PCGS does a better job with some series (IMHO) and so I submit those coins to them. The coins that I think ANACS or NGC do a better job with, I send to them. The coins I intend to sell now, I send to PCGS because they currently command a premium. I slab them to protect them, to be sure I bought what I thought I did, and to help my family if they should ever need to sell. Lastly, I also like the guarantee. It's not a bad bargain for $15.
and it sets us apart from practitioners and consultants. Gregor
As for the "inferiority" and "superiority" of slabs goes (aesthetics for most people), NGC's slabs are now air-tight, vacuum sealed, and contain intercept shield technology. PCGS slabs have none of these qualities. Gold and copper look better in them. The plastic insert covers as much of the edge of the coin as PCGS slabs (just try to read the edge lettering on a Saint in any holder).
Have a lot of coins graded with both services, from a variety of series in a variety of specie. Look for the variability in results, then talk. Try to get past the slab and on to the coin. Whichever service you choose matters little, but the consistency of the service with your own methods, desires and abilities will likely sway your opinion in the end.
Hoot
Their custmer service attitude is much more to my liking. That is one of my major gripe with PCGS, lack of staff to answer questions here. One of the other things I like about NGC is they automatically provide an explanation for coins that didn't cross over. Some one please explain to me why PCGS won't do this.
Frank
NGC does a good job with die variety attributions. PCGS is the pits in that regard. Number one PCGS doesn’t even try to do the tough ones like Newcomb numbers for middle and late date large cents. And number two I’ve handled some PCGS in recent months where they even got the Red Book variety wrong. There’s no excuse for that. Many beginning collectors can look at the pictures in the Red Book and figure that out !!!
I agree the NGC grading of very recent modern coins leaves a lot to be desired, but since I don't care and don't have any faith in the value of most of that stuff, that short coming doesn't bother me at all.
jom
No matter what you've been told, NGC slabs don't have intercept shield. ICG slabs do. Intercept shield cannot be colored and thus is only available in that very very dark brown, almost black color. NGC slabs are obviously not that color and thus, do not have intercept shield.
I think I will send NGC a coin or two this week. So at least I have something to compare PCGS to.
One thing I can say they would need to do is highjack some of the folks from these message boards and bring them home with them. I hit the boards over there on occasion, but I like these grounds much better. Even though the folks here are NOT PCGS, these are the PCGS boards and well, they are a nicer place to hang out. So by extension, PCGS gets a nod from me.
One other little note.... I do like the Coin numbering on the slab that PCGS sticks up there. Nice to see Series: 31 Coin: 4 ect..
Hoot
followed by PCGS and ANACS. I do not utilize any other services.
Brian
My Website
"Everything I have is for sale except for my wife and my dog....and I'm not sure about one of them."
bottom line is always the same thing, time after time. these services, ngc, pcgs, acg, etc, offer an OPINION for a fee. grading is ultimatelly subjective, and it's foolish not to be able to form your own opinion.
things that might make plastic useful to ME are:
1 allow net-grading, like ANACS does
2 mention ALL alterations to a coin, including dipping, retoning, etc, even if they don't warrant a net grade
3 can the crap. no more stupid "flags" and "signatures" and stars, and "pq's" and little "w's", etc. give you what you pay for, which is an OPINION on a grade
4 offer an "authentication-only" option, like ANACS does
5 for chrissake, get attributions correct. and at a minimum, get dates and denominations correct.
K S
NGC
1. I do not like NGC's association with HSN.
2. I do not like the NGC STAR designation.
3. I do not like the look of the NGC slabs
4. I do not like that the market as a whole see's NGC as inferior and thus “MOST” of their slabbed coins sell at a discount compared to PCGS.
5. I do not like the changing of grading standards from year to year.
6. I do not like all the MS70 & PR70 coins they slab (over grading all moderns).
7. I do not like that either cracked out or submitted for cross, less than half of the NGC coins will grade as high at PCGS. Tells me regardless of either companies standards or future PCGS coins “for the most part” will be higher quality for the grade.
