Does anyone what’s driving Mint State Flying Eagle Cent market?
BillJones
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I have been looking for an 1858 Large Letters cent. My grade goal is MS-64. Most of the pieces I’ve seen at the big Tampa show and FUN were graded MS-65 or 66 with no CAC sticker for good reason. The asking prices were well beyond the PCGS Coinfacts retail prices.
I bid $2,400 ($2,880 with the buyers’ fee) which was a strong bid for an MS-64. It was not a great (“A coin”) MS-64. The eagle’s tail was flat struck and there was a tiny spot in the legend. There was no CAC sticker and no Eagle Eye sticker. I saw no crack out potential for a higher grade.I didn’t get it.
So what’s going on? What is the deal with the Flying Eagle cent market? Is there some investment adviser who says these coins are undervalued? I don’t understand it.
Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
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Sent you a PM…..
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Nickelodeon
@Copperindian
Would you care to share with the rest of the class? 😆
Dead Cat Waltz Exonumia
"Coin collecting for outcasts..."
Actually, I don’t have anything to shed light unto Bill’s question. I do have inventory he might consider which I’ve begun to share with him through a PM.
Generally, it seems after years of collecting these, there are periods of “feast or famine”. I can’t say when more of these may become available, but am certain they will. Years ago, there was a period where a lot of the LL’s were getting 66 upgrades. Loosening standards were the main reason. Result was a pretty sharp price depression, as the rarity of 66 LL’s came into question because of this.
Bill mentions he’s come across a number of overgraded ones; my guess would be at least some of them were graded during this period & are still in the pop.
Finally, to my knowledge, no one has asserted these FE’s are “undervalued”. In fact, if any of our members have seen an article(s) to this effect, I would be interested in reading it/them.
“The thrill of the hunt never gets old”
PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
Copperindian
Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
Copperindian
Nickelodeon
@BillJones, I understand your frustration in finding a mid-level graded, CAC’d or Eagle Eye photo seal, MS64 1858 LL FEC. That is the last coin I needed to complete my date set of 1856-1858. (4 coins). I was finally able to finish my set with a purchase of an 1858 LL MS64 CAC at a local coin show yesterday. Will post later today. Best of luck to you in your quest. Zack.
I don’t care about CAC or Eagle Eye Photo Seal. All I want is a coin that meets my standards. There is one MS-64 CAC that has been on the market at least since September at a premium price. It’s sat there because it’s over graded.
Ok, well then good luck.
I didn't think CAC stickered over graded coins.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
The same thing happened with MS 66 1912 S and other expensive Liberty Nickels about 10 years ago. I stopped collecting the series as a result.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
To paraphrase @MFeld,
A small number of coins for sale could indicate they’re held off the market by collectors who really like them and feel they are undervalued.
While you are not limiting yourself to CAC coins, consider the fact the CAC price guide is $2,450 (with a $200 premium for the sticker) for the 1858 Large Letters which has a CAC population of 108+3 and the 1857 which has a population of 311+8.
If you had a 1858 Large Letters, wouldn't you want to hold on to it?
If your going to get Flying Eagle cents your going have to pay the money. Everybody wants them. Are you ready to step up and show the green? As far as the 58 sure would want hold on to it - I would hold it until they pay me my retail cost plus price. Otherwise they don’t get the coin.
A not insignificant factor would have been the roll of gemmy 1912-S nickels that hit the market some years ago now, as well.
$2,400 won’t buy them. I bid $2,400 in a Heritage auction (add 20% to that). It didn’t win.
It’s higher than that even if they are subpar. Coins with problems sell for less. There was an MS-64 graded piece at FUN that was priced at $1,800, but it had planchets laminations on the obverse. A member here was quoting me strong retail MS-64 numbers for an MS-63 graded piece.
I’d pay the stupid money for the coin that is properly graded as an MS-64, but I have not run into them. There are MS-65 and 66 coins available at very high prices, but some of them are over graded too.
All cents seem to be at high prices. I’ve paid strong money for the large cents dates I have acquired too. Perhaps collectors and speculators are anticipating the end of the cent.
Kind of a strange situation.
With a 64 population of over 600 coins of the LL variety, I’m curious what’s driving the price and apparent shortage as well.
Type collectors generally don’t care and would likely buy an 1857 with even higher pops.
So consider date collectors doing the FE and IHC run. An 1867 in 64 bn has a population of 88 coins, and is under $800. Granted there’s no pressure from Type collectors for an 1867, but that’s still seems like a big disparity.
Many well heeled buyers flocking to FE market. Some bulking up. Aggressive bidding / they have lots of pocket / playing the long game angle. I know one show dealer playing that game (sideline angle) - he just bids to win then marks them up accordingly then to retail inventory they go - u pay his price or get lost. Usually he has the only nice ones in the room too.
Why? One would think they would be buying gold and dollars. The conventional wisdom is that the future is in high denominaitonal U.S. It's been that way since the 1960s.
At any rate, have spent 60+ years in this hobby, my attitude is "This too shall pass." The 1858 Large Letter Cent is only an add on to my one a year cent set. I have an 1858 Small Letters Cent, which is supposed to be better.
That's part of it. The other part is that I viewed personally at least eight 1912-S nickels in MS 66 holders that I thought were substandard for the grade. Prices were all of the place for these coins, and you had to separate what I thought were the properly graded coins from the ones that I thought were not. All of the coins I didn't like were in new holders.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
Big coin bias vs. small always plays some part.