"Numismatic Scholar of the 20th Century" --- To A Thrice Convicted Felon?
JCH22
Posts: 256 ✭✭✭✭
Was a bit shocked to find that Breen was "unanimously" awarded "Numismatist Scholar of the Twentieth Century" while he was in prison for his third conviction. The award was reported by Coin World in October 1992
Even more shocking was to find that leading names continued to support and collaborate with him in prison up until his death.
Revelation has made me rethink the judgment and credibility of many numismatic writers ... Also, has kind of soured me on research....
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Apparently, some folks will turn a blind eye over someone's misdoings while praising them on other doings.
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Many of the names you know from history got there believing in their own greatness and stepping on others. I am rarely surprised when examples are brought forward.
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A lot of his research has been proven to be flawed.
Can one not be a felon and a numismatic scholar?
Appears his academic accomplishments overshadowed his antisocial behavior amongst his peers.
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I'd like to think that if I had a friend in jail, essentially serving a life sentence, I'd try to help lift his spirits, whatever he did.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
We are different.
I would question myself why I did not see my friend of many years predilection in time to prevent harm to another child, and cut him off, certainly by his 3rd conviction. I would not do the following:
You know what they say about "casting the first stone" and all that. This is brought up routinely, why not give it a rest already since everyone knows the story and nothing stands to be gained.
Please point me in the direction of one of the routine threads that previously brought the above information to light--missed all of them.
My point was not to rehash Breen's crimes. The information directly goes to the judgment and credibility of his supporters. No stones used, just their own words.
Your judgement is essentially that he should not be forgiven.
Some people are capable of forgiving far worse crimes, such as murder.
Forgiving is not the same as forgetting or approval.
It is related to a person's values, not so much their "judgement and credibility".
It's a personal choice, and some people choose not to do it. That is fine.
Classic guilt by association fallacy. 30 year old letters reflecting attitudes and opinions which may or may not be still held have no bearing on anyone's credibility, the quality of their research, their standing, or their experience and skill on numismatic matters.
Judgement, probably. But not credibility.
While you are entitled to your opinion, i don't think that forgiveness itself can be considered to affect the "credibility" of his friends. It may reflect on their "judgment", given the nature of his crimes, but of what consequence is that to the dead? So, you don't want to be friends with Eric Newman. What, exactly, does that change in numismatic circles?
As one of those who signed the original August 1992 Rittenhouse Society letter some comments are in order. All of us were fully aware of Walter’s other life and had no use for it. JCH22 castigates those who signed the letter and attacks the credibility of numismatic research of anyone whose name appears. It would seem that JCH22’s knowledge of such matters is open to question. I sign my name to this note and suggest that JCH22 do the same.
Denga (RWJ)
I do not fully appreciate what act the supporters of Breen were purportedly forgiving, Perhaps a breach of friendship—as none were direct victims of Breen’s crimes.
I do not think public acclimation of an Award of "Numismatist Scholar of the Twentieth Century" is any part of the forgiveness process of crimes committed against others. I see no benefit following from that award to the actual victims of notorious crimes. Only to the perpetrator. That, is a decision of inexcusably bad judgment.
I really can not find any excusable reasons for the complete failure in judgement as to acclaim such a person, in public, in print. No matter how it might be spun, they knowing celebrated, and continued collaboration. That is a failure under any standard I am familiar with. `
In my discipline, and in the subjects, I have published, judgment is key to character, and character is a key to credibility.
My point in posting was to provide information that I was surprised to find when I was looking into a separate subject. It is relevant to some decisions made by some figures seen as authorities in numismatics. Inexcusably poor, under any kind of known, even quasi, professional standard.
Anyone can make as much, some, or little of it, as he see fit.
Thank you to many for the courtesies-- enjoyed the forum. I am out.
I see that JCH22 brags about his accomplishments and published works yet refuses to identify them. He also does not post his name which says all that is necessary. Reminds me of the old saying about the pot and the kettle.
Though I find the award and support a bit odd, it is three decades old.
Sensitivities, sensibilities, and social norms have changed much in that time.
Not sure I get the relevance.
Why stop with Breen?
Sheldon?
