How many follow-ups and how long would you wait?

NeophyteNumismatist

I try to be a good communicator when doing business (and in general). I generally call shops with offers, as I think verbal communication in generally best. However, in many cases the decision maker is not in the office on when I make offers, and the shop asks me to email the person who can consider the offer.

Sometimes, shops reply quickly... other times, not at all. So, I follow-up. My rule is...follow-up twice from my original offer (3 communications total). I generally follow-up once after two days, and once after a week. I am trying to find a balance between being persistent and being a "pest".

What is your method for trying to find this balance. When do you decide to abandon the offer? How do you handle a dealer that comes back to you weeks after your offer (and you have already found something else)?

DocBenjamin

Phone calls are old school so probably call one is pest like. Texting is the preferred method.

Don't like it...but the world moves on.

jmlanzaf

I have neither time nor interest in multiple follow ups. If I really really want it, there might be one follow up. Usually none.

NeophyteNumismatist

Okay... so how long do you stay committed to your offer? I am a man of my word. I make solid offers, and I stand by them. But, I am not collecting things that I cannot find elsewhere and I am always looking. I want to give a dealer time to consider, but I do not want to have money tied up in pseudo-deals for prolonged periods of time.

Copperindian

One follow up after a few days & that’s it.

MFeld

@NeophyteNumismatist said:
Okay... so how long do you stay committed to your offer? I am a man of my word. I make solid offers, and I stand by them. But, I am not collecting things that I cannot find elsewhere and I am always looking. I want to give a dealer time to consider, but I do not want to have money tied up in pseudo-deals for prolonged periods of time.

When making an offer that’s not face-to-face, it’s best to let the other party know how long you’ll keep it open. Failure to do so can result in messy situations.

coinbuf

Unless you are looking for or have found a very unique, very low population coin, or an absolute rip, there will always be another one. No need for more than one follow up in most cases for me. And I have no problem telling a dealer that takes more than a couple of days to respond to pound sand, it's his/her loss that they couldn't be bothered to respond in a timely manner. The only time I give extra consideration is during a major show as the dealer may have been in attendance.

davewesen

Why not pay what they are asking?

PerryHall

@davewesen said:
Why not pay what they are asking?

Maybe they're asking more than the coin is worth. Virtually every dealer prices their coins with some room for negotiation.

knovak1976

One call or email and that’s it. The people I deal with seem very receptive, usually get back to me within 24 hours, and work with me (layaways) on the more expensive purchases of $4,000 or more. When I deal with dealers at coin shows I don’t waste their time either. I express what I am looking for, my budget and then move along. 😉 Cheers…karl

skier07

I prefer calling when a dealer has something I’m really interested in. If I can’t reach the dealer I’ll leave a message and that’s it. If the dealer calls back great. If they don’t it’s their loss. I have better things to do with my time than playing games.

I don’t like making email offers. Often times I never hear back from the dealer which leads me to believe they never read or got my offer. And I don’t make stupid offers.

BillJones

If a dealer doesn’t respond to me, I write them. off.

I see no need to beg someone to sell to you. If they can’t deliver decent service, why bother with them?

PeakRarities

I don’t think there’s any right answer, some dealers are very responsive and some aren’t.with one coin recently, it wasn’t until my third time calling that I got the shop owner on the phone, previously I had talked to his wife and he was supposed to call me back (never did). When I finally spoke with him, he was arrogant and seemed like he was doing me a favor by talking to me. Told me his pric (20% over cpg on a fairly common coin) was basically firm, and when I asked him about other types of coins that might come in, he essentially dismissed me and told me to let him know if I wanted to buy the first coin.

I will never do business with that dealer unless they happen to come across something that I must have, which is doubtful.

IMO, calling is your best bet though. When someone calls me, it lets me know they’re serious. Also, it humanizes the person and with some personal interaction I may be more likely to cut a deal. Emails are ok too, but remember that any other form of communication can easily be missed. We’re on a number of platforms, forums, Facebook, IG, emails, texts. With so many communication channels, it’s easy to miss a message or forget something I tell people all the time to call/text me directly if something is important or time sensitive, rather than send a message on instagram or the forum that’s liable to be missed.

M4Madness

@PerryHall said:
Virtually every dealer prices their coins with some room for negotiation.

I wish I could find them. All the dealers I've dealt with won't budge. The last coin I bought was just shy of $4K, and the dealer wouldn't drop a cent. The best they could do was to tell me to check back in a few months and see if they still had the coin in inventory, and if so, they may reduce the price then.

