Something about dealers...what is it?
DesertLizard
Posts: 702 ✭
I am "new" again to collecting coins. I rememeber as a kid being pushed aside by old or fat men with cigars at coin shows. No offense but as a 12yr, that was my impression, with hard earning grass cutting and snow shoveling money I thought I was big time! Dealers bascially ignored me, in hindsight I can understand, I was a minor and they assumed I had little to no money. They were half right. I slowly grew out of my coin collecting interest.
Today I am an old, but not fat man, who has alot more money to play with and have a renewed interest in coin collecting. Emphasis on "collecting".
I recently emailed 3 "high" end dealers inquiring about making a series of purchases. Not to brag, but I am in the position to spend per month about $12,500. At least for the next few years. I have started several different tpyes of collections emphasizing gold and early 19th century coins.
Well I waited and waited and waited. Not a single reply from the dealers. Go figure. Then I discovered this group and from there eBay and in the span of jsut a week I purchased nearly 2x my monthly budget!! Oops!
My point, why don't dealers take inquiries seriously? Why bother having a website? Do they really have the coins they say they do? Or are dealers simply selling each others coins in a sort of round robin?
BTW, David Hall rare coins , David lawrence rare coins and Wintrop Coins your not answering your emails just cost you a bundle. I now like using ebay and dealing with other "collectors and collect / dealers". While eBay does have it shortcomings, it sure has leveled the playing field. Hopefully dealers will wake up to the fact that there is lots of competition out there, we need them but we also need dealers who are responsive. Who knows, that timid frail little kid you ignore at the show could turn out to be your biggest customer, or so could his dad or his uncle.
Bottom line....be nice.
Today I am an old, but not fat man, who has alot more money to play with and have a renewed interest in coin collecting. Emphasis on "collecting".
I recently emailed 3 "high" end dealers inquiring about making a series of purchases. Not to brag, but I am in the position to spend per month about $12,500. At least for the next few years. I have started several different tpyes of collections emphasizing gold and early 19th century coins.
Well I waited and waited and waited. Not a single reply from the dealers. Go figure. Then I discovered this group and from there eBay and in the span of jsut a week I purchased nearly 2x my monthly budget!! Oops!
My point, why don't dealers take inquiries seriously? Why bother having a website? Do they really have the coins they say they do? Or are dealers simply selling each others coins in a sort of round robin?
BTW, David Hall rare coins , David lawrence rare coins and Wintrop Coins your not answering your emails just cost you a bundle. I now like using ebay and dealing with other "collectors and collect / dealers". While eBay does have it shortcomings, it sure has leveled the playing field. Hopefully dealers will wake up to the fact that there is lots of competition out there, we need them but we also need dealers who are responsive. Who knows, that timid frail little kid you ignore at the show could turn out to be your biggest customer, or so could his dad or his uncle.
Bottom line....be nice.
0
Comments
if my advice doesn't work, try adding some girth around the middle and take up cigar smoking...maybe they'll pay attention to you then.
I couldn't resist.
yourself lucky you got early exposure. And I'd forget about
those dealers and fat men who snubbed you because one of
them may just have the coin you want one day.
I think Cointagious is very correct saying "get to know some
dealers" and develop a good relationship with a dealer or two.
They can buy for you as well as sell for you and they
will know exactly what you want.
Besides, most of those coins you want will never make it to
your local coin shows, they'll be sold. But a trusted dealer
friend who travels to shows can keep a sharp lookout for you.
No one can tell you how to spend that monthly budget but
if I were you I'd take a breather. I'd make very
sure you aren't just buying to be accumulating. You haven't
said what you are collecting. Are you focusing on a series,
type collecting or what?
- Charlie B -
My website
position there will be a tendency to want to throw money at a collection until it
is complete. This could prove to be very costly. There is a great deal to learn
about the market and grading. Start with less expensive items and ask lots of
questions, look at lots of coins and try to gain at least some focus. It is not crit-
ical that you specialize, but it's much easier to learn a few series than all of them.
Be sure to sell a coin once in a while. You never really know how well you're do-
ing until you try to sell something. Eventually tou'll have to get rid of some coins
because of upgrades and changing interest anyway, so you may as well learn how
to sell as you go. Whatever you collect there will be bargains and some bad deals,
learn to tell the difference. Have fun.
Welcome aboard.
i've had the advantage of knowing pretty much all the big names over the years, go with the good guys, like J Cline and Jack Beymer. any others you might be considering, if i've had personal experience w/them, i'd be glad to offer an opinion.
