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How many follow-ups and how long would you wait?

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  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 33,927 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PeakRarities said:
    And @jmlanzaf, this is about my 10th ebay order total, and 6th numismatic slabbed coin. Out of the 6, 2 of them were returns. The other one was a 94-s DE in 64cac, a $6,000 sale. The lysting had a myriad of pictures from every angle, and I even included an HD VIDEO of the coin under a light. The reson selected on ebay was "Ordered by mistake", but when i got the coin back there was a note that said it had "too many scratches". Again, someone with no gold experience who doesnt understand that these coins pick up hairlines, and an MS64 is not going to be devoid of any hits/hairlines.

    Do you think that If you were in my position, you'd understand why I hold this position? Between those two listings, Ebay's cut would have been more than $800. For expensive numismatic coins, their FVF should be capped at like $100 or $200 at the most, what did they do to earn over $800?

    Which position?

    I have no problem with people refusing to use ebay. There are many things that I would never sell on ebay. But you seem to be claiming they have no utility as the same time that you insist on using them.

    I would love if they were cheaper. They are what they are.

    The fees on a $6000 coin are $377 (basic store and TRS). Payment processing alone is about $200. That really is, in my opinion, pretty reasonable given that no one would ever find the coin on my private website.

  • LiquidatedLiquidated Posts: 197 ✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2024 10:01AM

    Years ago sold off 90% of my collection. 15 years prior actively bought and sold coins on eBay. One reason it took so long to sell off was the dreaded headaches of eBay buyers. I am grateful for Great Collections.

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 33,927 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PeakRarities said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @PeakRarities said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @PeakRarities said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @M4Madness said:

    @NeophyteNumismatist said:

    @davewesen said:
    Why not pay what they are asking?

    Generally...when I see something on eBay, I can do better if I cut the dealer a check directly.

    I do the same. If I see a coin on eBay, I try to find the seller's personal website to save eBay fees. Some have websites and some only have ebay stores. The ones with websites price cheaper outside of ebay. BUT, the last coin I bought had the exact same price on ebay as the dealer's website, and they wouldn't even knock the fees off for buying direct. Lol!

    The dealer likely only saves 5% or so in fees if you pay with a CC or PayPal. 8% is you send a check, which are a nuisance and don't have the same sheet protections. Personally, i do not encourage people to buy direct from me. They always want 100% or even 200% of any fees i save and i end up with slightly more risk for the same or less money.

    See, this is where you and I just have fundamentally different viewpoints. E-checks are not a nuisance at all, and neither is Zelle. I make every effort to encourage direct sales by marking up my ebay prices higher than my website prices, and its not difficult to find your way to my website from my ebay page. Why would I want to give ebay 9% for doing nothing other than letting me use their infrastructure? I have to do all of the work to try to make 9% in the first place, so I essentially have to double the markup if I want to sell there.

    When the average coin is in the 3k-5k range, it seems like Ebay is getting way too much for taking none of the risk. They have the cap on 9% fee at $4,000 before it goes to 2.35%, and in my opinion that should be set at $1,000 or $2,000. All of the "protections" in place are for the buyer, and it seems like my listings barely get any views unless i pay their extortion promotion fees that start at a minimum of 2%, on top of the 9%. I suppose it's just a matter of perception, but with a lower value higher margin coin I guess it wouldn’t sting as much.

    E-checks and Zelle are fine and don't allow charge backs. I was talking more about actual paper checks.

    You are free to not use ebay at all. You do, however. Why? Because of eyeballs. So, while you complain about the costs, you actual value the service. You just don't want to pay for it. And, actually, you don't even want the customer to pay for it.

    In general, I don't care whether the sale is direct or through eBay. However, as i pointed out, the problem is that everyone wants a 10 to 20% discount to save me 5 to 9% in PayPal fees. There is no real advantage to me in doing that, especially since I don't mind paying ebay for their most excellent and reasonably priced service.

    A couple weeks ago, a customer offered to buy a $20,000 comic off ebay and "PayPal immediately" and "save you the ebay fees" if I gave him a 15% discount. So, as usual, I had to explain to him that the total ebay fees on a $20,000 comic are 3.6%, almost the same as the PayPal fees and so I was simply losing 15% (along with the seller protections".

    For everyone who dislikes ebay, it's easy. Don't use ebay. Dare you. 😉

    You think I have an attachment to ebay? I use it becuase its extra visibility, but if I had any incentive to not use it, I would close my account in a heartbeat.