Ford?
All have had differing levels of controversy follow them.
Bailing out is probably good... you broke some forum rules and likely will get the ban hammer.
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No doubt disturbing to see that letter and the names attached.
A sordid chapter in numismatic history involving a noted scholar should not be hidden or avoided. A lesson in dark human behavior, all a matter of record and not to be taken lightly.
I hope you come back. Many of us enjoy your posts.
In a separate note, setting aside his reprehensible crimes for a moment, I don't understand how Breen could be Numismatist of the Century when he just made up a significant amount of his research. Just straight from his imagination.
There is evil in this world, there is no doubt about that.
In Breen's time, he was seen as a mammoth of research. Today, many of the researchers who have fact checked him have found that he seems to have done more damage than good with his works.
Coin Photographer.
Bob, we’ve known each other since we both wrote for Numismatic Scrapbook Magazine. I consider your body of numismatic research to be outstanding. I would be happy to compare it to JCH22’s if he would care to identify himself.
I don't see how anyone could read his Encyclopedia, for example, and be anything short of astounded by how much solid information is in there. Sure, he made some mistakes. And sure, he filled in some gaps with speculation and presented it as fact. But it's ridiculous to say that his work did more damage than good.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
As if "cutting him off" might somehow protect future victims? In that situation, best to report your friend to the authorities. Doesn't mean you can't still be friends.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Interesting conversation and documentation. Breen’s troubling behavior aside, his Encyclopedia of US Coins and his Encyclopedia of Half Cents transformed me from a teenager with a mild interest in old coins into a passionate life long numismatist/hobbyist. I used to pour over his books, and to this day I collect half cents. I still have my old copies, decades later.
At that point in my life I had no idea about the acts for which he was rightly imprisoned.
I do hope his victims were able to recover and move on with happy and productive lives.
Anyone who considers Breen's Encyclopedia useless has no doubt never seen or used that book. It is still the single most influential book in my Numismatic library. I left the judgement on his personal life to the courts. I was not a member of his fraternity and I just accept we live in a world of shades and shadows rather than black and white. James
Interesting. Please name the researchers and indicate the facts which they checked and found to be wrong.
Please let us know what “significant amount” of research Breen made up from his imagination.
12 signatures
12 Disciples
To err is human. To forgive is divine.
I keep one encyclopedia for study.
I study one book for guidance.
Agreed. The research stands.
Breen was certainly a flawed individual in his personal life, and paid the price via our earthly courts, And, IMO and personal view, judgement in the Highest Court of all.
We are all flawed humans. Does that mean all of our good achievements should thus be negated and banned or destroyed? Or never recognized in any way?
Can you not admire an author that did a splendid job consolidating previous information into a concise, easily read book that is over 99% correct?
Is it not okay for me to feel Barry Bonds was a great baseball player, that Lance Armstrong was a Tour de France monster and the over 1 BILLION Catholics in the world do not agree with what some priests did to some young boys.
Here are a couple threads for you since you felt the need to bring up something from 30 years ago ...
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/787120/happy-birthday-walter-breen-post-a-breen-numbered-coin-or-a-breen-story
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/639802/walter-breen-what-will-have-been-his-greatest-contribution-to-numismatics
https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/comment/6347413#Comment_6347413
No one wants to give John Wilkes Booth any credit for his acting career either.
Maybe that's because he wasn't that good an actor. Lol. The modern period is full of famous actors and singers with questionable personal lives who are feted for their professional lives.
@JCH22 :
The Breen issue is simply ugly and old - and therefore earned you a bunch of comments!
But if you’re interested, William H Sheldon (creator of the 70-point grade scale that we use today) had a life that included numerous rare coin felonies, and naked college students.
Sheldon would be a much more entertaining research subject for you.
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I don't know what to think about this thread. I never knew the whole Breen story, just what had been inferred on various threads over the years. So, today I let Wikipedia fill me in.
I am generally opposed to "canceling" people for doing things that were legal or acceptable in their era. Of course, this doesn't apply to Breen, at least not in the US (in certain other countries it was, and is, legal). In any case, Breen was held accountable for his actions, and there are people who have been convicted of serious offenses who have been "rehabilitated" in the eyes of their peers. Whether or not this should apply to him is up to each person to decide.
