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SLQ grade questions in a PCGS slab.

Russell12Russell12 Posts: 230 ✭✭✭✭

I posted this in the thread "Anyone want to share their new purchases?" and got conflicting opinions about the grade. It's a PCGS MS64FH . While it tested the upper limits of my show budget, I had to have it for my PCGS Type Set. I've never submitted a coin to PCGS before and not sure I would, but I have to know if this is worth trying to upgrade. I could bring it with me to the next show I attend when PCGS is there. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Comments

  • dsessomdsessom Posts: 2,317 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It looks properly graded to me. It's definitely an outstanding example for the grade though! I would personally keep it as-is because the regrade game is expensive and you most likely will not end up with an upgrade. I have seen people resubmit the same coin over and over until they get the grade they want, or they just give up on it.

    In the case of this particular coin, you stand to gain around $500 in value IF it upgrades to 65. I do not see it grading higher than that, but you might spend several hundred dollars in grading fees, shipping and insurance to achieve that goal.

    The decision is yours to make ultimately though. Good luck either way!

    Dwayne Sessom
  • Mr_SpudMr_Spud Posts: 5,279 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I prefer coins that aren’t maxed out grade wise myself. It’s psychological, but something about having a coin that looks nicer than the grade on the slab label appeals to me much more than one that looks average for the grade. This is for coins for my long term collection. I’d probably think differently if I was trying to sell them though.

    Mr_Spud

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,405 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I have no idea how accurate the images are and what flaws, if any, they're masking. But if asked to guess the grade, I would have guessed MS65FH.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • ms71ms71 Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Very nice coin. What holds it to a 64FH as I see it is: 1.) The two significant marks in the right obverse field below the tail of the "Y" and 2.) The chatter marks in the right reverse, one on the first feather and three below it in the field. The two small spots in the field halfway between the chatter and the eagle's head look like they might just be toning; but could also be chatter.

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  • CopperindianCopperindian Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I like the coin. I think it’s correctly graded & might turn out to be an expense for nothing if you attempted an upgrade. Not worth the $500 increase in value, imo.

    “The thrill of the hunt never gets old”

    PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
    Copperindian

    Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
    Copperindian

  • ad4400ad4400 Posts: 2,083 ✭✭✭✭✭

    I concur that the factors listed by MS71 keep it from being a lock 65 upgrade. Very nice example none the less. As also noted here, the calculus could vary if you plan to keep it in long term set (keep as-is) vs selling in the near term.

    If you cracked it out, I don't see much downside risk that it would downgrade, but there is always risk and uncertainty. I've never had good luck with regrade or reconsideration. Seem to get a consolation + or variety attribution per grouping of four or five coins, but never a meaningful change to grade/value.

  • 124Spider124Spider Posts: 930 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Why not dip your toe in the water by submitting it to CAC for "approval." Other than the expense (which is not high), there's no real risk (i.e., if it is not "accepted," it will just be returned; maybe you'll learn that your beautiful coin, in the opinion of CAC, has a bit of leprosy, but there's not real harm). And it might just sticker (maybe even a gold sticker!).

  • Russell12Russell12 Posts: 230 ✭✭✭✭

    @124Spider said:
    Why not dip your toe in the water by submitting it to CAC for "approval."

    Nice suggestion but my day is a PCGS your set (AU50 or better, so far)

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,405 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Russell12 said:

    @124Spider said:
    Why not dip your toe in the water by submitting it to CAC for "approval."

    Nice suggestion but my day is a PCGS your set (AU50 or better, so far)

    I don't know exactly what you were saying above. But whatever it was, what did it have to do with trying to get the coin stickered by CAC?

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 9,287 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 3, 2024 7:50AM

    It looks properly graded to me. A green CAC sticker may be in order. Sending it to CACG to have them re-grade it in a slab would be very risky and unnecessary, IMHO.

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • Russell12Russell12 Posts: 230 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 3, 2024 11:22AM

    @MFeld said:

    @Russell12 said:

    @124Spider said:
    Why not dip your toe in the water by submitting it to CAC for "approval."

    Nice suggestion but my day is a PCGS your set (AU50 or better, so far)

    I don't know exactly what you were saying above. But whatever it was, what did it have to do with trying to get the coin stickered by CAC?

    That is what I get for trying to post from my phone. My collection is all PCGS, I thought you said to submit for a CAC slab, I see you meant the sicker.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,405 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2024 8:30AM

    @Russell12 said:

    @MFeld said:

    @Russell12 said:

    @124Spider said:
    Why not dip your toe in the water by submitting it to CAC for "approval."

    Nice suggestion but my day is a PCGS your set (AU50 or better, so far)

    I don't know exactly what you were saying above. But whatever it was, what did it have to do with trying to get the coin stickered by CAC?

    That is what I get for trying to post from my phone. My collection is all PCGS, I thought you said to submit for a CAC slab, I see you meant the sicker.