    Eyeballs? What eyeballs, I've had listings up for weeks that have 22 views. I seldom have an item sell there, anyone who pays attention ends up on my website. Had a sale last week, I was pleased to see that a fairly generic double eagle sold for $3,500. Buyer had limited, but positive feedback. His account shows that hes a jeweler/precious metals dealer in miami.

    The coin sold for $3,500 but after fees I netted about $3,100. It's on my website for $3,250. I felt bad that he paid the inflated price, so as a gesture of goodwill i threw in a one of the Peak Rarities T shirts I recently had made, and hand wrote a little note thanking him for his business.

    Shupped the coin priority mail, and a return was initiated the day it was delivered. His reason? "Coin does not match item description or photos"...🤦‍♂️

    Mind you, this is a really nice 64+ that sits closer to the 65 line. He didn't like the "tarnish" that wasn't shown in the photos (just a bit of stacking table dirt frequently seen on gold). Funny thing is, my pictures of this coin were EXCELLENT and did in fact show the dirt on the high points. The buyer obviously has little experience with gold coins and doesnt realize that most original coins have some dirt on the high points. I'm curious to see if he returns the shirt, because if he doesn't I'll be out the $18 or so it cost me for that, plus the $12 it cost me for Priority mail with signature. Some may want to block this one to avoid a future headache...



    The listing-https://www.ebay.com/itm/156253574068

    And through your website, unless you only take zelle, he would initiate a charge back and the CC company often won't even bother to track the return.

    Right, but perhaps he wouldn’t have returned it if he paid 3250 instead of 3500, and I would have netted about $75 more.

    I doubt that he hated the coin but would keep it for an 8% discount.

  • PeakRaritiesPeakRarities Posts: 3,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @PeakRarities said:
    And @jmlanzaf, this is about my 10th ebay order total, and 6th numismatic slabbed coin. Out of the 6, 2 of them were returns. The other one was a 94-s DE in 64cac, a $6,000 sale. The lysting had a myriad of pictures from every angle, and I even included an HD VIDEO of the coin under a light. The reson selected on ebay was "Ordered by mistake", but when i got the coin back there was a note that said it had "too many scratches". Again, someone with no gold experience who doesnt understand that these coins pick up hairlines, and an MS64 is not going to be devoid of any hits/hairlines.

    Do you think that If you were in my position, you'd understand why I hold this position? Between those two listings, Ebay's cut would have been more than $800. For expensive numismatic coins, their FVF should be capped at like $100 or $200 at the most, what did they do to earn over $800?

    Which position?

    I have no problem with people refusing to use ebay. There are many things that I would never sell on ebay. But you seem to be claiming they have no utility as the same time that you insist on using them.

    I would love if they were cheaper. They are what they are.

    The fees on a $6000 coin are $377 (basic store and TRS). Payment processing alone is about $200. That really is, in my opinion, pretty reasonable given that no one would ever find the coin on my private website.

    The position that Ebay fees are not a a good value for the sertvice provided.

    Ebay fees on that order were just over $400, but that includes the $11 priority shipping. Payment processing for any credit card other than AMEX would be $174.

    "That really is, in my opinion, pretty reasonable given that no one would ever find the coin on my private website."

    Why do you assume that? That's only because you prefer to lean on Ebay's user base, but if you put effort into marketing and advertising, you could have just as much traffic on your own accord.

    Founder- Peak Rarities
    Website
    Instagram
    Facebook

  • PeakRaritiesPeakRarities Posts: 3,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @PeakRarities said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @PeakRarities said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @PeakRarities said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @M4Madness said:

    @NeophyteNumismatist said:

    @davewesen said:
    Why not pay what they are asking?

    Generally...when I see something on eBay, I can do better if I cut the dealer a check directly.

    I do the same. If I see a coin on eBay, I try to find the seller's personal website to save eBay fees. Some have websites and some only have ebay stores. The ones with websites price cheaper outside of ebay. BUT, the last coin I bought had the exact same price on ebay as the dealer's website, and they wouldn't even knock the fees off for buying direct. Lol!

    The dealer likely only saves 5% or so in fees if you pay with a CC or PayPal. 8% is you send a check, which are a nuisance and don't have the same sheet protections. Personally, i do not encourage people to buy direct from me. They always want 100% or even 200% of any fees i save and i end up with slightly more risk for the same or less money.

