@MasonG said:
Based on comments read on this message board, I think some people use the idea that coins are an investment to justify to themselves the amount of money they spend on them.
With the prices of so many coin over the last multiple decades at minimum, it should be evident that unless the buyer treats their purchase as an alternate consumption expense, the price paid incorporate the assumption or expectation that they will recover most, all, or more than their money back.
Huh?
The prices of so many coins are at minimum? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.
There's no doubt most coin buyers assume some amount of recovery. But people are prone to delusion. Beanie Baby buyers are also sure of the returns, until they failed to materialize.
If I still owned the VG/F SVDB that I paid $400 for in 2000 today, I lost a ton of money even if I could sell it for $800 today. That price change is approximately equal to inflation. The S&P500, on the other hand, is up 700% in the same period.
I prefer "alternative consumption" because it is more realistic for 95% of the coin estates i see. It also allows me to enjoy the hobby, and sleep better, because I have no concerns about coin market movement.
No, not minimal price, the amount or percentage of the price recovered at resale. Yes, I attribute bubble mentality to the price level but not getting into that here. Outside the scope of this thread and probably this forum.
As for your comparison to the S&P, I don't believe more than a very low pct. do that. You're about the only one I've ever read making this comparison. My inference is that most buyers are thinking in nominal dollars, not inflation adjusted or comparing coins to other "investments".
Appears to be somewhat similar to metal buyers. It doesn't seem to be unusual for them to hold it for decades, regardless of relative performance. It's a different psychological mindset.
If I still owned the VG/F SVDB that I paid $400 for in 2000 today, I lost a ton of money even if I could sell it for $800 today. That price change is approximately equal to inflation. The S&P500, on the other hand, is up 700% in the same period.
I prefer "alternative consumption" because it is more realistic for 95% of the coin estates i see. It also allows me to enjoy the hobby, and sleep better, because I have no concerns about coin market movement.
What prospective we are losing here in the joy of ownership. The excitement of collecting and yes, owning that worn 1909-S VDB. What price tag do you place on pleasure and fun?
That's the point. Buy it because it brings you pleasure not profit. You will always have the pleasure, you can't guarantee the profit.
Too many people ask "what coin should I buy"? The answer is always, "whichever one gives you pleasure". Period. It costs over guide? So what, will it give you pleasure with that number? It costs less than guide? So what, don't buy if it's a bargain that sparks no joy.
If you are asking a bunch of strangers, "should I buy this coin?" The answer is definitely NOT, you don't love it enough.
@MasonG said:
Based on comments read on this message board, I think some people use the idea that coins are an investment to justify to themselves the amount of money they spend on them.
With the prices of so many coin over the last multiple decades at minimum, it should be evident that unless the buyer treats their purchase as an alternate consumption expense, the price paid incorporate the assumption or expectation that they will recover most, all, or more than their money back.
Huh?
The prices of so many coins are at minimum? I'm not sure what you're trying to say here.
There's no doubt most coin buyers assume some amount of recovery. But people are prone to delusion. Beanie Baby buyers are also sure of the returns, until they failed to materialize.
If I still owned the VG/F SVDB that I paid $400 for in 2000 today, I lost a ton of money even if I could sell it for $800 today. That price change is approximately equal to inflation. The S&P500, on the other hand, is up 700% in the same period.
I prefer "alternative consumption" because it is more realistic for 95% of the coin estates i see. It also allows me to enjoy the hobby, and sleep better, because I have no concerns about coin market movement.
No, not minimal price, the amount or percentage of the price recovered at resale. Yes, I attribute bubble mentality to the price level but not getting into that here. Outside the scope of this thread and probably this forum.
As for your comparison to the S&P, I don't believe more than a very low pct. do that. You're about the only one I've ever read making this comparison. My inference is that most buyers are thinking in nominal dollars, not inflation adjusted or comparing coins to other "investments".
Appears to be somewhat similar to metal buyers. It doesn't seem to be unusual for them to hold it for decades, regardless of relative performance. It's a different psychological mindset.
My response is mostly inference, not "fact".
I'm sure that's true. It's one of my issues with the "investment" people. They buy a coin for $50, sell it for $60 ten years later and applaud themselves for making a profit. Opportunity costs matter.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Could it be that the OP's question had a totally different aspect to it?
IMO, it makes not much difference if it is a AU or a MS65 coin IF the Silver value is higher than the numismatic value.
nobody is going to sell you any 64 coin for numis money if the AG value is considerably higher, unless it is scarce or a rarity. And that goes right down to lower grades.
I know a coin club member on Vancouver Island who over years bought only top money CAN silver dollars, minimum certified ICCS or PCGS MS64. He has the complete series at least double. For the last 2 years he is "hunting" 65's and 66's or better. Very pricy for some, but worth it.
His words 3 weeks ago at the club meeting: All my 64s are nice to look at. However, many are worth much more now as melt compared to when I bought these. And a few 65's are going the same way......
looking at the way silver is performing (or not) my bet is on the best available graded by the most reliable TPG
Any 65, 66 or better Canadian silver Dollars for sale?