History should be recorded, preserved, and studied, but it should ideally not ignite modern battles over what happened years ago. And people who study history should try to be dispassionate about the facts they encounter during research.
But the OP seems quite determined to pass judgement and extend that judgement to others who were colleagues of the person. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with that.
Even if you are in the forgiving business, I'd imagine it is made more difficult to be empathetic toward those who don't seek it and continued to declare their innocence.
Here is an article from Coinweek about Breen: https://coinweek.com/confronting-breen/
This guy was awful.
I believe you yourself can count yourself among their number.
Coin Photographer.
During an ANA summer seminar many years ago my coin buddies and I noticed that Breen was very attentive to a boy of about 12. We also remarked how watchful the boy’s mother was, thank God in retrospect. This before the public disclosures. We also had lunch with him during the seminar. At first we were dazzled, but after spending time with him all agreed that he was a major *****. Not a nice person and obviously so.
.> @Maywood said:
Are you equating momentary youthful indiscretions and cancel culture with preying on children over a lifetime?
We aren’t talking about stealing a car for a joyride, dabbling in illicit substances or making an offensive post on social media.
The guy was convicted of offenses against children multiple times. And it wasn’t a lifetime ago - he apparently continued to do so his whole life.
The fact that his behavior was well known and the ANA continued to allow him to be around children is inexcusable. Would the ANA have allowed a known coin thief to continue to attend shows?
Wow, the indignation that comes with self-righteousness can be amazing!!
I should point out that Mr. Breen died in 1993, so yes, it was a lifetime ago when all this took place, more than 30 years. Yet it keeps getting dredged up. To your point of it being well known and the ANA did nothing, Mr. Sheldon was well known as a thief and yet the ANA did nothing. Finally, youthful indiscretions don't earn the wrath of culture cancel, but I think you know that.
I don't defend Mr. Breen or Mr. Sheldon, but I don't believe it does any good to continue to run them down when they've been dead this many years.
You may be right, especially with regard to us geezers. However, history to us can be news to younger generations and it often delivers a lesson or stimulates thought.
But you are defending him. And preying on children is indefensible.
It appears unclear whether Sheldon was a thief and/or whether that was known to or suspected by the ANA at the time. To my knowledge, he was not even arrested much less convicted in a court of law of theft.
There have been other threads here concerning Breen's criminal perversions. I remember seeing him at coin shows in his bright tie-dyed shirts and lederhosen which caused him to stand out in the crowd. One poster in one of the past threads said that there were ANA members who volunteered to follow Breen around the bourse room floor to make sure that he didn't prey on any of the young volunteer pages so I think it's wrong to say "the ANA did nothing".
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
That sounds like ANA members took it upon themselves to try to mitigate the risk. That is not the same as the organization taking official action.
I am an ANA member, but my decisions and actions do not constitute official actions by the ANA.
What "official action" should the ANA have taken that wouldn't have resulted in a possible lawsuit against the ANA? Can they just ban him from their coin shows which are open to the general public?
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Excellent thread. I appreciate the discussion at a time when many want to just erase/forget/coverup history when it doesn't make them feel good to think about it.
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This is an excellent point, and shows some of the potential problems associated with viewing historical events through a modern lens. The complete and disturbing record of Breen's life is known now but not then.
And remember that all of this occurred pre-internet. Information was infinitely tougher to come by back then.
It sounds like based on the experiences shared above that he was targeting children at ANA events.
Yes, they most certainly should have banned / trespassed him from shows, ANA events and ANA property.
Just the same as I hope they would ban someone today if that person committed violence, targeted victims or committed theft at an ANA event today.
Did you not read the personal experiences posted above? Parents and adults at the time were actively protecting their children from him. It was known at the time and he was convicted at the time.
Child predation has was wrong and illegal then as it is now - this isn’t an issue of today’s standard vs the standard in 1980 or 1990.
IMHO he deserved it! How old are you?
PS I want to thank you for your research, I knew he was far from an honorable man and did some unspeakable things BUT I never knew he went to prison or won that distinction.