Graded Seated Liberty Quarters in VF
erwindoc
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Has anyone ever attempted to complete the series in graded VF? What were the tougher coins to find? Do the certified populations make it completable? Do the price guides match how difficult they are to acquire? Thanks in advance!
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Extremely tough to find nice, also several dates are really expensive, and some dates, that you think wont be that difficult to find, based onprice in price guides arent even close to first finding it, then aquiring. Be ready to spend 250k min on a vf set of quarters
its a good thing to set an eye on that goal as well, you never know til you get there
I had a complete set in VF-AU exceptions being details graded 71-cc and 86.
The tough coins are the 70-73cc, and many of the SF issues. The toughest Philadelphia is the 53NA and a few others scattered throughout like 42,66,86 etc. New Orleans is of course the 49-o which doesn't even have an official mintage figure.
You can complete the set, the only questions are with what quality and at what price. There are some crappy coins out there in straight graded holders.
I would suggest to nearly anyone who asked this question that they should think of another collecting goal unless they don't mind some aesthetically challenged coins, a perpetually unfinished set and having to chase marginal pieces at extraordinary prices every time they sporadically become available.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Try to do a date set first. It is a bit easier and less expensive.
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I'm about half way there on my business strike set with a GPA of 43 and I would like to stay north of XF40 if I can. I am not really that interested in the 1879-1890 dates as they tended to be saved similar to proofs. It's a slow methodical process that will take decades unless you have deep pockets and are not too fussy.
i would even go so far as to say 300k for nice straight grade CAC examples.
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That would be a pretty accurate estimate. 250-300k
What happens if you eliminate those coins that are overvalued for their rarity?
Which ones are those?
1854-o Huge, 78-s
In a supply vs. demand scenario, I don't understand how something is "overvalued" for its "rarity". Did you simply mean "extremely expensive because they are prohibitively hard to obtain"?
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Yeah, huge O is lame. The 42-o small date is maybe the most overvalued in the series. The 78-s is very much undervalued.
41-o that is from the hoard, As Morgan White states 42-o small date - I agree. 78-s was known early on as scarce but to me the value is overstated.
1838
1844-o
1850-o
1867
1879-1890 except maybe 1886.
If you eliminate the "overvalued" I don't think it would add up to that much as a % to the whole set.
I think the 60-s is overvalued. The 64-s is way more scarce at half the price.
But, any of these are not really overvalued when compared to halves or dimes. The quarters overall are undervalued I think.
I bought this coin, hoping to do a VF set starting with it. It was so nice I couldn’t match it so I gave up and now it’s a collection of one.
Latin American Collection
I wish I had bought it from you when you showed it to me back in the day!
That is a pretty coin!
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I thought you had sold it to a well known dealer who was putting a set together.
Thant was a great game until the 4th quarter tonight!
There are a lot of reasons why a coin within a series can be overvalued or undervalued. I'm not knowledgeable with Seated Liberty coins which is why I asked the question.
I am knowledgeable about Barber coins and I can give you an extreme example. The 1913-S Barber quarter is consider one of the three keys because of it's mintage. However, when one looks at the PCGS MS64-66 populations, it's overall rank is 29 and is valued at $26,500 in MS64. By contrast, a 1895-O Barber quarter with an overall rank of 28 is valued at $2,050. Other less extreme examples abound in the Barber series. Compare the statistics of the 1905-O Barber dime with the 1905-S. Neither coin is a key.
I did. It started Doug Winters set. I bought it back when he sold the set.
Latin American Collection
1838 overvalued? Perhaps, relative to other later dates with lower pops, but I like it as a first year of issue, and one of only three coins in the series with No Drapery:
For Jason the OP, here is some information on your topic that I got from forum member Roadrunner quite a few years ago. I was mainly collecting the halves, but dabbled in the quarters a bit. The info may be a bit dated relative to current pop reports, etc, and basically is just generalities based on his opinion, albeit a very informed opinion from years of experience:
Here's my thread analyzing the San Francisco issues:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1104394/an-analysis-of-san-francisco-liberty-seated-quarters
Sounds like you were talking about early copper for a second...