Coins are an investment. Period. One has put up x dollars for a group of coins which have a market value. These add up to a bottom line number - inventory cost. This number is total investment amount. If a coin is sold inventory is credited cost of sales is debited. Upon payment cash is debited sales acct is credited. Sales minus cost of sales is gross margin. I realize many in here are ignorant of basic accounting. Probably can’t even do an income statement. Let alone a balance sheet or retained earnings stayement.
@Cougar1978 said:
Coins are an investment. Period. One has put up x dollars for a group of coins which have a market value. These add up to a bottom line number - inventory cost. This number is total investment amount. If a coin is sold inventory is credited cost of sales is debited. Upon payment cash is debited sales acct is credited. Sales minus cost of sales is gross margin. I realize many in here are ignorant of basic accounting. Probably can’t even do an income statement. Let alone a balance sheet or retained earnings stayement.
🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
When I first started teaching evening college accounting classes many could do an income statement but not the others. I then taught them how to do the books / General Joutnal, purchase and then post to general ledger which was the feed to the financial statements. Once they understood this process they had a chance to pass the course. One of my first jobs in accounting was posting yo the journals. I was promoted to asst controller and had clerks under me to post the books. At month end would pull the data to the general ledger. I then would pull the data to the financials. Yes coins are an investment.
@Cougar1978 said:
Laugh all you want I am rofl at you.
When I first started teaching evening college accounting classes many could do an income statement but not the others. I then taught them how to do the books / General Joutnal, purchase and then post to general ledger which was the feed to the financial statements. Once they understood this process they had a chance to pass the course. One of my first jobs in accounting was posting yo the journals. I was promoted to asst controller and had clerks under me to post the books. At month end would pull the data to the general ledger. I then would pull the data to the financials. Yes coins are an investment.
Semantics.
Collectors not dealers.
What do you call it when you buy retail and sell wholesale?
😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
@Cougar1978 said:
Laugh all you want I am rofl at you.
When I first started teaching evening college accounting classes many could do an income statement but not the others. I then taught them how to do the books / General Joutnal, purchase and then post to general ledger which was the feed to the financial statements. Once they understood this process they had a chance to pass the course. One of my first jobs in accounting was posting yo the journals. I was promoted to asst controller and had clerks under me to post the books. At month end would pull the data to the general ledger. I then would pull the data to the financials. Yes coins are an investment.
Comments
No, not minimal price, the amount or percentage of the price recovered at resale. Yes, I attribute bubble mentality to the price level but not getting into that here. Outside the scope of this thread and probably this forum.
As for your comparison to the S&P, I don't believe more than a very low pct. do that. You're about the only one I've ever read making this comparison. My inference is that most buyers are thinking in nominal dollars, not inflation adjusted or comparing coins to other "investments".
Appears to be somewhat similar to metal buyers. It doesn't seem to be unusual for them to hold it for decades, regardless of relative performance. It's a different psychological mindset.
My response is mostly inference, not "fact".
This is my thought process too.
I'm sure that's true. It's one of my issues with the "investment" people. They buy a coin for $50, sell it for $60 ten years later and applaud themselves for making a profit. Opportunity costs matter.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Could it be that the OP's question had a totally different aspect to it?
IMO, it makes not much difference if it is a AU or a MS65 coin IF the Silver value is higher than the numismatic value.
nobody is going to sell you any 64 coin for numis money if the AG value is considerably higher, unless it is scarce or a rarity. And that goes right down to lower grades.
I know a coin club member on Vancouver Island who over years bought only top money CAN silver dollars, minimum certified ICCS or PCGS MS64. He has the complete series at least double. For the last 2 years he is "hunting" 65's and 66's or better. Very pricy for some, but worth it.
His words 3 weeks ago at the club meeting: All my 64s are nice to look at. However, many are worth much more now as melt compared to when I bought these. And a few 65's are going the same way......
looking at the way silver is performing (or not) my bet is on the best available graded by the most reliable TPG
Any 65, 66 or better Canadian silver Dollars for sale?
Coins are an investment. Period. One has put up x dollars for a group of coins which have a market value. These add up to a bottom line number - inventory cost. This number is total investment amount. If a coin is sold inventory is credited cost of sales is debited. Upon payment cash is debited sales acct is credited. Sales minus cost of sales is gross margin. I realize many in here are ignorant of basic accounting. Probably can’t even do an income statement. Let alone a balance sheet or retained earnings stayement.
🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Laugh all you want I am rofl at you.
When I first started teaching evening college accounting classes many could do an income statement but not the others. I then taught them how to do the books / General Joutnal, purchase and then post to general ledger which was the feed to the financial statements. Once they understood this process they had a chance to pass the course. One of my first jobs in accounting was posting yo the journals. I was promoted to asst controller and had clerks under me to post the books. At month end would pull the data to the general ledger. I then would pull the data to the financials. Yes coins are an investment.
What do you call it when you buy retail and sell wholesale?
😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Losing money. Don’t sell at loss. In a real terrible situation would put it away, enjoy my coins.
Anything I sell do cost plus.
Collector not dealer.
All comments reflect the opinion of the author, even when irrefutably accurate.
Accounting class teacher, not collector or dealer.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
All generalities are false (including this one).
I'd agree with you but then we'd both be wrong.