8.I do not like the pop reports being all screwed up although that is the fault of the collector community not the grading companies.
PCGS
1. I do not like PCGS slabbing death coins (WTC).
2. I do not like PCGS signature series slabs.
3. I do not like the PCGS & DHRC conflict of interest thing.
4. I do not like the changing of grading standards from year to year.
5. I do not like the pop reports being all screwed up although that is the fault of the collector community not the grading companies.
6. I do not like that they do not tell you why a coin is body bagged (specifics).
7. I do not like that their slabs are not air tight.
I do like the security I get knowing the coins are authentic without major problems.
OF COURSE THIS IS ALL JUST MY OPINION.
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.
The most important thing the services (NGC, PCGS) should offer is WHY they graded the coin the way they did. All we get now is stamp a number on it and send it out the door.
Back when ANACS first start grading they offered an opinion (yes, it's just an opinion) on EACH attribute of the coin: luster, strike, hits, etc. Now THAT was service. Not the watered down "dealer oriented" crap we get now.
jom
My bottom line is this: I see on eBay and QVC/HSN NGC MS 69 & MS 70 coins in #'s that are overwhelming!
Same applies to Proofs. I can see some (small #) to be a true 70 but 100's ??? They are shooting themselves in the
foot by taking your money and giving you a slab with a overgraded coin.
Next: In classic coins NGC for the most part is on par with PCGS, and I own 2 dozen or so Morgans in NGC holders but for
modern coins that I collect like Franklins and Kennedy they seem to be between 1 and 2.5 points off !!!
C O N S I S T E N C Y - untill NGC grasps this fact they wil never be #1.
What would it take for NGC to be my favorite: A Miracle!
Wow WWBillman, you saved me a lot of typing! I agree with many of those points on both aspects.
I have several questions for the pro-NGC crowd however. On this message board we are often led to believe that PCGS puts fingerprints on about 90% of their coins, the submissions take forever, and are absolutely never done right, customer service is among the worst in the entire universe, PCGS makes 1000 bad management decisions per day, etc. On the other hand, NGC has never made a mistake (not even a grading mistake, all I hear is "Consistant"). They have never done anything bad, their customer service dept will hand deliver the coins to your door the day after you ship them out, their management team is flawless and would never try to take advantage of a situation (flag holder, etc.). Is NGC really this great or are there complaints on the NGC board that you never see over here?
One more thing, I think alot of people like NGC because they send them their coins and get a high grade out of them (not necessarily the correct grade), because people have a tendency to overrate their own coins. People get frustrated with PCGS probably because PCGS doesn't like their coins as much as they do.
Right now I am in the process of buying Peace $s that are slabbed by PCGS. I don't want coins that were overgraded to make the submitter happy. That is why (not the looks of the holder, not the customer service, etc..) that I am sticking with PCGS coins. Remember that I can't always view the coins up close, so I am judging coins I like from scans, etc., but trusting the grade either to be correct, or if someday I am told it was overgraded, I can send it in for a review and supposidly get some money back.
Customer service, slab looks, HSN, etc. doesn't matter to me as much as: Is the grade on the slab correct, and guaranteed by the company.
This is all just my opinion of course.
JJacks
Read what is said, not what you want to insinuate from it.
Lots of uninformed responses. Interesting but expected.
IrishMike,
First of all, I understand what you are saying, but I don't completely agree. Many pro-NGC members such as GMarguli have mentioned complaints about PCGS, and often repeat these problems in other posts, and will not seem to get off PCGS's case even if the issue is resolved. Other members, such as Russ, have complained of fingerprints for example, but apparently got his problems fixed (and still seemed to mention it several times past that), so I can't say he is very pro - PCGS necessarily, he just likes the PCGS Registry maybe!