M4Madness

@PeakRarities said:
I don’t think there’s any right answer, some dealers are very responsive and some aren’t.with one coin recently, it wasn’t until my third time calling that I got the shop owner on the phone, previously I had talked to his wife and he was supposed to call me back (never did). When I finally spoke with him, he was arrogant and seemed like he was doing me a favor by talking to me. Told me his pric (20% over cpg on a fairly common coin) was basically firm, and when I asked him about other types of coins that might come in, he essentially dismissed me and told me to let him know if I wanted to buy the first coin.

I will never do business with that dealer unless they happen to come across something that I must have, which is doubtful.

Probably the guy you contacted on my behalf. If so, then it's another example of my failure to get a price reduction. LMAO!

PeakRarities

@M4Madness said:

@PeakRarities said:
I don’t think there’s any right answer, some dealers are very responsive and some aren’t.with one coin recently, it wasn’t until my third time calling that I got the shop owner on the phone, previously I had talked to his wife and he was supposed to call me back (never did). When I finally spoke with him, he was arrogant and seemed like he was doing me a favor by talking to me. Told me his pric (20% over cpg on a fairly common coin) was basically firm, and when I asked him about other types of coins that might come in, he essentially dismissed me and told me to let him know if I wanted to buy the first coin.

I will never do business with that dealer unless they happen to come across something that I must have, which is doubtful.

Probably the guy you contacted on my behalf. If so, then it's another example of my failure to get a price reduction. LMAO!

One of them, yes. Not the one you ended up getting, the other one in Georgia.

M4Madness

@PeakRarities said:
One of them, yes. Not the one you ended up getting, the other one in Georgia.

Yeah, I was confident that it was the one I didn't buy from.

NeophyteNumismatist

@davewesen said:
Why not pay what they are asking?

Generally...when I see something on eBay, I can do better if I cut the dealer a check directly.

M4Madness

@NeophyteNumismatist said:

@davewesen said:
Why not pay what they are asking?

Generally...when I see something on eBay, I can do better if I cut the dealer a check directly.

I do the same. If I see a coin on eBay, I try to find the seller's personal website to save eBay fees. Some have websites and some only have ebay stores. The ones with websites price cheaper outside of ebay. BUT, the last coin I bought had the exact same price on ebay as the dealer's website, and they wouldn't even knock the fees off for buying direct. Lol!

jmlanzaf

@NeophyteNumismatist said:
Okay... so how long do you stay committed to your offer? I am a man of my word. I make solid offers, and I stand by them. But, I am not collecting things that I cannot find elsewhere and I am always looking. I want to give a dealer time to consider, but I do not want to have money tied up in pseudo-deals for prolonged periods of time.

24 to 48 hours. No offer should stay open longer than that.

Cougar1978

If I called them with an offer and it wasn’t returned, I would just leave a message and move on. Perhaps the owner has not had it long enough to find out what he wants to retail it for. If it’s a roll perhaps some can be slabbed. Or your offer is lower than his target profit range for the item.

I had a guy at a show pushing me for a price on a really nice roll of BU Franklin halves (think he thought he was going to get an easy rip) I had just purchased from a walkup seller a few minutes before. I needed time to evaluate the deal, what could be slabbed, what could retail it all for for (cost plus). Max profit. I just told him “they are for a customer (me)” and put them out of sight in a bank bag. I did send about 50-60 pct of them in for grading (they did really well). In retailing both the slabbed (super fantastic return on cost) and raw pieces over time (nice positive return on them too), realized a really huge gain on my money (the cost of the roll).

IkesT

@Cougar1978

I'm getting confused - you keep changing your post. Which one of you was a dunce blowing in the wind?

Also, what is a dunce blowing in the wind?

jmlanzaf

@M4Madness said:

@NeophyteNumismatist said:

@davewesen said:
Why not pay what they are asking?

Generally...when I see something on eBay, I can do better if I cut the dealer a check directly.

I do the same. If I see a coin on eBay, I try to find the seller's personal website to save eBay fees. Some have websites and some only have ebay stores. The ones with websites price cheaper outside of ebay. BUT, the last coin I bought had the exact same price on ebay as the dealer's website, and they wouldn't even knock the fees off for buying direct. Lol!

The dealer likely only saves 5% or so in fees if you pay with a CC or PayPal. 8% is you send a check, which are a nuisance and don't have the same seller protections. Personally, i do not encourage people to buy direct from me. They always want 100% or even 200% of any fees i save and i end up with slightly more risk for the same or less money.

alaura22

@M4Madness said:

@NeophyteNumismatist said:

@davewesen said:
Why not pay what they are asking?

Generally...when I see something on eBay, I can do better if I cut the dealer a check directly.

I do the same. If I see a coin on eBay, I try to find the seller's personal website to save eBay fees. Some have websites and some only have ebay stores. The ones with websites price cheaper outside of ebay. BUT, the last coin I bought had the exact same price on ebay as the dealer's website, and they wouldn't even knock the fees off for buying direct. Lol!

