1928-s Lincoln MS65+ Red?

World67

TomB

Maybe at one time...not anymore.

tradedollarnut

If that was ever a 65, then I have no idea how to grade Lincoln‘s

TPring

Favoritism/benefit for being a good customer?

pursuitofliberty

Grade seems okay to me, looks okay as a 5 ... I'll default on that since it's not my range or series ... but no way can that be considered full Red any more.

World67

Cert# indicates it was graded recently.

johnny9434

Dont quite see it but ok

jmlanzaf

It may look lighter in hand.

TallahasseeCoinClub

It appears to be at least 90% red in terms of surface area.

Rampage

It is a mechanical error. PCGS will correct it free of charge.

EastonCollection

I don't see it as full Red coin based on the picture. Over a $12k difference in price guide?

BillJones

The center of the obverse and the right of the reverse appear to be too dark. Given the big premium for color, the coin is risky purchase at the full premium for red. It might also have been “helped” (dipped) in the PCGS graders saw it. My experience has been when such coins change color, change is fairly rapid.

291fifth

Red-Brown

jfriedm56

Either the TV is too dark or shadowed when the photo was taken, 'cause that is nowhere near full red now. I have full red Lincolns, and that representation wouldn't be one of them. That's RB.

TallahasseeCoinClub

@jfriedm56 said:
Either the TV is too dark or shadowed when the photo was taken, 'cause that is nowhere near full red now. I have full red Lincolns, and that representation wouldn't be one of them. That's RB.

"RB" as in ... red/blue ?

lusterlover

I'm in agreement with the RB and not to derail the original point, but I wouldn't call this a 65 either with half of an O missing on the reverse. 64+RB CAC IMHO.

Meltdown

There's a lot of brown on that red. I'll bet it darkened in the holder over some time.

The_Dinosaur_Man

It's like the old Monopoly card "bank error in your favor, receive $12,000"

rodepetdinosaur

The price guide may show a $12,000 difference. Question is, would anyone pay
that price for that particular coin.

MFeld

@TallahasseeCoinClub said:
It appears to be at least 90% red in terms of surface area.

In terms of surface area, the obverse looks about 90% (mellowed) RB and 10% RD and the reverse, roughly 80% (mellowed) RB and 20% RD to me.

MFeld

@tradedollarnut said:
If that was ever a 65, then I have no idea how to grade Lincoln‘s

Color aside, what are your objections to the coin grading 65? The surfaces and luster appear fine and I’m not bothered by the weak O in ONE as @lusterlover is.

World67

Different pics. Does it make a difference?

MFeld

@Morgan White said:
Different pics. Does it make a difference?

It still looks RB to me. However, I’ve seen a very large number of RD copper coins in hand that deserved their designations, but which looked RB (or even BN) in their images.

jesbroken

I would maybe be better able to see the 65 in the 2nd pics vs the 1st. Not a grader so, not sure if the O should matter or not. I would not buy this coin as a 65 and certainly not as a RD. JMO
Jim

World67

@MFeld said:

@Morgan White said:
Different pics. Does it make a difference?

It still looks RB to me. However, I’ve seen a very large number of RD copper coins in hand that deserved their designations, but which looked RB (or even BN) in their images.

Still RB to me also. No way I would pay RD money for that coin.

oldabeintx

I would have to see the coin in hand before paying 65RD money for it, and then I would probably want it stickered, depending on the price. I’ve seen lots of photos of Lincoln’s and based on what has been presented I would not summarily dismiss it - too tough a coin to do that.

lusterlover

Still RB and still 64+ but now I say no CAC as there seems to be some rub/cabinet fiction on the high points of the face and beard which CAC doesn't like.

TallahasseeCoinClub

With a $12,000 price differential, I wouldn't have to think twice about skipping ANY "RD" candidate - stickered, plussed, starred or whatever. The risk of a cent of that vintage changing over time is much too high for a $12,000 cost difference based on a singular grading modifier.

I realize that this might be some kind of "set registry" situation -- just all the more reason for me to entirely avoid that arena.

I like neither the strike nor the color for that coin at that market level.

coinbuf

The poster child for market grading, 64RB is my grade, very low chance of a CAC bean at that.

oreville

The O in One on the reverse side is way too weak to garner a 65. More like a 64 at best.

Also looks like a RB in both photos.

tradedollarnut

@MFeld said:

@tradedollarnut said:
If that was ever a 65, then I have no idea how to grade Lincoln‘s

Color aside, what are your objections to the coin grading 65? The surfaces and luster appear fine and I’m not bothered by the weak O in ONE as @lusterlover is.

I was taught a gem Lincoln has a well struck O. There’s also a significant tick to the left of the O. Combine the color with the tick with the weak strike and I do not give it a 65 red no matter what it looks like in hand. Give the color or give the grade but not both

MFeld

@tradedollarnut said:

@MFeld said:

@tradedollarnut said:
If that was ever a 65, then I have no idea how to grade Lincoln‘s

Color aside, what are your objections to the coin grading 65? The surfaces and luster appear fine and I’m not bothered by the weak O in ONE as @lusterlover is.