There is no question that some PCGS coins may not cross to NGC, but clearly more go one way then the other, or you would have people making a bunch of money buying NGC coins, getting their easy cross, and selling them in PCGS holders. I can't find a PCGS Peace $ in MS66 under about $500, but I often see NGC ones quite a bit cheaper. Isn't there easy money to be made there if the NGC ones are MS66? Also, from personal experience, I have an NGC MS66RD Lincoln that I bought before I knew much about what I was doing. It is an awful looking coin with many spots, etc. I can't see how it could have got a 66 grade (I would like to think PCGS would give it about 64, but I can't be sure). Buying the slab sure didn't protect me that time did it? Fortunately it was a cheap coin, but you get my point. I haven't been disappointed with really any of the 50-100 PCGS coins I have bought, and the only NGC I have I was disappointed with (once I knew what I was doing). I am certainly not saying NGC is that bad all the time of course, just my experience. If I am going to spend $600 for an MS66 Peace $ (which is a fair amount of money for me), you better believe it will be a PCGS graded coin.
Back to the other thing, it seems that if someone gets a fingerprint, or a mislabel or something, some people on this board (some may be Pro-PCGS in general) don't seem to get over it and keep bringing it up, but I get the feeling the Pro-NGC guys never mention the problems they may have with NGC, no matter how small to make NGC look better. Maybe there have been a few posts of the kind, but I never seem to run into them!
Once again, my point is very simple: Forget the looks of the holder, the wait times, customer service, etc. When I buy a slabbed coin, I want the grade to be correct, or for the slabbing company to stand behind the coin 100% (correct in the first place is the best BTW). I think PCGS is the best at this overall.
I did say just my opinion, so I don't really feel I need to lighten up!
JJacks
???
It's been my experience that if I want a retoned Bust coin slabbed, I'll send it to PCGS. NGC will bodybag it, and ANACS will give it a net grade. (I'm not sure what ICG will do.)
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
Hmmm...
There is a large percentage of the industry that prefers NGC's brand of grading (excluding moderns) over that of PCGS. Is this large majority, comprised of veterans from the dealer and collector pools, all deluded?
Maybe, just maybe, PCGS is downgrading coins while NGC is grading them accurately... (Once again: excluding moderns.) And maybe, just maybe, we're all not deluded.
Would you allow for this possibility?
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
I think IrishMike was speaking of percentages. The %-age of PCGS coins NOT crossing to NGC is probably of a similar rate as in the other direction.
In any case, I don't follow your logic. Suppose NGC --> PCGS is harder than PCGS --> NGC. So what? How does that translate into making more money? If you buy NGC coins, then you pay less but have a chance of crossing (and thus ``making'' money). If you buy PCGS coins, then you're paying a premium. When you sell, you get the premium back. How does that translate into making a bunch of money?
To me, the way to make big money is cherrypicking underappreciated (either by grade, holder or whatever) and then selling it in its most appreciated venue.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
However, It DOES matter to me that their graders and staff particpate on their message boards. It DOES matter that when I sent in a coin for an appearance review, one of their grading finalizers CALLED me to discuss his opinion of my coin and how I might proceed. It DOES matter that they regularly solicit input on how they can better their registry system and other policies. It DOES matter that they listen to and act on the input they receive from their customers. It DOES matter that they really care about their customers, even the little ones like me. Given my opinion on the "great grading debate", the company that exemplifies superior customer service in an industry that provides more or less the same product, will get my business every time.
Andy
First POTD 9/19/05!!
I would NEVER submit a coin to PCGS after reading everything on these boards. Anywhere else would be just fine but you guys ALL say PCGS is the worst so I believe you.
see? My Auctions "Got any 1800's gold?"
I will offer this however: of the 100 or so NGC slabs I have (lincolns) an aweful lot of them have toned over time (last 4 years). Of the 200 or so PCGS slabs I own, not one has toned in a similiar way. Go figure.
It seems easier to pass a cleaned coin past NGC then PCGS as well.
WWBILLMAN - your thoughts on green eggs and ham?