Its Never Going to Stop
HiBucky
Posts: 610 ✭✭✭
People, if you have a few minutes do a search in E-Bay using two words (SILVER DOLLAR) . You will be amazed as I was as to the amount of fakes being offered and sold under the search. Many people feel that the people who buy coins on E Bay deserve what they get... Well as we all know knowledge is King. People are wasting good money buying fake dollars and it is wrong.!! These fakes are destroying the drive of new collectors entering the hobby. People who want to get involved in coin collecting are being taking advantage of not because they are greedy but they just don't know fakes exist. We all have a lot to lose here. People being turned off because they have lost money and are being taken by the bottom feeders. We all lose.
Any ideas how we can stop this once and for all ?
Comments
eBay does list the items as from China or Hong Kong and I don't even look at those items.
*
Unless you know what you’re doing, buying raw coins is asking for trouble.
whack-a-mole
it'll never stop, but if foreign governments would crack down on all counterfeits, it would help a lot
Should ebay have any thoughts toward buyer safety, it might offer more ways of limiting unwanted views suchas, items made or shipped from unregulated countries rather than individual blocked accounts. JMO
Jim
When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
can start by posting the item numbers in a new thread and have "report" "counterfeit" "ebay" in the title
if lots of people hit them all at once, we can usually get them taken down
single reports are often met with "we looked into..." and "...did not find a violation.."
Foreign governments? How about we start with domestic government…we have no ground to stand on if we don’t lead by example.
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you can own this 1928 for Under $30.00
the difficult ones are the listings that use a genuine picture but mail a counterfeit
(can start by posting the item numbers in a new thread and have "report" "counterfeit" "ebay" in the title
if lots of people hit them all at once, we can usually get them taken down
single reports are often met with "we looked into..." and "...did not find a violation..")
I think it would be a great idea if we did have a place here to to list fakes and we can report them in mass to try to place an end to the listing...
Link, please? If that's a counterfeit, it's a really good one.
And you could get your message across much better with a considerably less vague thread title.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
When it comes to selling coins, eBay’s name should be dirt now. Aside from the policing that collectors provide to the service by pointing out fake coins among their offerings, it seems that eBay has no internal program to combat the problem. One would think that once a buyer has been burned a time or two that they would no use eBay for coin buying. Perhaps it’s a matter of not knowing that you have been burned for a number of years.
At any rate, the problem lies with foreign governments who won’t police counterfeits, mainly the Chinese, which are basically lawless and eBay, which is not equipped to offer coins.
This is something where the ANA could use its influence. As others have said, this is hurting the hobby.
Since "it's never going to stop", i don't think we need to do anything. The answer is in the question.
Everyone makes this an eBay problem. It's a coin problem. IG, FB and flea markets are full of fakes as well. It is virtually impossible to police this at a distance, especially given how many good fakes there are out there.
The solution would be to only buy coins from major numismatic auction houses and coin crashes. But no one wants that to happen because collectors want to be able to sell directly to other collectors. So, you're right, this problem isn't going away.
Round and round we go, when it stops will never know 😵💫
There used to be some forum members who used to put bids in for a million dollars when they found a counterfeit on eBay to protect people from winning fake coins. Then when they didn’t pay the sellers had to go through drama with eBay. It was fun watching this happen, but I don’t know what kind of trouble the forum members got into with eBay. I think they were making dummy eBay accounts just for this purpose or something like that.
Mr_Spud
Have to start somewhere.......
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
And that would be... banning person-to-person sales? Creating a flea market patrol?
Foreign governments? Where do you think stopping counterfeit collector coins falls on their list of priorities? Don't you think that counterfeit designer goods are many times bigger than coins and no foreign governments can stop them. Very few try at all.
The ANA can't do anything by itself or for collectors. Wouldn't it have taken action if there was an easy solution?
Reporting seems to be the most effective tool and it's not too effective and not a long term cure as the effort is constant.
I like Mr. Spud's idea of getting Ebay's attention but I'd doubt that they will solve the problem. If it were easy, we or they would have fixed the problem already.
I can do little about the chaos in eBay except take advantage of it. The hidden deals are not as much in single coins as in groups and lots. You gotta find the one page in ten thousand. It’s easier than building a yacht.
That would be we the honest teaming together to crack down on the crooks. The return to vigilant justice since ebay and the government are too lazy or crooked.
Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value. Zero. Voltaire. Ebay coinbowlllc
I do not collect Morgan or Peace Dollars, so for me the fakes pass on by. Education and experience are the key for any coin one wishes to collect.
Mark…..type in 1928 Peace Dollar in the search function for eBay. Plenty of these show up…and some are sellers in the USA now too! Beyond scary…and only getting worse! I’ve attached a few screenshots for you.
There’s no rule that says a scammer can’t use photos of real coins in fraudulent listings.
Nothing is as expensive as free money.
That other possibility is the one I also considered in writing what I did.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
There is a rule... but if you are committing fraud, you don't feel bound by rules.
Scarier than this thread is that a good counterfeiter can pass some real coins, it he made sure the metal content is correct. When I was in Vietnam, I bought an 1875 CC Trade Dollar in VF-XF. I knew it was fake, or else the guy wouldn't have gotten it in the first place.