That happened to me just last week, I went to their website and the coin was the same price.
I then left them a messaage and they told me the price was the same. I then replyed to them that I would buy the coin through ebay and have him eat the fee's unless he reduxded the price,
Never heard back for them, AND never bought the coin!

MFeld

@alaura22 said:

@M4Madness said:

@NeophyteNumismatist said:

@davewesen said:
Why not pay what they are asking?

Generally...when I see something on eBay, I can do better if I cut the dealer a check directly.

I do the same. If I see a coin on eBay, I try to find the seller's personal website to save eBay fees. Some have websites and some only have ebay stores. The ones with websites price cheaper outside of ebay. BUT, the last coin I bought had the exact same price on ebay as the dealer's website, and they wouldn't even knock the fees off for buying direct. Lol!

That happened to me just last week, I went to their website and the coin was the same price.
I then left them a messaage and they told me the price was the same. I then replyed to them that I would buy the coin through ebay and have him eat the fee's unless he reduxded the price,
Never heard back for them, AND never bought the coin!

So you lied to him and didn’t end up with the coin - got it.😉

PeakRarities

@jmlanzaf said:

@M4Madness said:

@NeophyteNumismatist said:

@davewesen said:
Why not pay what they are asking?

Generally...when I see something on eBay, I can do better if I cut the dealer a check directly.

I do the same. If I see a coin on eBay, I try to find the seller's personal website to save eBay fees. Some have websites and some only have ebay stores. The ones with websites price cheaper outside of ebay. BUT, the last coin I bought had the exact same price on ebay as the dealer's website, and they wouldn't even knock the fees off for buying direct. Lol!

The dealer likely only saves 5% or so in fees if you pay with a CC or PayPal. 8% is you send a check, which are a nuisance and don't have the same sheet protections. Personally, i do not encourage people to buy direct from me. They always want 100% or even 200% of any fees i save and i end up with slightly more risk for the same or less money.

See, this is where you and I just have fundamentally different viewpoints. E-checks are not a nuisance at all, and neither is Zelle. I make every effort to encourage direct sales by marking up my ebay prices higher than my website prices, and its not difficult to find your way to my website from my ebay page. Why would I want to give ebay 9% for doing nothing other than letting me use their infrastructure? I have to do all of the work to try to make 9% in the first place, so I essentially have to double the markup if I want to sell there.

When the average coin is in the 3k-5k range, it seems like Ebay is getting way too much for taking none of the risk. They have the cap on 9% fee at $4,000 before it goes to 2.35%, and in my opinion that should be set at $1,000 or $2,000. All of the "protections" in place are for the buyer, and it seems like my listings barely get any views unless i pay their extortion promotion fees that start at a minimum of 2%, on top of the 9%. I suppose it's just a matter of perception, but with a lower value higher margin coin I guess it wouldn’t sting as much.

Cougar1978

@IkesT said:
@Cougar1978

I'm getting confused - you keep changing your post. Which one of you was a dunce blowing in the wind?

Also, what is a dunce blowing in the wind?

Your not making any sense lol. Do you even having anything of substance to offer. Suggestion for you - go to utube and look at some of the stuff there.

IkesT

@Cougar1978 said:

@IkesT said:
@Cougar1978

I'm getting confused - you keep changing your post. Which one of you was a dunce blowing in the wind?

Also, what is a dunce blowing in the wind?

Your not making any sense lol. Do you even having anything of substance to offer. Suggestion for you - go to utube and look at some of the stuff there.

You wrote it; I just asked about it. What is a "dunce blowing in the wind" and why did you delete it?

jmlanzaf

@PeakRarities said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@M4Madness said:

@NeophyteNumismatist said:

@davewesen said:
Why not pay what they are asking?

Generally...when I see something on eBay, I can do better if I cut the dealer a check directly.

I do the same. If I see a coin on eBay, I try to find the seller's personal website to save eBay fees. Some have websites and some only have ebay stores. The ones with websites price cheaper outside of ebay. BUT, the last coin I bought had the exact same price on ebay as the dealer's website, and they wouldn't even knock the fees off for buying direct. Lol!

The dealer likely only saves 5% or so in fees if you pay with a CC or PayPal. 8% is you send a check, which are a nuisance and don't have the same sheet protections. Personally, i do not encourage people to buy direct from me. They always want 100% or even 200% of any fees i save and i end up with slightly more risk for the same or less money.

See, this is where you and I just have fundamentally different viewpoints. E-checks are not a nuisance at all, and neither is Zelle. I make every effort to encourage direct sales by marking up my ebay prices higher than my website prices, and its not difficult to find your way to my website from my ebay page. Why would I want to give ebay 9% for doing nothing other than letting me use their infrastructure? I have to do all of the work to try to make 9% in the first place, so I essentially have to double the markup if I want to sell there.