K S
<< <i>dude, of all the ones you might pick, David Hall rare coins , David lawrence rare coins and Wintrop Coins, good lord, man, have you lost your senses??? i couldn't think of a more ludicrous buttload of blathering boneheads than those three musketeers, unless you want to throw in the illustious Anthony Swiatek. i've had the advantage of knowing pretty much all the big names over the years, go with the good guys, like J Cline and Jack Beymer. any others you might be considering, if i've had personal experience w/them, i'd be glad to offer an opinion. K S >>
Karl, don't sugar coat it, how do you really feel?
ok, i know that i tend to express my opinions a little strongly, but hey, it gives y'all something to poke fun at , right???
K S
B.
A Tax is a fine for doing good.
I can somewhat relate to you on this. I'm a younger collector who buys more expensive coins than most and can sometimes experience the same kind of behavior. I think its natural for anyone who sells expensive goods to act this way. I have fancy tastes (luckily, some means to support it too) and buy a lot expensive things, including coins, and I must say that until the people know you they will treat you this way. Once they know you have the money and will spend it, they will tend to treat you differently. And with coin dealers it's no different.
Take for example all those "old timers" at shows who buy coins from dealers they know really well and they don't even pay for the coins at the time they get them--the dealers know they're good for it and don't sweat it (at least they don't seem to be sweating it
Get to know a few dealers well and in no time you will have plenty of new friends and great service. First you'll have to spend some money and develop some relationships. Dealers don't like to waste their time with shoppers so show them your a buyer.
-Hunter
WANTED: I need these coins
Always looking for PCGS buffs, 1917 SLQs, and pre-1933 GOLD.
Check my want list above!!!
Please note, I am not anti dealer, they have to survive and make a living as well BUT not with the profound indifference and aloofness that permeates their ranks.
I have learned more in this forum in the last week than in the past 10+ years! Boy do I feel stupid! But will make fewer mistakes now.
Will follow the advice of many and slow down my accumulation!
Just because you spend $12,500 on coins, may not mean you have $12,500 worth of coins after the spending is done. The dealers you mentioned do have some high priced tickets, and will probably have them as long as you have money to spend. The high end market has many, many variables and nuances which the established dealers know very well. They know the slabbing game, they know which coins are dogs in holders and which are the keepers. You will too, but with some time and lots o' experience.
Ebay is excellent for moving quality collector grade coins in certain price ranges as most collectors have limited means. Ebay is not so hot for higher priced tickets (for sellers). Selling pricier coins, again has many variables and nuances.
You may want to try one experiment before spending oodles of dough on coins. Pick a nice $3,000-$5,000 coin you may have already purchased and list it on ebay for sale. You should put a reserve of course to protect your investment, but do it to see how the market responds to the coins listed. Did the price of the bidders approach what you paid? Did it exceed it? Did what the dealers cost you paid reflect a fair price.
Just some suggestions, mostly I hope you have a hell-uva-lotta FUN!!
Tyler
Camelot
The three names of dealers you mention are the equivant of saying you want personal attention from Walmart, Target or Fred Meyers. There are so many more dealers and places who can and would be glad to give you individual attention. Finding the dealers you deal with can be more important to your enjoying this hobby than the coins you find. Take your time and pick well! Especially right now, when you are just getting started. If you come running out of the gate, overpay for coins, and feel you've made shallow personal connections, I promise you, you will leave numismatics again. At any rate, it's good to have you here. And that you are availing yourself of the experience of others on this board is a good sign.
I can pay list price anywhere.
You need me MORE than I need you.
And a good reminder for car salesmen. You don't add value to a car; ALL YOU ADD IS COST.
Nuff said.
And you know what even makes me madder? That guy Adrian Crane. I have never bought a coin from him but I emailed him over twenty minutes ago, didn't sign my name or tell him I have $50,000 to spend, someday, and he has the nerve to continue not responding to me. Even though I’ve never bought a coin off eBay for more than $20 and my feedback shows it, he should drop what he is doing and either pick up the phone and call me (I guess I should have put my phone number in the email) or send me an email RIGHT NOW! I don’t care how many emails he gets everyday, how busy he is, how many jobs he has, how many kids he has, the bills that he has to pay or anything else about him – I have needs and I want them serviced immediately regardless of whether I have any money or not! Oh, and one more thing. “The seller is a true sheister, and a disgrace to the hobby.” And even though I obviously either don’t own a dictionary or don’t know how to use one, I am to be respected because if you don’t I will probably say something really mean about you too, as mean as I can think up to scare you away, and even though I may make a complete ass out of myself in the process, over and over again, you will not have the courage to even attempt to attack me because I am willing to make a bigger ass out of myself just to make a point. Besides, I have at least one friend that will back up almost anything I say and post his responses right in this forum! And just because I self-admittedly, don’t even own a scanner means nothing – who needs a scanner anyways! I have a Commodore 64 and that’s all I need to do what it is I have set out to do which of course is bestow my valuable opinions on everyone regardless of whether they ask for them or not!
