Do you like die polish and/or die clashes?

davewesen

I occasionally see some very high grade or even top pops that have heavy die polish or die clashes. What are your thoughts on these, would you buy or pass on a coin with this prominent feature? I would post a picture from Coin Facts but there are quite a few and not my coins.

Cougar1978

No - pass. Consider many of them I have seen culls.

Copperindian

Yes. I collect all FE types & varieties. There are 3 fairly well known die clashes in the series.

S-7:

S-8:

S-9:

Each clash is stated on the respective slabs (the 50C on the S-9 is covered by the bean). I consider all 3 of these to be highlights of my FE complete variety set collection. All are somewhat rare, with the S-9 most “available” & the S-7 VERY rare!

KiwiNumi

I love die clashes and die polish. I personally don't see why anyone wouldn't like die clashes, they're not distracting unless you're looking at the coin very carefully.

You

Neutral to negative on die clashes unless they’re particularly cool. Neutral to positive on die polish, which can be quite attractive at times. Neither should affect grade.

oih82w8

Yes, they can very lucrative to the well informed.

cmerlo1

Not a fan of die polish or clashes unless there's a 'wow' factor like the 2 coins below.

The dies that struck this 1979-D SBA hit so hard clashing can even be seen of the eagle's wing on SBA's neck. My favorite part of it is the earth from the reverse peeking out over her shoulder.

This 1965 nickel was polished to the point where Jefferson's neck, the bridge of his nose, and part of his pony tail were completely obliterated:

Walkerfan

I find them to be acceptable. I could take them or leave them.

BillJones

I generally prefer early die states, but if there are signs of die wear, I usually prefer die cracks. The trouble with die polishing is that many people can't tell between polish lines, which are raised and scratches or whizzing which are depressed into the surface.

Here is an example of how the grade of a coin is lowered by die cracks. This 1801 half dime is really an AU, but it's graded EF-45 because the obverse die is badly broken. The obverse is cracked in half which resulted in the loss of a lot of design detail. The coin as the luster of an AU, but it's called EF.

jesbroken

I love most anything that occurs during the presswork. Die cracks, CUDS and clashes are a favorite. While I have never collected them as such, I do not turn away from them.
Jim

291fifth

NO.

Copperindian

This crack is definitely grade limiting - it’s “AU details - planchet flaw”. Straight graded, it’s a $80-100k coin!

Catbert

I think die clashes (and cracks) add interest and character to a coin. An example from my collection (AU53 CAC):

Die polish lines can be distracting if heavy and for this reason, I tend to avoid them.

golden

I hate die clashes. I like die cracks but hate die clashes.

You

@BillJones said:
I generally prefer early die states, but if there are signs of die wear, I usually prefer die cracks. The trouble with die polishing is that many people can't tell between polish lines, which are raised and scratches or whizzing which are depressed into the surface.

Here is an example of how the grade of a coin is lowered by die cracks. This 1801 half dime is really an AU, but it's graded EF-45 because the obverse die is badly broken. The obverse is cracked in half which resulted in the loss of a lot of design detail. The coin as the luster of an AU, but it's called EF.

I would not make the conclusion that the grade on this coin was lowered because of the die cracks. I think you’re making an assumption, but that’s not necessarily what was going through the minds of the graders. Die cracks do not affect grade.

BillJones

@You said:

@BillJones said:
I generally prefer early die states, but if there are signs of die wear, I usually prefer die cracks. The trouble with die polishing is that many people can't tell between polish lines, which are raised and scratches or whizzing which are depressed into the surface.

Here is an example of how the grade of a coin is lowered by die cracks. This 1801 half dime is really an AU, but it's graded EF-45 because the obverse die is badly broken. The obverse is cracked in half which resulted in the loss of a lot of design detail. The coin as the luster of an AU, but it's called EF.

I would not make the conclusion that the grade on this coin was lowered because of the die cracks. I think you’re making an assumption, but that’s not necessarily what was going through the minds of the graders. Die cracks do not affect grade.

