Walter Breen: What will have been his greatest contribution to Numismatics??
Lakesammman
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I awoke today at 2 AM and needed something to read to get back to sleep. So, I started reading the colonial section in Breens Encyclopedia.
We all take his varieties and rarity ratings with a grain of salt, but I find the historical material he writes very useful.
It got me thinking.
What do you think was his greatest contribution to numismatics, all personal issues aside?
We all take his varieties and rarity ratings with a grain of salt, but I find the historical material he writes very useful.
It got me thinking.
What do you think was his greatest contribution to numismatics, all personal issues aside?
"My friends who see my collection sometimes ask what something costs. I tell them and they are in awe at my stupidity." (Baccaruda, 12/03).I find it hard to believe that he (Trump) rushed to some hotel to meet girls of loose morals, although ours are undoubtedly the best in the world. (Putin 1/17) Gone but not forgotten. IGWT, Speedy, Bear, BigE, HokieFore, John Burns, Russ, TahoeDale, Dahlonega, Astrorat, Stewart Blay, Oldhoopster, Broadstruck, Ricko, Big Moose, Cardinal.
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peacockcoins
access to information that the public normally would never seen, and he could compile it in a format that I can
understand!
bob
Before Walter became the infant terrible of the American numismatic scene in the early 1950s, you can count on one hand the number of numismatic scholars who went directly to original source material to produce their work. Sylvester Crosby did. So did Edgar Adams, as well as other less well-known writers (like Nolie Mumey and Neil Carothers). But Walter was the first to really dig into the National Archives, dig through the original research, and find truths that we take for granted today -- things like mintage figures, for example, which were long simply guesses. Or simply wrong.
Anyone who does truly original, primary-source research today stands on the shoulders of Breen, even if it means correcting his inconsistencies.
I also believe Walter was the first scholar to ever attempt complete censuses of various rarities, an aspect that is now commonplace and often trotted out in auction catalogues when great rarities are sold.
Betts medals, colonial coins, US Mint medals, foreign coins found in early America, and other numismatic Americana
<< <i>Easy: footnotes. >>
Conversely, Breen's lack of footnotes has convinced a number of folks that their work must always be thoroughly documented
Excellent point! It's why some of us are so anal about documenting our sources now -- because finding a Breenian dead end is about as frustrating as it gets.
Betts medals, colonial coins, US Mint medals, foreign coins found in early America, and other numismatic Americana
<< <i>It's why some of us are so anal about documenting our sources now. >>
I do it because my boss insists upon it.
60 years into this hobby and I'm still working on my Lincoln set!
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<< <i>I awoke today at 2 AM and needed something to read to get back to sleep. So, I started reading the colonial section in Breens Encyclopedia.
..., all personal issues aside? >>
Good mornin' Lakes...
Now we know what puts you to sleep.
<< <i>What is Walter wearing around his neck, does anyone know? >>
I believe it's a Peace Metal. (Of the L&C kind)
Ray
<< <i>Wow, I have picked up on the "weirdness" of him from previous threads, but had no idea. I just did a wiki search on him and OMG, what a freak. >>
I had to go and read that...the bio went from OK to downright sick, nasty and sad. I had to do a double take on his NAMBLA involvement and jail time. I didn't know all of this. I'm sure most of it is true...I always take Wiki with a grain of salt since it's an open forum and an ever changing process.
Ren
He always made time for the youth. I thought that was so admirable at the time but now I wonder.
Wiki (Very similiar) Link
Victim Link
Bio of his ex-wife Link
And I post this as it seems there are several other people who wonder what all the hubbub about him is about. I did not ever meet the man, and have no opinion other than his acts appear disgusting in his personal life. I am not trying to hijack the thread, but the OP opened up his personal life with the "personal life aside" comment in the original post. I do find it interesting that there seems to be a consensus that his "other life" as it is called "was both a kept secret and tolerated behavior in both science fiction and numismatic circles". I am sorry, but once your sickness results in jail time it is no longer a secret. Sick, sick man IMHO. Sounds like a brilliant man who had demons he either couldn't or wouldn't control.
Edited to add: I did not know any of this about the man until this post this morning when I decided to poke around and see what I could find. There are several threads on this board also, and I am not trying to start a Breen bashing with this post.
<< <i>Walter Breen: What will have been his greatest contribution to Numismatics?? >>
Pink magic markers (or was it purple?)
Tie Die?? (Was he a revolutionary in casual wear, at coin shows, which led to the current fashion of Hawaiian Shirts?)
Deodorant?
<< <i>Answers.com Link
Wiki (Very similiar) Link
Victim Link
Bio of his ex-wife Link
And I post this as it seems there are several other people who wonder what all the hubbub about him is about. I did not ever meet the man, and have no opinion other than his acts appear disgusting in his personal life. I am not trying to hijack the thread, but the OP opened up his personal life with the "personal life aside" comment in the original post. I do find it interesting that there seems to be a consensus that his "other life" as it is called "was both a kept secret and tolerated behavior in both science fiction and numismatic circles". I am sorry, but once your sickness results in jail time it is no longer a secret. Sick, sick man IMHO. Sounds like a brilliant man who had demons he either couldn't or wouldn't control.
