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Accidentally stumbled on this 1794 dollar today!

MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,240 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited October 11, 2024 6:02AM in U.S. Coin Forum


Unfortunately not for sale. 😢

Andy Lustig

Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.

Comments

  • hummingbird_coinshummingbird_coins Posts: 1,087 ✭✭✭✭✭

    May I ask how you stumbled upon it?

    Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
    Life is roadblocks. Don't let nothing stop you, 'cause we ain't stopping. - DJ Khaled

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,240 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I wanted to check out their library and there were a few showcases of coins on display like they were no big deal. And compared to some of the art on the wall, I guess they really are no big deal!

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,673 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 11, 2024 6:28AM

    Talk about original, I like it as a 53 but I can see it in a 55 holder. It has 58 details but luster looks muted severely. With halo rarities grades who knows though

  • tcollectstcollects Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I feel like I've seen pictures of that one before, it's one of the best, isn't it?

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,240 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @tcollects said:
    I feel like I've seen pictures of that one before, it's one of the best, isn't it?

    It’s a good one but it doesn’t make the top 10 list.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 11, 2024 7:58AM

    @tcollects said:
    I feel like I've seen pictures of that one before, it's one of the best, isn't it?

    Seeing as how it looks like a copper example, it’s got to be one of the best. But it’s also got to be one of the worst.😉 Edited to add: If it’s silver, that’s a different story.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • OAKSTAROAKSTAR Posts: 7,033 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Again, what library? Who's library?

    Disclaimer: I'm not a dealer, trader, grader, investor or professional numismatist. I'm just a hobbyist. (To protect me but mostly you! 🤣 )

  • hummingbird_coinshummingbird_coins Posts: 1,087 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @tcollects said:
    I feel like I've seen pictures of that one before, it's one of the best, isn't it?

    Seeing as how it looks like a copper example, it’s got to be one of the best. But it’s also got to be one of the worst.😉

    It looks silver to me based on the color of the worn areas.

    Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
    Life is roadblocks. Don't let nothing stop you, 'cause we ain't stopping. - DJ Khaled

  • MWallaceMWallace Posts: 4,088 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @hummingbird_coins said:

    @MFeld said:

    @tcollects said:
    I feel like I've seen pictures of that one before, it's one of the best, isn't it?

    Seeing as how it looks like a copper example, it’s got to be one of the best. But it’s also got to be one of the worst.😉

    It looks silver to me based on the color of the worn areas.

    Also, there are file marks. I may be corrected, but I don't think copper was filed.

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,240 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It’s definitely silver. Very heavily toned silver.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • tcollectstcollects Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MrEureka said:
    They had some great furniture too. Took this pic of my favorite.

    I feel like I've seen that too, that's something famous, are you in Holland or?

  • ChrisH821ChrisH821 Posts: 6,465 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Rijks Museum in Amsterdam? Their coin and medal collection is in the library. But from what I remember they have their 1794 dollar on a black background and the coin is darker.

    Collector, occasional seller

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,240 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @ChrisH821 said:
    Rijks Museum in Amsterdam? Their coin and medal collection is in the library. But from what I remember they have their 1794 dollar on a black background and the coin is darker.

    Ding ding ding! I need to visit them again and look at the rest of the collection!

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • Namvet69Namvet69 Posts: 8,949 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Heck of a stumble. Love a museum. Thanks for sharing

    BST: endeavor1967, synchr, kliao, Outhaul, Donttellthewife, U1Chicago, ajaan, mCarney1173, SurfinHi, MWallace, Sandman70gt, mustanggt, Pittstate03, Lazybones, Walkerguy21D, coinandcurrency242 , thebigeng, Collectorcoins, JimTyler, USMarine6, Elkevvo, Coll3ctor, Yorkshireman, CUKevin, ranshdow, CoinHunter4, bennybravo, Centsearcher, braddick, Windycity, ZoidMeister, mirabela, JJM, RichURich, Bullsitter, jmski52, LukeMarshall, coinsarefun, MichaelDixon, NickPatton, ProfLiz, Twobitcollector,Jesbroken oih82w8

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,401 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @hummingbird_coins said:

    @MFeld said:

    @tcollects said:
    I feel like I've seen pictures of that one before, it's one of the best, isn't it?