The grade was not lowered because of the die breaks. It was lowered because of lower details as a result of the loss of sharpness caused by the broken die. If you have copy of the Valentine half dime die variety book plates, you will note a die break to the left of the stars on the right side. That break is barely visible on this piece. Why? When the die broke completely up and down, it disappeared because the right side of the die sank to a lower level. Other design details went with it.

BillJones

@Copperindian said:

This crack is definitely grade limiting - it’s “AU details - planchet flaw”. Straight graded, it’s a $80-100k coin!

If I had a chance to buy that coin at a significant discount because of the planchet defect, I’d be a buyer.

logger7

I looked at a 1986 American silver eagle in a dealer's shop last week and was surprised to see what looked like "die polish". I did not realize that modern coins had this.

Cougar1978

No. I Pass on them / even if selling at discount hard to move them. For serious RCI problem free a must.

ChrisH821

I don't mind die polish, generally, but it depends

coinbuf

Meh, take it or leave it. I don't seek out either but don't reject either depending on the overall look of the coin.

Rc5280

I don't mind mild clashing.
Same with polishing lines within reason.
Cracks add character...
Please forgive my 'crude' outline of Miss Liberty! (1882 CC GSA ungraded)
.

Barberian

@BillJones said:

@You said:

@BillJones said:
I generally prefer early die states, but if there are signs of die wear, I usually prefer die cracks. The trouble with die polishing is that many people can't tell between polish lines, which are raised and scratches or whizzing which are depressed into the surface.

Here is an example of how the grade of a coin is lowered by die cracks. This 1801 half dime is really an AU, but it's graded EF-45 because the obverse die is badly broken. The obverse is cracked in half which resulted in the loss of a lot of design detail. The coin as the luster of an AU, but it's called EF.

I would not make the conclusion that the grade on this coin was lowered because of the die cracks. I think you’re making an assumption, but that’s not necessarily what was going through the minds of the graders. Die cracks do not affect grade.

The grade was not lowered because of the die breaks. It was lowered because of lower details as a result of the loss of sharpness caused by the broken die. If you have copy of the Valentine half dime die variety book plates, you will note a die break to the left of the stars on the right side. That break is barely visible on this piece. Why? When the die broke completely up and down, it disappeared because the right side of the die sank to a lower level. Other design details went with it.

Why should the grade be lowered? The coin is as struck.

I have this issue with this WB-1 1842-O small date half. The WB-1 is well known for often being struck with greased or collapsed dies, yet my coin gets harshly penalized for being struck that way. The coin has roughly VF25 wear in unaffected areas, with almost complete shield lines and distal wing detail. When I crossed it, I expected a grade increase, but it went from an ICG VG10 to PCGS VG8. I cried. Other WB-1s I see in CoinFacts with comparable lost detail show no apparent comparable grade reduction. I should send it to CAC for a gold bean and some numismatic justice.

The coin is dark brown and unloved by the numismatic community until I gave it a home. The Trueview was the final insult.

Die clashes are fine. Heavy die polish can be annoying and confusing when there are also hairlines present.

You

@BillJones said:

@You said:

@BillJones said:
I generally prefer early die states, but if there are signs of die wear, I usually prefer die cracks. The trouble with die polishing is that many people can't tell between polish lines, which are raised and scratches or whizzing which are depressed into the surface.

Here is an example of how the grade of a coin is lowered by die cracks. This 1801 half dime is really an AU, but it's graded EF-45 because the obverse die is badly broken. The obverse is cracked in half which resulted in the loss of a lot of design detail. The coin as the luster of an AU, but it's called EF.

I would not make the conclusion that the grade on this coin was lowered because of the die cracks. I think you’re making an assumption, but that’s not necessarily what was going through the minds of the graders. Die cracks do not affect grade.

The grade was not lowered because of the die breaks. It was lowered because of lower details as a result of the loss of sharpness caused by the broken die. If you have copy of the Valentine half dime die variety book plates, you will note a die break to the left of the stars on the right side. That break is barely visible on this piece. Why? When the die broke completely up and down, it disappeared because the right side of the die sank to a lower level. Other design details went with it.