Yes, I will give you advice that you don’t ask for, and while you may feel like a fool when you read it, in front of everyone who cruises these pages, too bad! It’s the United States and you have to suffer idiots like me because your freedom to speak intelligently about meaningful things could be jeapordized by silencing morons like me! Yes, you wise ones out there who only lurk as smart folks would, – you’ve seen what I and others will do to you! Stay hidden! You have very little to gain by risking your feelings with a post here! Unless, of course, you have an impenetrable hide of steel. And who has that?
Finally, I love naming coin dealers and then libeling them! Hell, they won’t sue me – they know that somebody with judgment like mine couldn’t own a pot to pee in or even a window to throw it out of! And everyone knows that teaching me a lesson would be expensive, so I can just say anything I want to about anybody, and anything at anytime! And yes, most of the people out there with an IQ of 80 or better will see me as the idiot I am, the truth is I can do lots of damage because not everyone will take the time to see me for what I truly am and thereby completely ignore everything I write!
Isn’t America great! I think I’ll become a coin dealer too someday and show everyone how it is done, if only I could shake this fog that seems to prevent me from thinking like normal people….
(Hey guys, what happened? I woke up and read this on the PCGS US message board under my name. I must have been taken over by something evil….I wonder what it all means? I guess I could erase it all but somehow I’m thinking that maybe there is just something here for someone or someone(s) to think about. Boy, I hope no one get offended by all this. I mean, geez, I just promised everyone that I would be more sensitive …maybe I should have said that I would be more sensitive to those people WHO DESERVE IT!…….)
adrian
LOL! You da man!!!
TRUTH
morris <><
** I would take a shack on the Rock over a castle in the sand !! **
Don't take life so seriously...nobody gets out alive.
ALL VALLEY COIN AND JEWELRY
28480 B OLD TOWN FRONT ST
TEMECULA, CA 92590
(951) 757-0334
www.allvalleycoinandjewelry.com
Cameron Kiefer
Yeah, Adrian there's a lot of truth there. Of course. Glad you got it out of your system. Obviously, in your position of visibility you have to deal with a lot of "idiots." It goes with the territory.
My father was a newspaper publisher. Our family dealt night and day with the anonymous phone call. Now in the days of the internet, it's the nameless e-mail. I can understand the frustration.
I don't know though, I feel kind of tarred with a broad brush this morning. Perhaps I'm too sensitive.
Carl Funk
TRUTH
<< <i>Customer and client loyalty is gone >>
Was there ever any to begin with?
<< <i>It goes both ways >>
Yup. I've given dealers want lists and never heard from them again. ONLY Bowers and Merena ever responded to one of them. On the other hand, there is a tendencey on this board for collectors to whine constantly. About the graders or the dealers. Although, it seems the grading services get the majority of the whine and cheese.
That being said.... All dealers are PUNKS! lol
jom
<< <i>Daffy Duck after the exploding cigar >>
LOL, adrian's good, real good
I understand that collectors get frustrated. Dealers get frustrated. One of the great things about a place like this is each side can vent and those on the other side can learn what ticks people off. See, threads like this help both groups to appreciate their opposite number.
But at the end of the day, we need each other. We collectors think dealers need us more than the other way around, but I'm not so sure. How frustrating it would be to not be able to locate the coins we want. Ebay doesn't totally solve that problem. Collectors far outnumber dealers here, but we collectors benefit from their comments. We should be a little more understanding of their position, because we generally don't accept that different dealers have different ways of doing business. Just because one dealer's modus operandi isn't to my liking doesn't make him wrong. Perhaps that's not the dealer for me - but it could be the perfect dealer for someone else.
I urge people not to become personally offended by posts that aren't specifically addressed to them. The exchange of thoughts and ideas is beneficial for all of us!
New collectors, please educate yourself before spending money on coins; there are people who believe that using numismatic knowledge to rip the naïve is what this hobby is all about.
My personal experience with dealers, and it is only my experience, is that about 75% of the hundred plus that I have dealt with I would not hesitate to do business with again. Most of the dealers were efficient, helpful and, I think fair and honest.
About 15% were obnoxious, arrogant, slimy, scum sucking, greed-motivated jerks with whom I will never do business with again.
The other 10% were the very spawn of hell!
As for collectors about 75% were helpful, fine people.
About 15% were obnoxious, arrogant, slimy, scum sucking, self-centered jerks.
About 10% were the very spawn of hell!
The only difference is I don't talk to 25% of the collectors and don't deal with 25% of the dealers.