This one stuck out, because most fakes were 1875 S TDs, and were bad counterfeits. This one was very good. Took it to the Long Beach Show. Fooled some dealers when I showed it to them. The give away was the ping didn't sound right when he dropped it on the cement floor. The metal content gave it away. Otherwise, it may have slabbed.
A top drawer counterfeiter could take a real coin, match the metal content and create a new one. I'd like to know how this could be stopped.
"Seu cabra da peste,
"Sou Mangueira......."
No, it won't stop; we just need to stay educated...
Finished an article on one of the large cents from the really deceptive ones and I suspect it would pass as genuine 95% of the time. I'll pass on submitting it to a TPG but hope the article gets published in the venue I sent it to for consideration.
It can't easily be stopped. And i doubt anyone would want to devote the resources to even try. If the government wants to go after counterfeits more aggressively, they would focus on midern circulating counterfeits not classic coins. The former undermines the entire monetary system, the latter only rips off a few collectors.
If we fail to move forward on stopping these fakes, It will be the beginning of the end of coin hobby. ANACS, NGCS, PCGS better start getting funds together and figure out how to put an end to these fakes. This will effect the hobby and I guarantee you it will effect the collectors who have hundreds of coins put away for future sales and in ten years from now try selling them as real...... I am worried and you guys should be too ...
I don't think you've been paying attention. What are the TPGs supposed to do to stop this? It is an enormous multinational problem. "We" can't stop anything.
Collectors need to educate themselves and be vigilant. Otherwise they will be prime targets for scammers.
You can chase fakes on ebay and maybe get a few listings zapped, but more will take their place.
If you're going to lose sleep over it then it might not be the hobby for you.
There is no way to put an end to fakes. There have been fakes since 600 B.C. when the first coins were created and there will be fakes 1000 years from now. This is not a new problem, it's just more visible. It may be more common just due to the sheer number of struck fakes out there. But it is not new and it is not going away. What do you think the TPGs or the ANA could do with their measly resources to even put a dent in the problem.
Whoever, within the United States, makes or brings therein from any foreign country, or possesses with intent to sell, give away, or in any other manner uses the same, except under authority of the Secretary of the Treasury or other proper officer of the United States, any token, disk, or device in the likeness or similitude as to design, color, or the inscription thereon of any of the coins of the United States or of any foreign country issued as money, either under the authority of the United States or under the authority of any foreign government shall be fined under this title.
(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 709; July 16, 1951, ch. 226, § 3, 65 Stat. 122; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(B), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2146.)
I wonder if E Bay can be held liable being used a venue to sell fake and counterfeit coins. I will continue to notify E bay of fakes and send this little clip with my e mails. I will also send the clip to the seller. So I''ll do my small part. I would hope that PCGS would add a forum for fake and counterfeit coins so we can post fakes here. Maybe others forums could do the same. Its a small part but its something. BTW I don't believe we can't do something to curb the sale of these counterfeit coins !
And FB and IG and every flea market...
And if you hold the venue liable, then you can kiss the BST goodbye.
You should start with flea markets and coin shows. Much easier to enforce in face-to- face settings.
That's great. But how are you going to apply a domestic law to a foreign citizen? You could go after the US buyer, but I'm not sure that is going to help.
Don't you think that counterfeit designer goods are many times bigger than coins and no foreign governments can stop them.
I just bought my son a Carhart sweatshirt only to find out it was a cheap knockoff made to look real. Counterfeits are everywhere. I wonder how many coins we own, as a group here on this forum, are fake...
My friend's wife wanted a $3500 Louis Vitton purse for Christmas. I told him (kidding) that you should never buy a genuine LV bag. When he asked why, I told him that everyone was going to assume it was a knock-off anyway.
I don't know any dealers who haven't bought a fake. And based on personal experience, more than 50% of key date coins in collections are fakes... even old collections.
Since common sense isn’t so common it will never stop. I’ve purchased $1,000 coins on eBay after reviewing the coin, review the seller and checking the holder. You have to be will to do your work. I don’t touch anything raw from a seller with few reviews and provides loose pictures.
I preach education; spend a lot of my free time writing articles in as many venues as will accept them for the Collector and Hobby. If we can't stop them maybe we can STOP BUYING THEM from the folks making a profit on us...
My latest podcast for Coin Q&A seems to be gaining some traction:
Counterfeiting American coins is perfectly legal in China, and indeed would be actively encouraged by the Chinese government. If the Chinese government could be persuaded to make counterfeiting foreign coins as serious an offence as counterfeiting Chinese government money, that would certainly help.
Failing Chinese government co-operation, can the flood of Chinese fakes be stopped? In theory, yes. Putting a complete embargo on all trade with China will put a major dent in it, at least until the counterfeiting starts to pick up the pace in Nigeria or Brazil or wherever else. Fully closing the borders and allowing no people or goods into or out of the country would be more effective. But I don't think anyone is seriously expecting or hoping to completely trash the global economy just to stop a few containerloads of counterfeit coins.
Failing that, thoroughly inspecting every single shipping container, shipped package and piece of luggage coming into the country would help too. The government would need to hire the equivalent of the entire population of Los Angeles as customs agents to do all those additional inspections in a timely manner. And of course, you would need to train all those new inspectors in how to detect counterfeit coins.
So yes, it "can be stopped". But not economically.
Roman emperor Marcus Aurelius, "Meditations"
Apparently I have been awarded one DPOTD.