When the average coin is in the 3k-5k range, it seems like Ebay is getting way too much for taking none of the risk. They have the cap on 9% fee at $4,000 before it goes to 2.35%, and in my opinion that should be set at $1,000 or $2,000. All of the "protections" in place are for the buyer, and it seems like my listings barely get any views unless i pay their extortion promotion fees that start at a minimum of 2%, on top of the 9%. I suppose it's just a matter of perception, but with a lower value higher margin coin I guess it wouldn’t sting as much.

E-checks and Zelle are fine and don't allow charge backs. I was talking more about actual paper checks.

You are free to not use ebay at all. You do, however. Why? Because of eyeballs. So, while you complain about the costs, you actual value the service. You just don't want to pay for it. And, actually, you don't even want the customer to pay for it.

In general, I don't care whether the sale is direct or through eBay. However, as i pointed out, the problem is that everyone wants a 10 to 20% discount to save me 5 to 9% in PayPal fees. There is no real advantage to me in doing that, especially since I don't mind paying ebay for their most excellent and reasonably priced service.

A couple weeks ago, a customer offered to buy a $20,000 comic off ebay and "PayPal immediately" and "save you the ebay fees" if I gave him a 15% discount. So, as usual, I had to explain to him that the total ebay fees on a $20,000 comic are 3.6%, almost the same as the PayPal fees and so I was simply losing 15% (along with the seller protections".

For everyone who dislikes ebay, it's easy. Don't use ebay. Dare you. 😉

jmlanzaf

@alaura22 said:

@M4Madness said:

@NeophyteNumismatist said:

@davewesen said:
Why not pay what they are asking?

Generally...when I see something on eBay, I can do better if I cut the dealer a check directly.

I do the same. If I see a coin on eBay, I try to find the seller's personal website to save eBay fees. Some have websites and some only have ebay stores. The ones with websites price cheaper outside of ebay. BUT, the last coin I bought had the exact same price on ebay as the dealer's website, and they wouldn't even knock the fees off for buying direct. Lol!

That happened to me just last week, I went to their website and the coin was the same price.
I then left them a messaage and they told me the price was the same. I then replyed to them that I would buy the coin through ebay and have him eat the fee's unless he reduxded the price,
Never heard back for them, AND never bought the coin!

Did it ever dawn on you that there are also site costs to be covered? Maybe, like me, he doesn't mind paying 8% to ebay. It actually used to cost me more when I had my own website because the fixed costs were spread over a lower sales volume.

Why don't you now threaten to buy the coin on eBay and then force a return on him if he doesn't give you a 50% discount? How dare he not fine you a piece of the 5 to 8% in ebay fees? 😈

jmlanzaf

@MFeld said:

@alaura22 said:

@M4Madness said:

@NeophyteNumismatist said:

@davewesen said:
Why not pay what they are asking?

Generally...when I see something on eBay, I can do better if I cut the dealer a check directly.

I do the same. If I see a coin on eBay, I try to find the seller's personal website to save eBay fees. Some have websites and some only have ebay stores. The ones with websites price cheaper outside of ebay. BUT, the last coin I bought had the exact same price on ebay as the dealer's website, and they wouldn't even knock the fees off for buying direct. Lol!

That happened to me just last week, I went to their website and the coin was the same price.
I then left them a messaage and they told me the price was the same. I then replyed to them that I would buy the coin through ebay and have him eat the fee's unless he reduxded the price,
Never heard back for them, AND never bought the coin!

So you lied to him and didn’t end up with the coin - got it.😉

Actually, he attempted to extort him and then didn't end up with the coin....

seatedlib3991

LOL @jmlanzaf . I guess challenge accepted. I have never purchased a coin off of E-Bay . Ever.
Yet life goes on. Glad it works for you though. James

oih82w8

Two attempts is enough for me, on both sides of the table, buying or selling. I find that texts or emails work best. The ebay fees are getting ridiculous, but I am not a big enough fish for a store on ebay and end up with the 13.25% and order fee (30 to 40 cents) on my items for sale.

lermish

@IkesT said:

@Cougar1978 said:

@IkesT said:
@Cougar1978

I'm getting confused - you keep changing your post. Which one of you was a dunce blowing in the wind?

Also, what is a dunce blowing in the wind?

Your not making any sense lol. Do you even having anything of substance to offer. Suggestion for you - go to utube and look at some of the stuff there.

You wrote it; I just asked about it. What is a "dunce blowing in the wind" and why did you delete it?

He heard Monique say the phrase and liked it. Or, wait, was it Frencesca? I get them confused all the time.

jmlanzaf

@lermish said:

@IkesT said:

@Cougar1978 said:

@IkesT said:
@Cougar1978

I'm getting confused - you keep changing your post. Which one of you was a dunce blowing in the wind?