    See, this is where you and I just have fundamentally different viewpoints. E-checks are not a nuisance at all, and neither is Zelle. I make every effort to encourage direct sales by marking up my ebay prices higher than my website prices, and its not difficult to find your way to my website from my ebay page. Why would I want to give ebay 9% for doing nothing other than letting me use their infrastructure? I have to do all of the work to try to make 9% in the first place, so I essentially have to double the markup if I want to sell there.

    When the average coin is in the 3k-5k range, it seems like Ebay is getting way too much for taking none of the risk. They have the cap on 9% fee at $4,000 before it goes to 2.35%, and in my opinion that should be set at $1,000 or $2,000. All of the "protections" in place are for the buyer, and it seems like my listings barely get any views unless i pay their extortion promotion fees that start at a minimum of 2%, on top of the 9%. I suppose it's just a matter of perception, but with a lower value higher margin coin I guess it wouldn’t sting as much.

    E-checks and Zelle are fine and don't allow charge backs. I was talking more about actual paper checks.

    You are free to not use ebay at all. You do, however. Why? Because of eyeballs. So, while you complain about the costs, you actual value the service. You just don't want to pay for it. And, actually, you don't even want the customer to pay for it.

    In general, I don't care whether the sale is direct or through eBay. However, as i pointed out, the problem is that everyone wants a 10 to 20% discount to save me 5 to 9% in PayPal fees. There is no real advantage to me in doing that, especially since I don't mind paying ebay for their most excellent and reasonably priced service.

    A couple weeks ago, a customer offered to buy a $20,000 comic off ebay and "PayPal immediately" and "save you the ebay fees" if I gave him a 15% discount. So, as usual, I had to explain to him that the total ebay fees on a $20,000 comic are 3.6%, almost the same as the PayPal fees and so I was simply losing 15% (along with the seller protections".

    For everyone who dislikes ebay, it's easy. Don't use ebay. Dare you. 😉

    You think I have an attachment to ebay? I use it becuase its extra visibility, but if I had any incentive to not use it, I would close my account in a heartbeat.

    Eyeballs? What eyeballs, I've had listings up for weeks that have 22 views. I seldom have an item sell there, anyone who pays attention ends up on my website. Had a sale last week, I was pleased to see that a fairly generic double eagle sold for $3,500. Buyer had limited, but positive feedback. His account shows that hes a jeweler/precious metals dealer in miami.

    The coin sold for $3,500 but after fees I netted about $3,100. It's on my website for $3,250. I felt bad that he paid the inflated price, so as a gesture of goodwill i threw in a one of the Peak Rarities T shirts I recently had made, and hand wrote a little note thanking him for his business.

    Shupped the coin priority mail, and a return was initiated the day it was delivered. His reason? "Coin does not match item description or photos"...🤦‍♂️

    Mind you, this is a really nice 64+ that sits closer to the 65 line. He didn't like the "tarnish" that wasn't shown in the photos (just a bit of stacking table dirt frequently seen on gold). Funny thing is, my pictures of this coin were EXCELLENT and did in fact show the dirt on the high points. The buyer obviously has little experience with gold coins and doesnt realize that most original coins have some dirt on the high points. I'm curious to see if he returns the shirt, because if he doesn't I'll be out the $18 or so it cost me for that, plus the $12 it cost me for Priority mail with signature. Some may want to block this one to avoid a future headache...



    The listing-https://www.ebay.com/itm/156253574068

    And through your website, unless you only take zelle, he would initiate a charge back and the CC company often won't even bother to track the return.

    Right, but perhaps he wouldn’t have returned it if he paid 3250 instead of 3500, and I would have netted about $75 more.

    I doubt that he hated the coin but would keep it for an 8% discount.

    Remember, his ebay profile is to a jeweler and precious metals dealer in miami. He probably realized he couldnt sell it for much more and decided to return it.

    AND I just received the coin back, and the amount I owe back is $3,285. I only netted $3,167 from the sale. The shipping label was $12.41, so in addition to that, Ebay keeps the $105.00 promoted ad fee?

    Im about to call them, because now I'm out $120 with nothing to show for it. I didn't even realize that they dont refund promotion fees, and now I'm furious. About to deactivate my store depending on the outcome of this call.

    Founder- Peak Rarities
    Website
    Instagram
    Facebook

  • PeakRaritiesPeakRarities Posts: 3,700 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Ok, they said the additional $105 from the ads should be refunded separately within 48 hours. I told him that it might be helpful for their system to reflect that in the future.

