Carol, could we please talk to a grader one night

DHeath

Carol,

Would it be possible for us to speak to one of the graders (anonymous if necessary) one evening in a moderated thread? There are tons of questions I'd love to ask, and I'm sure many of the members would too. Say, maybe 8 pm EST to 10 pm. If that isn't possible, perhaps we could prepare a list of questions of importance to the community in advance?

airplanenut

that would be so cool!

DanC

Here, Here! Excellent Idea.

It should be pointed out that the intent would be TWO way communication.
Perhaps if a grader better understood the submitter who better understood what the grader goes through... etc... etc..

It's easy to criticize, but difficult to walk in another man's shoes.
Just some food for thought.

It could be a very positive experience for all concerned. - if - the goal is recognized and it isn't a gripe session.

DHeath

Immediately, I can think of fifteen or twenty questions I'd like to pose that would help me understand the thought process better.

1. Which is your first consideration when grading , do you look and think at first glance "That one has a MS67 look", and then begin the examination, or do you begin with technical evaluation.

2. How much does strike matter? If the eye appeal is good and the coin is mark free, how much is strike a factor?

3. For Dcam designation, how much does frost on lettering affect your decision? I've seen coins with the designation go both ways.

4. Do you consider LDS problems when grading tough dates?

5. Are you more careful when considering assigning pop-top or low-pop grades?

6. Do certain graders get modern submissions, they seem to get graded quicker?

7. Which series causes the most finalizer rulings?


etc.....

MartyF

Deserves a bump....

Bear

Don - I liked all of your questions. Perhaps you could assemble 20 -25 questions
from a number of Forum members, to submit in advance, for a real time response .
Its a great idea and would be great PR for PCGS . It would also be of great interest and value to a large
number of collectors and dealers. Bear

DHeath

Thanks Bear, I'm really hoping to learn something! I suspect I'd learn from our questions as well.

goyankeez

Great idea!!

DanC

It would be interesting to tabulate the results (expectations) of grades prior to, and after the fact.

I don't suppose it would necessarily be scientific, but I'd submit if both sides understand one another
better, it will be a more pleasant and rewarding experience for all concerned.

Might I suggest a poll to reduce the growing list of questions to a manageable size?
then, since everyone had a chance to think about the questions, providing them to the "lucky" chap
who will represent the "graders" will have had an equal opportunity to carefully consider the response.

just my .02

edit:
and credit where it is due Bear for already articulating part of that. I didn't read closely enough.

Cam40

ttt

pontiacinf

oh Carol

just saying hi

IrishMike

Great idea Don, might I add this, why don't we submit the same questions on the NGC forum at the same time.

4thStooge

Carol,
I may understand why PCGS would feel that a grader answering policy questions would be inappropriate, so how about if Mr. Montgomery would spend a little time one evening answering questions. He hasn't been on the forum in ages.

Thanx

Trime

The questions and topics listed and the dialog with graders would clearly create fun session for many of the members of the forum.
These questions are asked repeatedly of graders in many venues. For at least one attempt to quierry present and past graders on some of these topics retrieve Kranky's series of reports to this forum (early July 2002) on the ANA Advanced Grading Course.

IrishMike

I don't understand why they would have a problem answering questions. They make comments and address issues and questions on other coin forums. The submitters pay their wages, they should have the right to ask generic questions. It's knowledge that would be invaluable to the collector on whether or not they should submit a coin and it might lessen the number of public criticisms voiced here about the grades the coins received. I for one believe they do a good job and if they imparted some of their knowledge to us, it could do nothing but improve on their image. Sometimes I feel their silence is tatamount ( is this a word) to saying the comments posted here are drivel.

MadMarty

Don,
I'm impressed , great question. After my last gradings, I'd like to take a grader to dinner and shoot him/her!!! I think it would be a perfect idea to use that little used chat feature of this site.

mdwoods

Great idea Don. Please Carol??? Mark

Eastside

Hey Carol, the annonomous Grader idea is one of the best i've seen this year, I for one, and probably every other single member of this board has ????question marks bouncin around there melon every ti
me a submission comes back. Don your a genius.