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That was my initial thought as well, but determined this would only apply if you’re adding in the S and N varieties. If you’re comparing just dates vs- the seated quarter dates and mm’s, no comparison. That series is brutal.
That thing is SWEET!
My humble "good date" in NGC10.
I do have a 42-O LD about VF at our hosts but that's probably the easiest early date.
Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
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I prefer not to use the word "overvalued". If a coin in a particular grade sells generally for $500 (just to say) then that is what it is worth and it doesn't matter what the price guide states. If a dealer is selling a coin for $500 and other dealers and auctions are selling that same date for much less, then that particular coin is overpriced or valued. But if a particular date is selling alot more than price guide than its not overpriced or valued. The price guide hasn't caught up. If you think that way your thinking than you will never complete the series. Just be patience and wait for the right coin for your set.
Actually I'm referring to coins over valued by the price guides relative to other coins in the same series. I previously mentioned an extreme example. The 1913-S Barber quarter is consider one of the three keys because of it's mintage. However, when one looks at the PCGS MS64-66 populations, it's overall rank is 29 and is valued at $26,500 in MS64. By contrast, a 1895-O Barber quarter with an overall rank of 28 is valued at $2,050. Other less extreme examples abound in the Barber series. Compare the statistics of the 1905-O Barber dime with the 1905-S. Neither coin is a key.
Hmmmm... I was just looking at Date sets only. The was I'm reading the PCGS Price Guide: for a Date Set of Seated Liberty Quarters in VF20: $19525; AU50: $41070... for Large Cents just the 1793 Vine and Bars is listed as $10500 in VF20 and $29k in AU. I must be missing something??
Date/MM sets of Seated Quarters are definitely in the "unobtainium" class of collecting...
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@erwindoc. You can visit the Liberty Seated Collector Club site to get some very detailed information on how to go about starting /building a Seated Quarter collection. There is a fellow named Johnson who has a number of articles in the E-Gobrecht plus there are searchable articles from the first 120 issues of the Gorbrecht Journal.
The summary information I will mention is that he points out that setting a complete set as your initial goal usually fails. Much of his advise centers around breaking the coins down into small groups. You can set some very achievable objectives that allow you to recognize the progress you are making. This makes building the collection a much more satisfying experience. He also stresses that you can set several different objectives. You may want an easy group (common dates), a medium challenging group (coins that may cost more or take longer to find), and also look at searching for a few of the key dates if you are in the financial position to do that early on. Hope you can find some useful information.
Best of luck no matter what you choose to do. James
About 10 years ago I seriously considered building a VF set myself. As a test, I started watching the auction results for tougher dates, and I quickly bailed on the idea. I was shocked at the demand for better dates, even coins that had issues. So many of the quarters seem to have been messed with to some degree, even ones that were straight graded.
I also considered dropping way down in grade, but I don’t care for the look of VG and lower Seated material.
All of this said, it would be such a fun series to work on! Just plan for a real challenge, both financially and availability-wise.
Dave
A lot of great comments so far. If I had to restart my collection, I think I would ignore all of the common dates. For example. I would not own an 1875 Seated Liberty quarter. I would just try to obtain the rare dates. When you have a set with over 100 coins in it, for example, Liberty Seated quarters or half dollars, there are a lot of common coins in it. Those coins don't really add much to the set. If you tell another collector you have a near-complete set of Liberty Seated quarters, it is highly unlikely that the other collector will respond with "what grade is your 1875".
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
MS63
Yes, my point wasn’t so much about price, but rather availability. The large cents don’t have any real stoppers, by date, in average grades, like F-VF. The population of coins are there. It’s just a few are pricey. And there is some competition from type set guys.