Also, what is a dunce blowing in the wind?

Your not making any sense lol. Do you even having anything of substance to offer. Suggestion for you - go to utube and look at some of the stuff there.

You wrote it; I just asked about it. What is a "dunce blowing in the wind" and why did you delete it?

He heard Monique say the phrase and liked it. Or, wait, was it Frencesca? I get them confused all the time.

You don't want to mess with either one.

davewesen

If 'ALL' dealers add room for fudge or negotiations, how much is it? 5%, 10%, 20% ... or does it depend on the value of the item?

jesbroken

I used to make offers for coins on Collectors Corner and after 5 or 6 I gave up. Many sellers on that platform do not check their emails, the website or even monitor phone calls, so weeks might go by before replying. If you do happen to get someone on the phone its usually so and so is at a show, preparing for a show or on the way to or from a show and will get back to you as soon as they can.
I'm sorry if this offends sellers who are truly that busy, but if so, then either don't list coins on that platform or place a person in charge of it. Many don't even list photos, but say contact for photos.
I make many offers on Ebay and can remember a couple who never answered or was slow in answering.
Most answer promply, even on weekends, although occasionally it takes till Monday. I know most tend to beat up on Ebay, but where else can you get the audience numbers for your coins? And I have no problem with their seller or buyer support as I have received both.
Sorry, Neo, for the small rant, in answer to your question, I would say 2 repeat calls max and after making offer to a responsible agent, then offer it last 48 hours max. JMO
Jim

SmEagle1795

I've been trying to get a response from a dealer for months: first contacting them through their website, then by email from two different email addresses. I was ready to give up but found their phone number and sent them a message on Whatsapp which finally got to them: they apparently had replied to me but the email never went through... (they even thought there were three different people interested in the same coin).

So, if you aren't receiving a response, maybe technology is to blame.

bigjpst

@davewesen said:
If 'ALL' dealers add room for fudge or negotiations, how much is it? 5%, 10%, 20% ... or does it depend on the value of the item?

I don't know about all dealers, but for me it's different for every coin. But what I typically do is try and list on my website for what my minimum selling price is, and then mark it up for ebay. Sometimes that is just the difference in the ebay fee, sometimes more. It depends on where I believe retail price is and what I paid for the coin.

I've been selling on ebay and using my website since about 2012. I always felt that having a website was important and my site is relatively cheap to maintain. It Yes the fee for me to sell there is less by about 6% unless someone contacts me and wants to pay by check. But the fixed cost of running the site eats up a decent percentage because of the much lower sales amounts. This year I had my highest volume of sales directly from my website, and it was about 6% of my total sales for the year. The rest being a mix of mostly ebay, whatnot and wholesale at shows.

MFeld

@davewesen said:
If 'ALL' dealers add room for fudge or negotiations, how much is it? 5%, 10%, 20% ... or does it depend on the value of the item?

Not all dealers do that. But for those who do, obviously, it depends on the dealer and/or the coin.

JCH22

@jmlanzaf said:

Actually, he attempted to extort him and then didn't end up with the coin....

Don't defend the "shake down" approach in any way, but "extortion" is an excessively strong, and incorrect, accusation to make.

CRHer700

@Cougar1978 said:

@IkesT said:
@Cougar1978

I'm getting confused - you keep changing your post. Which one of you was a dunce blowing in the wind?

Also, what is a dunce blowing in the wind?

Your not making any sense lol. Do you even having anything of substance to offer. Suggestion for you - go to utube and look at some of the stuff there.

I love utube.

jmlanzaf

@davewesen said:
If 'ALL' dealers add room for fudge or negotiations, how much is it? 5%, 10%, 20% ... or does it depend on the value of the item?

It is not "all" and it depends on numerous factors: cost of goods, business costs, staleness of the inventory, etc.

jmlanzaf

@JCH22 said:

@jmlanzaf said:

Actually, he attempted to extort him and then didn't end up with the coin....

Don't defend the "shake down" approach in any way, but "extortion" is an excessively strong, and incorrect, accusation to make.

I think it's spot on: give me a discount or I'll make you pay ebay fees. It reads like a threat.

JCH22

@jmlanzaf said:

Take my price or else you will continue to own your coin, and pay the fees you already agreed to pay a third party, is not a threat. It is not extortion to tell someone you will leave them exactly where they are if your offer is refused.
No argument it is heavy handed and crude tactic, a sharp practice etc.

jmlanzaf

@JCH22 said:

@jmlanzaf said:

Take my price or else you will continue to own your coin, and pay the fees you already agreed to pay a third party, is not a threat. It is not extortion to tell someone you will leave them exactly where they are if your offer is refused.
No argument it is heavy handed and crude tactic, a sharp practice etc.