Eastside

Promote the Hobby

RGL

Don: Thanks for jogging our memories. We have long requested such a discussion, but it never has come to fruition. A second here ... We promise to be nice!

coindaughter

As a newbie, I would love the opportunity to read such a discussion!

RLinn

I would even be happy if we could submit a list of reasonable questions and have Carol share the anonymous relies of several graders to each. Sort of like a question a day thread.

oreville

On ebay coin chat room, I as a regular member of the chat room had invited ICG, NGC and PCGS to discuss grading issues with us. All three accepted.

Keith Love of ICG came on for several hours one night. John Maben of NGC came on another night and then Rick Montgomery was scheduled to come on a third night until we agreed to postpone to another night due to my having a scheduling conflict.

I must admit I have not had a chance to ask Rick to reschedule. Quite frankly with the ebay coin chat room in a little bit of chaos now anyway, I would rather have Rick come here nowadays.

I am sure Rick has been really busy trying to keep things underl control and to speed up response times on submissions so his time must be short.

I suggest that Rick tries to schedule a "coffee hour" chat to discuss general issues not just grading issues once every three months. Sure, not all questions get answered but perhaps a few advance submitted questions can be answered by Rick in his first posting to get the ball rolling. Any questions that cannot be answered within the hour could be answered on that thread by Rick as time permits or wait until the next quarter. My suggestion is that the threads be "saved" and "tt" so that there will be a sort of reference tool to minimize repetitive questions.

Rick does not have to be there every quarter...perhaps you could send another grader representative to such coffee hour. The beauty of the coffee hour is we all have to provide our own coffee and coffee cake.


How about it Rick? You know me to be up front but in a nice way!

doereme

A most excelent idea ! I would really enjoy just being a spectator to this discusion....Pat

DHeath

Oreville,

Rick would make an excellent guest/host . I wonder what his take on our idea would be.

danglen

I was fortunate to take the Advanced Grading Course at the ANA Summer Camp last June, which was taught by two present and one former NGC grader, one of whom posts regularly to this board. The consensus was that the grader will look at a the obverse of a coin first with the naked eye, and it will fall into a "slot for him/her", either as a textbook case of one grade, or as a "liner" between two grades. If they see anything that might be a problem, they look at it with a 3x glass. The they turn it over, look at the reverse. The reverse can knock a coin down, but it can't bring it up. Then back to the obverse for a couple of seconds, enter their grade in the computer (they can also add a comment for the next grader to see), and it's on to the next coin. Two graders and one grader/finalizer look at each coin. If the finalizer doesn't agree with someone's grade, he/she can come back and ask the grader to look at something the may have missed. According to the guys that taught the course, that happens quite a bit. If you have the time and resources to go attend the Advanced Grading Seminar next summer, it's definitely worth the price of admission. When the course started, we as a class were taking about 30 seconds to grade a coin, and our grades were all over the map, from XF to high MS. By the time the week had ended, we were averaging about 12 seconds, and generally speaking were within a point of each other and the instructors. Between sessions (I was there for two weeks), I took my newly honed skills to a coin show in Colorado Springs. I was able to pick up some nice Morgans that paid for my trip and tuition for both weeks. Knowledge doesn't cost, it PAYS!

robertpr

Carol can't respond to this thread as she's too busy grading coins right now. Sorry.

kranky

This is a great idea, but I would ask that it not be done in the chat. There would be no way to refer others to it later on. If the graders don't want to do it live, let the board members submit questions in advance.

danglen, at some point we must have passed each other last summer at the ANA seminar - I was there the first week in Basic Grading. I'm impressed that you were able to finance your trip with coins from the Colorado Springs show - that's really putting your
skills to use in a hurry! Great story.