    Seeing as how it looks like a copper example, it’s got to be one of the best. But it’s also got to be one of the worst.😉

    It looks silver to me based on the color of the worn areas.

    It appears that you were correct 👍, which means I was incorrect.😬

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • TxCollectorTxCollector Posts: 417 ✭✭✭✭

    @MrEureka said:

    @ChrisH821 said:
    Rijks Museum in Amsterdam? Their coin and medal collection is in the library. But from what I remember they have their 1794 dollar on a black background and the coin is darker.

    Ding ding ding! I need to visit them again and look at the rest of the collection!

    Nice! That also has to be the only museum that has a Michelin starred restaurant on site.

  • RichieURichRichieURich Posts: 8,451 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Any day you see a 1794 U. S. dollar is certainly a memorable day!

    An authorized PCGS dealer, and a contributor to the Red Book.

  • jesbrokenjesbroken Posts: 9,966 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I was at the Rijks Museum several time in early 70's. Do not remember the desk or the coins, but over 50 years ago. I remember the beautiful paintings, huge wall sized paintings.
    Especially liked his "Night Watch". Wished I had seen the coins and that desk.
    Jim


    When a man who is honestly mistaken hears the truth, he will either quit being mistaken or cease to be honest....Abraham Lincoln

    Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.....Mark Twain
  • goldengolden Posts: 9,557 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Thanks for showing us that coin.

  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,522 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks retoned. A solid AU 55. Nice to stumble on things like that. I racewalk; when I stumble, I usually trip over something and can fall. I think you're doing better than I am.

    "Vou invadir o Nordeste,
    "Seu cabra da peste,
    "Sou Mangueira......."
  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,093 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Excluding Rarity Points I could probably stretch to an AU-50.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • SaorAlbaSaorAlba Posts: 7,536 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Curiously the Rijks Museum also has a small outlet in the Schiphol Airport in Amsterdam. I noticed it and burnt up half an hour in there - they even had some old masters.

    In memory of my kitty Seryozha 14.2.1996 ~ 13.9.2016 and Shadow 3.4.2015 - 16.4.21
  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 11, 2024 12:07PM

    @Elcontador said:
    Looks retoned. A solid AU 55. Nice to stumble on things like that. I racewalk; when I stumble, I usually trip over something and can fall. I think you're doing better than I am.

    I can't claim to know for certain, but to me, the coin looks like it could be about as original as we'll ever see.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • mlittlemlittle Posts: 138 ✭✭✭

    Do you have a photo of the back of the coin and, if so, can you show us the photo?

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,085 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Neat coin. It's too bad that there are so many distracting and unsightly adjustment marks on it. I know the US Mint put these marks on the planchet and it was part of the minting process, but I still don't care for them.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • PerryHallPerryHall Posts: 46,085 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @mlittle said:
    Do you have a photo of the back of the coin and, if so, can you show us the photo?

    It was in a museum so I would assume it was laying flat in a display case and it was photographed through the glass cover.

    Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
    "Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
    "Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire

  • WinLoseWinWinLoseWin Posts: 1,566 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MrEureka, any thoughts on the condition of the 1794 dollar or info on what others have graded it? Any frost visible under the toning or was the lighting good enough to tell?

    It looks like at least choice EF or AU detail. Wonder if it would be considered problem free or details from the toning. Almost looks like it has been through a fire.

    .
    .

    @mlittle said:
    Do you have a photo of the back of the coin and, if so, can you show us the photo?

    It appears the photo in the OP was taken by the museum and I did not find that they had one showing the reverse. Not sure why go to the bother of taking photos without getting both sides. But there may be two sides of a coin as to their reasoning.

    https://rijksmuseum.nl/en/collection/KOG-MP-1-5152

    "To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin

  • WinLoseWinWinLoseWin Posts: 1,566 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just noticed that today is the exact 230th anniversary of striking all the 1794 dollars.