The seated quarters by date and mm? The better dates, and there are quite a few, have pops of less than 20, some less than 10. The prices aren’t exorbitant, but you might not see some for years.
If you're doing that, I'd recommend collecting a single mint. The SF coins ultimately became my favorite in the set and there's only a couple that could be considered common. Many are sleepers like the 64-s, 71-s, 72-s etc.
Or, if not that, New Orleans would be my second choice.
That's a nice MS63 1875.
I think this is a good idea. It breaks the set up into manageable pieces.
An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.
Here was my thread(s) on SF coins:
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1104394/an-analysis-of-san-francisco-liberty-seated-quarters
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1096206/age-of-the-ridiculously-large-mint-mark
I wanted originally to collect all quarter date and mintmarks with varieties, but have narrowed over the years and have stayed away from 1879-1890 (sans 1886) and some of the "1875" TYPE. My target is about 80. I have a few from @RichieURich too from back in the day - thank you! @Rhedden's got a great set and eye!
I wanted to start collecting Seated 25c back in the 1990s when I was a graduate student with a meager paycheck. As I recall, they paid us with one expired can of beans per week, which was difficult to trade for Seated 25c.
The problem wasn't the cost, though; Seated coins were way too cheap, and I knew it. I recall wondering how I was ever going to find $3,000 to buy an 1870-CC in Fine. After about a year of trying to find Seated 25c at coin shows and shops, I had an 1859 in F-12 and an 1858 in AU50. I could have potentially done well buying PCGS coins through mail order, but it was a more dangerous game back then, with very few websites showing clear pictures of the coins.
Somewhere around 2007, I was offered a tremendous collection of raw Bust and Seated 25c that had been locked up in a bank vault since the early 1960s. The owner wanted to sell the whole thing, but there were many problem coins included. We worked out a deal so that I did not pay too much for the problem coins, but I got the premium material graded and paid him more than fairly for it. I was left with a partial set of a few dozen nice business strikes, but many holes to fill, which were occupied by proofs or problem coins.
I managed to complete the business strikes in PCGS/NGC holders, minus the 1873-CC NA, roughly two years ago. The last coin I needed was an 1882-P. There is only one coin in an NGC holder - the 1856-S - which might cause some people with OCD to have their heads explode.
My set ranges from VG to MS67, with a focus on coins that are nice for the grade. I did not constrain myself to buying coins in a certain grade range, nor did I force myself to buy CAC material. I did constrain myself to buying straight graded material or raw coins that I could get graded. Most of my coins have never been sent to CAC because I "made" them myself, or else I purchased them before CAC was important. Of the purchases from the past 10 years, probably half of them are CAC approved, while the other half narrowly missed.
Buying coins over a wide grade range means there will be "something for everyone" when I sell my set some day. More potential buyers, more chances to sell coins when I need to. It also allowed me to complete the set, rather than only considering coins in a certain grade range while watching prices escalate with every passing year. I continue to upgrade to nicer coins when opportunities present themselves, but my upgrades have slowed to a trickle.
The 1875 25C welcoming committee.
I see that now... thanks! I looking at pop reports and many of these have populations in the single digits... many R6 and over coins. As you said, I was more fixated on price... I guess price doesn't matter if there aren't any coins to bid on and you literally have to wait 5-10 years or more for ANY coin to become available.
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I’ve often wondered why most collectors want their coins to match, ie. the same look and the same grade range. From my perspective my coins are in a safe deposit box and I rarely look at them. Unless I sell my set completely intact (which is unlikely because it’s not a world class or even top set) to one party what difference does it make what the grade or look is as long as they’re nice looking coins when I go to sell.
@skier07 . I too wonder about that. It is something that was heavily promoted in coin collecting when I first began in the 1960'S. I have always applied the principle that "God loves wonderous variety"; so do I. James
Stuff like this is visually unappealing when viewed together.
What about the CCs?
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