That’s still an assumption, but if the grade was lowered due to a loss of strike detail then that’s just bad grading.

rmpsrpms

I put aside the more dramatic ones, and sometimes will photograph them to show alignments. Here's a nice one (not my coin) that I made into an animation so you can easily see which features on each side caused damage to the other:

COCollector

I actually prefer coins with die cracks and clashes, which is one reason I collect early half dollars.

I'll even go for a "Details" coin if the damage isn't bothersome, the coin is rare, and the price is right.

1811 Half O-112a (R.5)

1814 Half O-106 (R.5)

BillJones

I sold this 1865 Nickel Three Cent Piece when I was dealer after I upgraded it. I wish I had kept it because of the die clashes.

pursuitofliberty

I dig clashes, and I am a bit of a happily practicing "crack addict", so you can imagine how I feel about those

Die polish lines are a different story. I am not always a fan.

Here's some clash with a side of crack, and if you know where to look, a couple chips for good measure

.

yosclimber

@BillJones said:
I sold this 1865 Nickel Three Cent Piece when I was dealer after I upgraded it. I wish I had kept it because of the die clashes.

There are many more available with clashes like this.
Double and triple clashes are also pretty common.

CharlotteDude

I’m a “clashy” kind of guy…

BillJones

@yosclimber said:

@BillJones said:
I sold this 1865 Nickel Three Cent Piece when I was dealer after I upgraded it. I wish I had kept it because of the die clashes.

There are many more available with clashes like this.
Double and triple clashes are also pretty common.

I spotted one during an Internet search, but it had too many “carbon spots.”

scubafuel

I like die clashes a lot, the heavier the better. Die polish lines are more hit or miss, depending on where they are and the grade of the coin.

Tunis

Love me some die clashes!!!! I’ve shown this one before. I like how you can see the date, 1814, on the reverse.

Shurke

Clashes and cracks are cool. Sometime very, very cool.

On the other hand, die polish, especially heavy die polish, tends to be distracting at best.

oldabeintx

Both add interest to a coin. I don’t avoid them.

asheland

I find both interesting, especially on something unusual like a modern ASE

Bustquarterhound

@BillJones said:

@You said:

@BillJones said:
I generally prefer early die states, but if there are signs of die wear, I usually prefer die cracks. The trouble with die polishing is that many people can't tell between polish lines, which are raised and scratches or whizzing which are depressed into the surface.

Here is an example of how the grade of a coin is lowered by die cracks. This 1801 half dime is really an AU, but it's graded EF-45 because the obverse die is badly broken. The obverse is cracked in half which resulted in the loss of a lot of design detail. The coin as the luster of an AU, but it's called EF.

I would not make the conclusion that the grade on this coin was lowered because of the die cracks. I think you’re making an assumption, but that’s not necessarily what was going through the minds of the graders. Die cracks do not affect grade.

The grade was not lowered because of the die breaks. It was lowered because of lower details as a result of the loss of sharpness caused by the broken die. If you have copy of the Valentine half dime die variety book plates, you will note a die break to the left of the stars on the right side. That break is barely visible on this piece. Why? When the die broke completely up and down, it disappeared because the right side of the die sank to a lower level. Other design details went with it.

Very nice coin! Which variety is it? I think my valentine book is buried deep in the book pile

airplanenut

Ugh. The worst.

PickinndGrinnin

I love die clashes

Shurke

@airplanenut said:
Ugh. The worst.

Wow! How many times did those dies clash? I see at least 4 separate instances right under Liberty’s nose.

airplanenut

@Shurke said:

@airplanenut said:
Ugh. The worst.

Wow! How many times did those dies clash? I see at least 4 separate instances right under Liberty’s nose.

4 clashes on the obverse, and 5 on the reverse. I wanted one strongly clashed coin and this fit the bill. It was my 18th birthday present to myself.

Shurke

Amazing coin, @airplanenut.

Cougar1978

No

erscolo

No interest whatsoever.