    If only the mint would issue a medal or coin commemerating this. But, it probably wouldn't get much notice or discussion here.

    Interesting that to see that Mint Director David Rittenhouse personally owned all 1,758 of them at one time in partial return for his deposit of silver bullion.

    .
    .

    Whose silver was used for 1794 dollar?

    https://numismaticnews.net/archive/whose-silver-used-1794-dollar

    "To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin

  • GoBustGoBust Posts: 594 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Yes i took a photograph of that coin about 5 it 6 years ago Andy. I was looking at all their military medals and voila an amazing orginal 1794 dollar in that case.

  • MrEurekaMrEureka Posts: 24,240 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @WinLoseWin said:

    @MrEureka, any thoughts on the condition of the 1794 dollar or info on what others have graded it? Any frost visible under the toning or was the lighting good enough to tell?

    It looks like at least choice EF or AU detail. Wonder if it would be considered problem free or details from the toning. Almost looks like it has been through a fire.

    Hard to grade a coin by the obverse only, especially in bad light, but it looks it would go into a 50 holder. It's definitely too dark, and (based on the toning pattern and lack of luster) it was probably cleaned pretty heavily well over a century ago. It also has what looks like a pin scratch (but could be a struck-through) at the LI of LIBERTY. And the adjustment marks don't help.

    Andy Lustig

    Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.

    Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
  • Plus00VltraPlus00Vltra Posts: 33 ✭✭✭

    It is a shame that only 50% of this coin is visible. Few museums are designed for numismatists.

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,093 ✭✭✭✭✭

    That “scratch” through “LI” looks like it might have been on the planchet. Couldn’t say for sure without handling the piece.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • Mr Lindy Mr Lindy Posts: 1,086 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Just added your pretty 1794 vacation find on the Carr thread for comparison to Gallery Mint replica, 2024 Mint Medal, Carr Fantasy

    Thanks Andy !

    Lindy

    @MrEureka said:

    Unfortunately not for sale. 😢

  • jfriedm56jfriedm56 Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:
    That “scratch” through “LI” looks like it might have been on the planchet. Couldn’t say for sure without handling the piece.

    Looks like PMD.

  • CaptHenwayCaptHenway Posts: 32,093 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jfriedm56 said:

    @CaptHenway said:
    That “scratch” through “LI” looks like it might have been on the planchet. Couldn’t say for sure without handling the piece.

    Looks like PMD.

    As I say I cannot be sure without seeing the piece, but the line does not seem to "skip" when it drops down from the high part of the letter to the field, as a post-strike pin scratch tends to do. There were certainly plenty of other marks on this planchet prior to the strike.

    Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
  • jfriedm56jfriedm56 Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:

    @jfriedm56 said:

    @CaptHenway said:
    That “scratch” through “LI” looks like it might have been on the planchet. Couldn’t say for sure without handling the piece.

    Looks like PMD.

    As I say I cannot be sure without seeing the piece, but the line does not seem to "skip" when it drops down from the high part of the letter to the field, as a post-strike pin scratch tends to do. There were certainly plenty of other marks on this planchet prior to the strike.

    It does look as though all the parallel lines on the obverse could certainly be adjustment marks, but in referencing the line through the LIB, to me it has a slight upward curve to it. Maybe only in my brain that says to me a scratch. And I’m certainly no expert in this field, especially on a toned 230 year old dollar.

  • telephoto1telephoto1 Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CaptHenway said:

    @jfriedm56 said:

    @CaptHenway said:
    That “scratch” through “LI” looks like it might have been on the planchet. Couldn’t say for sure without handling the piece.

    Looks like PMD.

    As I say I cannot be sure without seeing the piece, but the line does not seem to "skip" when it drops down from the high part of the letter to the field, as a post-strike pin scratch tends to do. There were certainly plenty of other marks on this planchet prior to the strike.

    Clash possibly?


    RIP Mom- 1932-2012
  • CryptoCrypto Posts: 3,673 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I don’t think it’s been heavily cleaned if at all, the layers of age appear to be thick and sporadic. They look like silver that has been consistently exposed and unmolested for a long time to these eyes.

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