Just my experience - who knows?
I hear what you're saying. I'm just having a bad morning. Read something that in a less vulnerable mood, I would have viewed with a more detached perspective. I'm just tired of coming away from these boards more depressed than inspired. And yes, I will take all the blame, since I'm taking things way too personally this morning anyway.
<< <i><< Customer and client loyalty is gone >>Was there ever any to begin with? >>
i'm willing to pay extra to a dealer i'm loyal to, and i do. i agree with the comment that the building of such relationships has gone by the wayside. slabbing has replaced the trust of established relationships with longtime dealers.
K S
Teflon coating is also recommended... so the crap slides right off
My advice to you or anyone realtively new to coins is to take the time it takes to establish a relationship with people that you find that you like to deal with. There are a handfull of internet dealers that I have found that I can deal with on a regular basis but none of them can replace the interaction with my local dealers.
Keep your dealings honest and above board, learn as much as you can from many sources, be willing to pay a fair price and sell for a reasonable amount, if the time ever comes, and you will eventually establish relationships that should lead to many happy years of collecting.
Happy collecting
The lines between wholseale and retail may have become bluured these days, but the standard for good customer service has not!
Take the long view. The kid who's a pain in your butt today may be your best customer in a decade... or may buy you out when you're ready to retire!
Don't go to the Mercedes dealer asking for a used Volkswagen (there's a parallel here.)
Most dealers started out as collectors and appreciate a collector's viewpoint. Collectors should appreciate that if a dealer can't profit above expenses, the same thing happens that would if you don't get a paycheck.
Someone HAS to pay retail. It's an economic fact that in the absence of retail buyers, the whole market collapses. What's more important is to receive fair value, and that covers a range.
We're all in this together. There are certainly individuals whose actions merit the ire of all of us, but let's not PRESUME that others share their deficiencies!
Peak Numismatics
Monument, CO
Have these DEALERS no shame? Using new all-time lows like disguising theyselves as regular PEOPLE to get my business!! You PEOPLE have them scared & ashamed to admit they are DEALERS.
Hey sneaky snake you wanna slip outside and split a Prozac with me?
adrian
<< <i>i'm willing to pay extra to a dealer i'm loyal to >>
Ditto here. There are dealers online who I will always check first even if I might be able to find the coin for a couple bucks cheaper because I think they sell good stuff and they have treated me right in the past.
I think I am a good dealer's dream because I am very loyal, repeat my business and will talk them up and recommend them to others. I also think I am a bad dealer's nightmare because I never forget and rarely forgive. I have come across many more good dealers than bad ones but average is, of course, probably the norm.
CoinPeople.com || CoinWiki.com || NumisLinks.com
sincerely michael
DesertLizard if you want nice coins you got to be aggressive in looking for them. You got to spend hours surfing, searching, looking and calling. The coins are not going to come to you, there's too many hands waiting to grab them up. Buying $12,000 of eBay junk really doesn't mean anything. Like none of your eBay buys have been from dealers?
I don't do David Hall or Wintrop but I am familiar with David Lawrence-on his site he has a wantlist and all you have to do is sign in and it will let you know if they have gotten the coins you are looking for since the last time you were there. If they don't have a pict you click on the scan request button and they make a scan and email it to you. Heritage has the same features. If you email these dealers recently they were probably getting ready or at a major show, if they think you have money to spend they will call you on the phone personally to make a sale. You simply have to estlablish a rapport with them first. Email get lost, deleted and the net don't work ½ the time anyway so that may be the problem too.
I know what you're saying though.
However, I did post it to stimulate the thinking of whoever wanted or needed stimulation. It's good for us to all examine our lives and our actions. It's really the only story that we write that matters. Unfortunately, some people don't take their lives very seriously. It's probably not their fault. Just a mental disability and we should probably just pity them. Of course it's hard when what you want to do is see how small you can squeeze their esophagus.
adrian
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Never argue with a fool. (Mark Twain)
Your post did make me think. I mentioned those three dealers in a in kind of a demeaning way, and realized I had never had any personal experiences with any of them. So why mention them? Do we just post on this board to see our post count grow, and the minor ego-trip of seeing our opinions broadcast to a waiting world?
So, yes it made me think. In ultimately a positive way.
I think we all have moments of doubt, when we see behavior in others that we find undesirable, and ask..."am I like that? Do I do that?"
It's not really a fun examination process, but hopefully it keeps us on the level.
<< <i>I think we all have moments of doubt, when we see behavior in others that we find undesirable, and ask..."am I like that? Do I do that?" >>
We simply can't like or hate something in someone else unless we like or hate the same things in ourselves.
First POTD 9/19/05!!