Agree to disagree. It reads threatening to me. While it is, as you point out, a pretty mild threat, you don't have to take Liam Neeson's family for it to be a threat.

I agree that, if you rephrase it, it doesn't sound at all threatening: "if you don't have an off ebay discount, I'll just buy it on ebay" isn't threatening. But that's not how it was phrased.

[If I were the seller, I would have blocked the buyer immediately.]

PeakRarities

@jmlanzaf said:

@PeakRarities said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@M4Madness said:

@NeophyteNumismatist said:

@davewesen said:
Why not pay what they are asking?

Generally...when I see something on eBay, I can do better if I cut the dealer a check directly.

I do the same. If I see a coin on eBay, I try to find the seller's personal website to save eBay fees. Some have websites and some only have ebay stores. The ones with websites price cheaper outside of ebay. BUT, the last coin I bought had the exact same price on ebay as the dealer's website, and they wouldn't even knock the fees off for buying direct. Lol!

The dealer likely only saves 5% or so in fees if you pay with a CC or PayPal. 8% is you send a check, which are a nuisance and don't have the same sheet protections. Personally, i do not encourage people to buy direct from me. They always want 100% or even 200% of any fees i save and i end up with slightly more risk for the same or less money.

See, this is where you and I just have fundamentally different viewpoints. E-checks are not a nuisance at all, and neither is Zelle. I make every effort to encourage direct sales by marking up my ebay prices higher than my website prices, and its not difficult to find your way to my website from my ebay page. Why would I want to give ebay 9% for doing nothing other than letting me use their infrastructure? I have to do all of the work to try to make 9% in the first place, so I essentially have to double the markup if I want to sell there.

When the average coin is in the 3k-5k range, it seems like Ebay is getting way too much for taking none of the risk. They have the cap on 9% fee at $4,000 before it goes to 2.35%, and in my opinion that should be set at $1,000 or $2,000. All of the "protections" in place are for the buyer, and it seems like my listings barely get any views unless i pay their extortion promotion fees that start at a minimum of 2%, on top of the 9%. I suppose it's just a matter of perception, but with a lower value higher margin coin I guess it wouldn’t sting as much.

E-checks and Zelle are fine and don't allow charge backs. I was talking more about actual paper checks.

You are free to not use ebay at all. You do, however. Why? Because of eyeballs. So, while you complain about the costs, you actual value the service. You just don't want to pay for it. And, actually, you don't even want the customer to pay for it.

In general, I don't care whether the sale is direct or through eBay. However, as i pointed out, the problem is that everyone wants a 10 to 20% discount to save me 5 to 9% in PayPal fees. There is no real advantage to me in doing that, especially since I don't mind paying ebay for their most excellent and reasonably priced service.

A couple weeks ago, a customer offered to buy a $20,000 comic off ebay and "PayPal immediately" and "save you the ebay fees" if I gave him a 15% discount. So, as usual, I had to explain to him that the total ebay fees on a $20,000 comic are 3.6%, almost the same as the PayPal fees and so I was simply losing 15% (along with the seller protections".

For everyone who dislikes ebay, it's easy. Don't use ebay. Dare you. 😉

You think I have an attachment to ebay? I use it becuase its extra visibility, but if I had any incentive to not use it, I would close my account in a heartbeat.

Eyeballs? What eyeballs, I've had listings up for weeks that have 22 views. I seldom have an item sell there, anyone who pays attention ends up on my website. Had a sale last week, I was pleased to see that a fairly generic double eagle sold for $3,500. Buyer had limited, but positive feedback. His account shows that hes a jeweler/precious metals dealer in miami.

The coin sold for $3,500 but after fees I netted about $3,100. It's on my website for $3,250. I felt bad that he paid the inflated price, so as a gesture of goodwill i threw in a one of the Peak Rarities T shirts I recently had made, and hand wrote a little note thanking him for his business.

Shupped the coin priority mail, and a return was initiated the day it was delivered. His reason? "Coin does not match item description or photos"...🤦‍♂️

Mind you, this is a really nice 64+ that sits closer to the 65 line. He didn't like the "tarnish" that wasn't shown in the photos (just a bit of stacking table dirt frequently seen on gold). Funny thing is, my pictures of this coin were EXCELLENT and did in fact show the dirt on the high points. The buyer obviously has little experience with gold coins and doesnt realize that most original coins have some dirt on the high points. I'm curious to see if he returns the shirt, because if he doesn't I'll be out the $18 or so it cost me for that, plus the $12 it cost me for Priority mail with signature. Some may want to block this one to avoid a future headache...

The listing-https://www.ebay.com/itm/156253574068

jmlanzaf

@PeakRarities said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@PeakRarities said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@M4Madness said:

@NeophyteNumismatist said:

@davewesen said:
Why not pay what they are asking?