I was taught a gem Lincoln has a well struck O. There’s also a significant tick to the left of the O. Combine the color with the tick with the weak strike and I do not give it a 65 red no matter what it looks like in hand. Give the color or give the grade but not both

Thanks - I’m certainly with you regarding the color. As far as the O goes, oh.😉

Old_Collector

Buy the coin not the holder really applies here.
Fortunately, I really like nice brown toned old Lincolns, so no worries about color change or anything else with good storage.

jfriedm56

Ok, MS65+(?) 65 possible. Red, no way. Here are 2 MS65 Red that I know are MS65RD. Tell me otherwise. You make the comparison.

tradedollarnut

Well, here’s a different date in 65+ red with ticks and weak strike so it’s probably a good thing I don’t grade Lincoln cents for a living

With that said, I still don’t like the reverse at all on the OP coin

tradedollarnut

This is what a 65+ should look like. Granted, this is pretty close to 66 quality but it’s still night & day between the coins

ambro51

I can see the darkening on Lincoln’s bust/head the result of seating the coin in a Whitman folder.

tradedollarnut

And I can see the darkness above the E in ONE being the result of some thumbing to cover the scratch

World67

@ambro51 said:
I can see the darkening on Lincoln’s bust/head the result of seating the coin in a Whitman folder.

Maybe. I think probably a kraft 2x2. Either way, definitely in contact with sulphur based paper for an extended period.

pursuitofliberty

@tradedollarnut Thanks for showing the weak strike example. That's what I thought it was, therefore I didn't think it would be grade affecting. I still don't. Kind of like no FB, no FH, etc.

Of course I am also more of an early federal silver guy where striking issues are quite prevalent, and we might be a little more forgiving of those, at least though near Gem/Gem grades.

gashmios

@EastonCollection said:
I don't see it as full Red coin based on the picture. Over a $12k difference in price guide?

12 thousand dollars for what is best a temporary condition of the coin.. Can you take this off as a depreciation allowance?

mr1931S

@tradedollarnut said:
Well, here’s a different date in 65+ red with ticks and weak strike so it’s probably a good thing I don’t grade Lincoln cents for a living

With that said, I still don’t like the reverse at all on the OP coin

You've got it right on this one, tradedollarnut. In general, penny people look at their pennies primarily as art objects not money makers. It's okay to make money from trading in pennies, don't get me wrong but for you to point out the weakness of the 'O' in 'ONE' disqualifying the subject coin from MS65 grade, or GEM.......

made my heart sing. Bravo!

dcarr

@lusterlover said:
I'm in agreement with the RB and not to derail the original point, but I wouldn't call this a 65 either with half of an O missing on the reverse. 64+RB CAC IMHO.

.

The somewhat weak striking does not preclude an MS65 grade. It looks to me like a legitimate 65. The question would be RD or RB ? At one time, of course, it would have been full RD. When did it change, and has it changed enough to go RB.

.

mr1931S

I like the 's' mint Lincolns all the way from 1909 and into the 70s. I buy nice 's' Lincolns (ch VF,ch XF,ch AU, UNC are the target grades for my two Whitman album penny sets, 1909-1940) from the '10s through the '30s, mainly. Circulated preferred but nice uncs are welcome. The 's's are always in demand and i've found that I can get my price eventually when selling but I gotta be patient and don't just unload at an unhappy price because I run out of patience. Slabbed, raw, no matter. I look for raw mostly at shows. Raw Lincolns I buy will sometimes go directly to album OR the piece could find it's way into a Coin World Premier holder. I never have been able to see the sense in TPG slabbing say a VF 1913-S penny. The penny costs more to professionally slab than the market says it's worth. I try to get a good price when it comes time to pay. I've found that with Lincolns, however, the what-you-consider-high-price-to-pay-at-the-time eventually won't matter, won't matter at all after a year or so has passed since you made the purchase. A principle I follow religiously when I sell: Don't sell your penny keys and semi-keys too cheap. Red Book says the coin is worth $50? Put $55 or $60 on it and then whine to a person showing some interest in buying it that you somehow underpriced the piece as priced on the holder but will honor the price as seen written on the holder. Don't buy, the piece might be available later but at an even higher price is what to tell your potential buyer. Pennies are fun to buy, trade and sell.The 50s, 60s. Those were the days.

gashmios

@dcarr said:

@lusterlover said:
I'm in agreement with the RB and not to derail the original point, but I wouldn't call this a 65 either with half of an O missing on the reverse. 64+RB CAC IMHO.

.

The somewhat weak striking does not preclude an MS65 grade. It looks to me like a legitimate 65. The question would be RD or RB ? At one time, of course, it would have been full RD. When did it change, and has it changed enough to go RB.

.

It should by the ANA standard
MS-65 – Shows an attractive high quality of luster and strike for the date and mint. May have a few small scattered contact marks, or two larger marks may be present. One or two small patches of hairlines may show. Noticeable light scuff marks may be seen on the high points of the design. Overall quality is above average and eye appeal is very pleasing. If copper, the coin has some attractive luster with original or darkened color, as designated.

Is that high quality strike?

TallahasseeCoinClub

@dcarr said:

>

The somewhat weak striking does not preclude an MS65 grade.

>
Perhaps it does not.... but it should if $12,000 is at stake.