Edited to add: I did not know any of this about the man until this post this morning when I decided to poke around and see what I could find. There are several threads on this board also, and I am not trying to start a Breen bashing with this post. >>
That last link was a shocker for me, I had no idea she was married to Walter Breen. My mom was good friends with Marion, she met here well after the 70's divorce.
Were it not for literature dealer Charlie Davis, I would have met him at the 1988 GSNA show, where his Encyclopedia was launched. It was my first "big" coin show and Charlie had a massive, book-filled booth outside the bourse floor. Walter was there for a few hours signing books. In the meantime, Charlie pretty much held me hostage at his table the entire day (without me knowing that he was) so that I wouldn't be around Walter. As it turned out, my one day crash course in numismatic literature led to a lifelong friendship with Charlie and a love of old books, so it was a trade well made. I pulled the same trick with my friend Rian Thum (former YN, now writing his PhD thesis at Harvard) when he wanted me to introduce him at the 1991 ANA show in Chicago. Rian weighed about 90 pounds back then and was about 14. I managed to avoid Walter all day and thus Rian never met him.
Broadstruck -- the large Lloyd you remember was Lloyd Entenman. Have you and I crossed paths before? From where you've been and what you know, we must have.
Walter was an interesting guy. Very disturbed, traumatically abused for most of his life, tragically prone to criminality and unspeakable behavior, but interesting. On more than one occasion I've wished I was older when I met him so I would have felt more comfortable spending time with him -- his knowledge of not just coins, but music, history, religion, etc. would have been fun to tap into. As it was, the little time I spent with him provoked feelings ranging from being really impressed with what he knew, really curious in asking him questions, but fully cognizant that he was pretty gross on a number of levels.
Betts medals, colonial coins, US Mint medals, foreign coins found in early America, and other numismatic Americana
That was very informative and bluntly honest. Thank you for sharing some of your knowledge on this issue.
That never made any sense to me - why people knew what Walter was all about, and yet allowed him to interact with kids at conventions, summer seminars, etc. I'm sure not every kid has their mom on their elbow the whole time. I would like to think that things have changed, and that there would be no question nowadays that show promoters, organizations and others in the collecting community should keep pedophiles like Walter Breen away from kids.
In addition to what I already wrote as a response to the OP, the casual wear thing may have gotten a more permissive license thanks to Walter as someone else pointed out. Not sure if that is a good thing or not. The Hawaiian shirts are ok, as it gives middle-aged men (like myself) something acceptably sporty and untucked to wear. The pizza-stained teeshirts and birkenstocks,... well.
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SSDC - Life Member
ANA - Pay As I Go Member
I awoke today at 2 AM and needed something to read to get back to sleep. So, I started reading the colonial section in Breens Encyclopedia.
We all take his varieties and rarity ratings with a grain of salt, but I find the historical material he writes very useful.
It got me thinking. What do you think was his greatest contribution to numismatics, all personal issues aside?
I knew Walter from about 1960 on. However the second or third time I talked with him his wife
and son were there so it was not for some time that I learned that the various rumors were true.
He has been accused of fabrication, which is true enough, but he also was open to opposing
views. When I saw something that he had written that was clearly wrong I would let him know
either in person or by phone. He would write down the correction and in the earlier days the
change was often made. In his later days he would still write down the material but the constant
drugs apparently made him forget what he had. It is also the case that much of his material was
stored in some kind of basement cubicle at his Berkeley apartment house and was flooded
on more than one occasion.
As a general rule he did not discuss other topics unless he knew that the person was interested.
In my case he knew that I was interested in Ambrose Bierce, who grew up not far from where I live,
and he sent me some of the "dictionary" entries for his Bierce update. Whether it was ever published
I do not know. (For those who do not recognize the name, Ambrose Bierce was a well-known
writer from about 1870 to 1914, when he disappeared in Mexico. Bierce, among other titles, wrote the
famous Devil's Dictionary.)
Denga
Edited : grammar-crap
<< <i>He should have died much much sooner.
And who are you to make such a judgement? Did you know Walter?
<< <i>
<< <i>He should have died much much sooner.
And who are you to make such a judgement? Did you know Walter? >>
Regardless if he knew Walter personally or not, we all know who and what Walter is. And I have no problem with his statement. Given your logic we can't say anything bad about Hitler because we didn't know him??? LOL!
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Buying great coins - monster eye appeal only.
There was an earlier incident when his house was raided by postal inspectors who recovered a bunch of coins, folks had sent in for an opinion. The postal inspectors seem to bend over backwards to point out that Breen was innocent of any criminal intent, but was just overwhelmed.
Are you even remotely serious? The kid was 10!
but if the question is what is his greatest contribution to numismatics, it is in my opinion his Encyclopedia of US Coins.