Generally...when I see something on eBay, I can do better if I cut the dealer a check directly.

I do the same. If I see a coin on eBay, I try to find the seller's personal website to save eBay fees. Some have websites and some only have ebay stores. The ones with websites price cheaper outside of ebay. BUT, the last coin I bought had the exact same price on ebay as the dealer's website, and they wouldn't even knock the fees off for buying direct. Lol!

The dealer likely only saves 5% or so in fees if you pay with a CC or PayPal. 8% is you send a check, which are a nuisance and don't have the same sheet protections. Personally, i do not encourage people to buy direct from me. They always want 100% or even 200% of any fees i save and i end up with slightly more risk for the same or less money.

See, this is where you and I just have fundamentally different viewpoints. E-checks are not a nuisance at all, and neither is Zelle. I make every effort to encourage direct sales by marking up my ebay prices higher than my website prices, and its not difficult to find your way to my website from my ebay page. Why would I want to give ebay 9% for doing nothing other than letting me use their infrastructure? I have to do all of the work to try to make 9% in the first place, so I essentially have to double the markup if I want to sell there.

When the average coin is in the 3k-5k range, it seems like Ebay is getting way too much for taking none of the risk. They have the cap on 9% fee at $4,000 before it goes to 2.35%, and in my opinion that should be set at $1,000 or $2,000. All of the "protections" in place are for the buyer, and it seems like my listings barely get any views unless i pay their extortion promotion fees that start at a minimum of 2%, on top of the 9%. I suppose it's just a matter of perception, but with a lower value higher margin coin I guess it wouldn’t sting as much.

E-checks and Zelle are fine and don't allow charge backs. I was talking more about actual paper checks.

You are free to not use ebay at all. You do, however. Why? Because of eyeballs. So, while you complain about the costs, you actual value the service. You just don't want to pay for it. And, actually, you don't even want the customer to pay for it.

In general, I don't care whether the sale is direct or through eBay. However, as i pointed out, the problem is that everyone wants a 10 to 20% discount to save me 5 to 9% in PayPal fees. There is no real advantage to me in doing that, especially since I don't mind paying ebay for their most excellent and reasonably priced service.

A couple weeks ago, a customer offered to buy a $20,000 comic off ebay and "PayPal immediately" and "save you the ebay fees" if I gave him a 15% discount. So, as usual, I had to explain to him that the total ebay fees on a $20,000 comic are 3.6%, almost the same as the PayPal fees and so I was simply losing 15% (along with the seller protections".

For everyone who dislikes ebay, it's easy. Don't use ebay. Dare you. 😉

You think I have an attachment to ebay? I use it becuase its extra visibility, but if I had any incentive to not use it, I would close my account in a heartbeat.

Eyeballs? What eyeballs, I've had listings up for weeks that have 22 views. I seldom have an item sell there, anyone who pays attention ends up on my website. Had a sale last week, I was pleased to see that a fairly generic double eagle sold for $3,500. Buyer had limited, but positive feedback. His account shows that hes a jeweler/precious metals dealer in miami.

The coin sold for $3,500 but after fees I netted about $3,100. It's on my website for $3,250. I felt bad that he paid the inflated price, so as a gesture of goodwill i threw in a one of the Peak Rarities T shirts I recently had made, and hand wrote a little note thanking him for his business.

Shupped the coin priority mail, and a return was initiated the day it was delivered. His reason? "Coin does not match item description or photos"...🤦‍♂️

Mind you, this is a really nice 64+ that sits closer to the 65 line. He didn't like the "tarnish" that wasn't shown in the photos (just a bit of stacking table dirt frequently seen on gold). Funny thing is, my pictures of this coin were EXCELLENT and did in fact show the dirt on the high points. The buyer obviously has little experience with gold coins and doesnt realize that most original coins have some dirt on the high points. I'm curious to see if he returns the shirt, because if he doesn't I'll be out the $18 or so it cost me for that, plus the $12 it cost me for Priority mail with signature. Some may want to block this one to avoid a future headache...

The listing-https://www.ebay.com/itm/156253574068

And through your website, unless you only take zelle, he would initiate a charge back and the CC company often won't even bother to track the return.

davewesen

I often wonder what happens with an expensive coin return that does not make it. The eBay printed labels for return do not show insurance or anything ...

PeakRarities

@jmlanzaf said:

@PeakRarities said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@PeakRarities said:

@jmlanzaf said:

@M4Madness said:

@NeophyteNumismatist said:

@davewesen said:
Why not pay what they are asking?

Generally...when I see something on eBay, I can do better if I cut the dealer a check directly.

I do the same. If I see a coin on eBay, I try to find the seller's personal website to save eBay fees. Some have websites and some only have ebay stores. The ones with websites price cheaper outside of ebay. BUT, the last coin I bought had the exact same price on ebay as the dealer's website, and they wouldn't even knock the fees off for buying direct. Lol!