    Founder- Peak Rarities
    Website
    Instagram
    Facebook

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 8,174 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2024 11:49AM

    @IkesT said:

    @Cougar1978 said:

    @IkesT said:
    @Cougar1978

    I'm getting confused - you keep changing your post.

    It’s none of your business how I manage posts lol (changes, deletions) and as far as the other comment no explanation necessary.

    Coins & Currency
  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 8,174 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2024 11:19AM

    @davewesen said:
    I often wonder what happens with an expensive coin return that does not make it. The eBay printed labels for return do not show insurance or anything ...

    I do too. A friend had that happen on a $2700 coin and the seller dd not refund and referred the buyer to USPS, and his bankruptcy attorney. Hope eBay reimbursed him. Prefer buy big ticket stuff above my risk limit at shows sight seen.

    Coins & Currency
  • IkesTIkesT Posts: 3,095 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Cougar1978 said:
    If I called them with an offer and it wasn’t returned, I would just leave a message and move on. Perhaps the owner has not had it long enough to find out what he wants to retail it for. If it’s a roll perhaps some can be slabbed. Or your offer is lower than his target profit range for the item.

    I had a guy at a show pushing me for a price on a really nice roll of BU Franklin halves (think he thought he was going to get an easy rip) I had just purchased from a walkup seller a few minutes before. He was a dunce blowing in the wind. I needed time to evaluate the deal, what could be slabbed, what could retail it all for for (cost plus). Max profit. I just told him “they are for a customer (me)” and put them out of sight in a bank bag. I did send about 50-60 pct of them in for grading (they did really well). In retailing both the slabbed (super fantastic return on cost) and raw pieces over time (nice positive return on them too), realized a really huge gain on my money (the cost of the roll).

    Was it something like this?

  • CatbertCatbert Posts: 7,092 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Cougar playing:

    Seated Half Society member #38
    "Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
  • tcollectstcollects Posts: 1,037 ✭✭✭✭✭

    this is an interesting thread - now, I have a couple folks on ignore - but it's great

  • jmlanzafjmlanzaf Posts: 33,927 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @PeakRarities said:

    @jmlanzaf said:

    @PeakRarities said:
    And @jmlanzaf, this is about my 10th ebay order total, and 6th numismatic slabbed coin. Out of the 6, 2 of them were returns. The other one was a 94-s DE in 64cac, a $6,000 sale. The lysting had a myriad of pictures from every angle, and I even included an HD VIDEO of the coin under a light. The reson selected on ebay was "Ordered by mistake", but when i got the coin back there was a note that said it had "too many scratches". Again, someone with no gold experience who doesnt understand that these coins pick up hairlines, and an MS64 is not going to be devoid of any hits/hairlines.

    Do you think that If you were in my position, you'd understand why I hold this position? Between those two listings, Ebay's cut would have been more than $800. For expensive numismatic coins, their FVF should be capped at like $100 or $200 at the most, what did they do to earn over $800?

    Which position?

    I have no problem with people refusing to use ebay. There are many things that I would never sell on ebay. But you seem to be claiming they have no utility as the same time that you insist on using them.

    I would love if they were cheaper. They are what they are.

    The fees on a $6000 coin are $377 (basic store and TRS). Payment processing alone is about $200. That really is, in my opinion, pretty reasonable given that no one would ever find the coin on my private website.

    The position that Ebay fees are not a a good value for the sertvice provided.

    Ebay fees on that order were just over $400, but that includes the $11 priority shipping. Payment processing for any credit card other than AMEX would be $174.

    "That really is, in my opinion, pretty reasonable given that no one would ever find the coin on my private website."

    Why do you assume that? That's only because you prefer to lean on Ebay's user base, but if you put effort into marketing and advertising, you could have just as much traffic on your own accord.

    You (I) would need to spend a lot of money and effort on promotion. I tried 20 years ago. That's why we, myself and people like myself, happily pay ebay to provide the eyeballs.

    Don't get me wrong, you can build a business over time. You know. You've done it. But I'm not a full-time dealer. I also am not interested in becoming one right now.

    True story. Over the summer, I cross- listed my better comic books in FB and IG comic groups that had thousands of members. I discounted the price about 8 or 10%. Every single one of those books ended up selling on Ebay. And everyone who contacted me on the other channel wanted a further discount.

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