DHeath

Thanks Danglen. It is my intention to go next year. Kranky, the stuff you wrote about your experience was superb, and should be required reading. Danglen, thanks. I'm sure the guys who look at coins all day have a feel for a coin the moment they pick it up.

danglen

Kranky,
I took the Basic Grading course the year before with Don Bonser and Mary Souvain. The Advanced Grading class was like the Basic Grading class on speed. I'm taking the Advanced Grading course again next summer. They are going to speand a couple of days covering the "detection of problem coins", or "how to submit coins that won't come back in a body bag". I'm really looking forward to it.

Flash

This idea has merit. I suggest we keep it near the top of the threads until Carol, or somebody else from PCGS, gives us a "yay" or "nay".

TWQG

This might be a great morale boost too!!!

perfectstrike

I'd like details regarding how PCGS graders take color into account when checking Lincolns for CAM and DCAM designations. I've never seen a white on black Lincoln DCAM!

perfectstrike

BlueCole

Even if i don't ask any questions, i'd still like to look and watch!!!!

B.

Bear

TTT

Bear

TTT

SportsModerator2

Hello Guys.

Patience is a virtue

Rick gave his ok I just need to meet with him regarding time and participants.
I also need to look at some technical issues as to the best way to handle it.

I think it would be a great idea to list some of your questions, if he can answer some of those questions right away, it would save time for follow up questions.

Carol

BigD5

Is there anything Carol can't handle?

tjkillian

Carol,

Excellent! My first question would be:

What is the specific process that you go through to grade a coin?
Second, what are the attributes that are important in grading, e.g. strike, luster, eye appeal, marks. And what order?

Tom

joejoe2000

Carol,

thank you!!!

My question is.
Can you tell the differnce between an sms coin and a regular issue coin 100% of the time?
What diagnostics do you use?

thanks
Joe

Aaron04

Sounds great !

nwcs

Awesome! My question is: what does a grader look at specifically to determine AU-58 from MS coins. Specifically, is it color, scratches, etc.? And whether they use a loupe to determine it.

Neil

airplanenut

my question:

why is my SAE only a 63???

Just kidding

Bear

TTT

RLinn

Thanks for working behind the scenes, Carol. Would it be possible to announce the details (time, date, etc.), participants and rules of engagement in a separate thread to avoid it getting lost near the bottom of this one?

DHeath

Thank you Carol, it should be a fun learning experience. I'd say it's time for a thread gathering questions. I'll put it up and see if there is any consensus. If not, perhaps Rick will pick.

Clankeye

DHeath--
Congrats on a good idea, and seeing it through!
Carl

SportsModerator2

I'm setting up a Q&A forum right now and I'm testing it out.
I will let you know when you can start posting questions.

It looks like I will set it up so that you can only have one question per thread (no replies except for the moderator/admin.

I don't think there is any way Rick could keep up if everyone started firing questions at him on all different threads. I think this will make it easier to keep up with.
It will be a good idea to submit questions early and give him a chance to respond.
You can help me test it now but any questions posted now will be deleted at the end of today.

oreville

carolj: This is the kind of response that will help keep PCGS at the top.

Responsiveness is the key.

Rick is a good guy and you obviously work well with him.

Indeed 1 question per poster is reasonable except for the moderator/admin.

I also believe that posters will not get upset if their questions don't get answered right away knowing that there will be periodic Q&A forums which means their question will eventually get answered.

Furthermore, a separate Q&A forum should be established to answer non grading questions such as how to what to do, how to ship and how fast is turn around, what could happen when a coin is requested to be crossed over from another service to PCGS, etc.

SportsModerator2

I would like to see the Q&A forum stick around.
My only concern is that it has to be moderated so it doesn't become another open forum.

At this time, we have 2 admins. and I am going to be traveling once a month for the rest of year. Our other admin is Charlie Kahler and he keeps busy running our customer service department among other things.

I'll think of ways to keep it around (at least as a customer service Q&A) going forward.

Carol

Dog97

Sound like good PR.

SportsModerator2

When the board was smaller I was able to keep up with you guys.
Now I'm left in the dust of all the posts!