The dealer likely only saves 5% or so in fees if you pay with a CC or PayPal. 8% is you send a check, which are a nuisance and don't have the same sheet protections. Personally, i do not encourage people to buy direct from me. They always want 100% or even 200% of any fees i save and i end up with slightly more risk for the same or less money.

See, this is where you and I just have fundamentally different viewpoints. E-checks are not a nuisance at all, and neither is Zelle. I make every effort to encourage direct sales by marking up my ebay prices higher than my website prices, and its not difficult to find your way to my website from my ebay page. Why would I want to give ebay 9% for doing nothing other than letting me use their infrastructure? I have to do all of the work to try to make 9% in the first place, so I essentially have to double the markup if I want to sell there.

When the average coin is in the 3k-5k range, it seems like Ebay is getting way too much for taking none of the risk. They have the cap on 9% fee at $4,000 before it goes to 2.35%, and in my opinion that should be set at $1,000 or $2,000. All of the "protections" in place are for the buyer, and it seems like my listings barely get any views unless i pay their extortion promotion fees that start at a minimum of 2%, on top of the 9%. I suppose it's just a matter of perception, but with a lower value higher margin coin I guess it wouldn’t sting as much.

E-checks and Zelle are fine and don't allow charge backs. I was talking more about actual paper checks.

You are free to not use ebay at all. You do, however. Why? Because of eyeballs. So, while you complain about the costs, you actual value the service. You just don't want to pay for it. And, actually, you don't even want the customer to pay for it.

In general, I don't care whether the sale is direct or through eBay. However, as i pointed out, the problem is that everyone wants a 10 to 20% discount to save me 5 to 9% in PayPal fees. There is no real advantage to me in doing that, especially since I don't mind paying ebay for their most excellent and reasonably priced service.

A couple weeks ago, a customer offered to buy a $20,000 comic off ebay and "PayPal immediately" and "save you the ebay fees" if I gave him a 15% discount. So, as usual, I had to explain to him that the total ebay fees on a $20,000 comic are 3.6%, almost the same as the PayPal fees and so I was simply losing 15% (along with the seller protections".

For everyone who dislikes ebay, it's easy. Don't use ebay. Dare you. 😉

You think I have an attachment to ebay? I use it becuase its extra visibility, but if I had any incentive to not use it, I would close my account in a heartbeat.

Eyeballs? What eyeballs, I've had listings up for weeks that have 22 views. I seldom have an item sell there, anyone who pays attention ends up on my website. Had a sale last week, I was pleased to see that a fairly generic double eagle sold for $3,500. Buyer had limited, but positive feedback. His account shows that hes a jeweler/precious metals dealer in miami.

The coin sold for $3,500 but after fees I netted about $3,100. It's on my website for $3,250. I felt bad that he paid the inflated price, so as a gesture of goodwill i threw in a one of the Peak Rarities T shirts I recently had made, and hand wrote a little note thanking him for his business.

Shupped the coin priority mail, and a return was initiated the day it was delivered. His reason? "Coin does not match item description or photos"...🤦‍♂️

Mind you, this is a really nice 64+ that sits closer to the 65 line. He didn't like the "tarnish" that wasn't shown in the photos (just a bit of stacking table dirt frequently seen on gold). Funny thing is, my pictures of this coin were EXCELLENT and did in fact show the dirt on the high points. The buyer obviously has little experience with gold coins and doesnt realize that most original coins have some dirt on the high points. I'm curious to see if he returns the shirt, because if he doesn't I'll be out the $18 or so it cost me for that, plus the $12 it cost me for Priority mail with signature. Some may want to block this one to avoid a future headache...

The listing-https://www.ebay.com/itm/156253574068

And through your website, unless you only take zelle, he would initiate a charge back and the CC company often won't even bother to track the return.

Right, but perhaps he wouldn’t have returned it if he paid 3250 instead of 3500, and I would have netted about $75 more.

PeakRarities

And @jmlanzaf, this is about my 10th ebay order total, and 6th numismatic slabbed coin. Out of the 6, 2 of them were returns. The other one was a 94-s DE in 64cac, a $6,000 sale. The lysting had a myriad of pictures from every angle, and I even included an HD VIDEO of the coin under a light. The reson selected on ebay was "Ordered by mistake", but when i got the coin back there was a note that said it had "too many scratches". Again, someone with no gold experience who doesnt understand that these coins pick up hairlines, and an MS64 is not going to be devoid of any hits/hairlines.

Do you think that If you were in my position, you'd understand why I hold this position? Between those two listings, Ebay's cut would have been more than $800. For expensive numismatic coins, their FVF should be capped at like $100 or $200 at the most, what did they do to earn over $800?