    I wasn’t the one who suggested it but I (typo corrected) think it was a good idea.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • CopperindianCopperindian Posts: 1,397 ✭✭✭✭✭

    FYI: if CAC doesn’t “bean” the coin, their fairly new policy is to charge @ 75%. They have a fee schedule according to the coin’s value. Yours has “economy” level charge, or $22. If it doesn’t bean, that would be $16.50. There’s a $10 handling charge + to/from shipping. Like others, I think it’s worth it to try. Maybe $60 total?
    Caution: you need to submit through a “club” member if you’re not one. CAC bills the member (usually charges a credit card on file) but they will ship directly to you if you specify that on the form submission. You will need to reimburse the club member that submitted for you.
    A bit of a process, but it will add value to your coin & open it up to more buyers in the future.

    “The thrill of the hunt never gets old”

    PCGS Registry: Screaming Eagles
    Copperindian

    Retired sets: Soaring Eagles
    Copperindian

  • coinbufcoinbuf Posts: 11,254 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 3, 2024 1:10PM

    @Russell12 said:
    I posted this in the thread "Anyone want to share their new purchases?" and got conflicting opinions about the grade. It's a PCGS MS64FH . While it tested the upper limits of my show budget, I had to have it for my PCGS Type Set. I've never submitted a coin to PCGS before and not sure I would, but I have to know if this is worth trying to upgrade. I could bring it with me to the next show I attend when PCGS is there. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

    First let me say that your coin looks great and you should be proud to have it in your collection. As to your question there are several factors to consider. One of those is what do you gain by a grade upgrade? If you plan to flip it quickly then trying for the upgrade may make perfect sense. Keep in mind that many times the posts you read here on upgrades are coins that are being flipped vs coins that a collector is keeping for a long time hold.

    Another reason could be for registry points, but again is the juice worth the squeeze. Will a + or even a one point upgrade make any difference to your set. Maybe instead of using your funds on TPG fees you could add another coin to your collection. If value is the main driver then it would be prudent to consider what you paid for the coin. Did the seller you bought it from ask (and you paid) a PQ price premium? If so you could see very little price appreciation after the original cost + fees. Perhaps you would be better off asking a PQ price yourself when you attempt to sell in the future instead of spending monies now.

    Personally I think the CAC bean idea is the route that provides the best bang for the buck.

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  • braddickbraddick Posts: 23,946 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:
    I have no idea how accurate the images are and what flaws, if any, they're masking. But if asked to guess the grade, I would have guessed MS65FH.

    100%

    peacockcoins

  • ElcontadorElcontador Posts: 7,522 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Difference between a 4 and 5 are typically a few minor contact marks. Between a 5 & 6 is often a slight difference in eye appeal. I'm with the CAC green bean camp.

    I've had my fill of trying for upgrades. Sometimes I'm right, sometimes I get a plus on a coin that I didn't expect, and sometimes the nicest coin of what I sent in gets nothing, while others not as nice get pluses. Once I got an upgrade that I thought I didn't deserve. Once in 30 + years.

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  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 8,173 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2024 4:45AM

    I have a problem with it.

    What is the dark black area - rt top obverse? Looks granular - something similar on lt obv but not as pronounced. As is (photo above) Wb no go for me. Upgrade? No.

    Coins & Currency
  • Russell12Russell12 Posts: 230 ✭✭✭✭

    @Cougar1978 said:
    What is the dark black area - rt top obverse? Looks granular - something similar on lt obv but not as pronounced.

    Shadows on the picture, not on the coin

  • Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 8,173 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2024 4:44AM

    Well in that case hopefully should explain it.

    Would you please post a pic (yours) of the coin then? Blowing up their photo a granular black stuff look.

    Coins & Currency
  • Russell12Russell12 Posts: 230 ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 4, 2024 7:01AM

    The dark area on the top of the obverse is a shadow from the holder. I am still trying to figure out how to take good pictures of my slabs


  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,405 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Russell12 said:
    The dark area on the top of the obverse is a shadow from the holder. I am still trying to figure out how to take good pictures of my slabs


    Based on the new images, I wouldn't have have guessed MS65, as I did for the initial ones.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • Morgan13Morgan13 Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Regardless of what the grade I think it's a beautiful coin.
    Enjoy it!

    Student of numismatics and collector of Morgan dollars
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  • CRHer700CRHer700 Posts: 1,870 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @Russell12 said:

    @MFeld said:

    @Russell12 said:

    @124Spider said:
    Why not dip your toe in the water by submitting it to CAC for "approval."

    Nice suggestion but my day is a PCGS your set (AU50 or better, so far)

    I don't know exactly what you were saying above. But whatever it was, what did it have to do with trying to get the coin stickered by CAC?

    That is what I get for trying to post from my phone. My collection is all PCGS, I thought you said to submit for a CAC slab, I see you meant the sicker.

    I wasn’t the one who suggested it but I thunk it was a good idea.

    I thunk it is too.

    God bless all who believe in him. Do unto others what you expect to be done to you. Dubbed a "Committee Secret Agent" by @mr1931S on 7/23/24. Founding member of CU Anti-Troll League since 9/24/24.

  • CRHer700CRHer700 Posts: 1,870 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @Russell12 said:

    @MFeld said:

    @Russell12 said:

    @124Spider said:
    Why not dip your toe in the water by submitting it to CAC for "approval."

    Nice suggestion but my day is a PCGS your set (AU50 or better, so far)

    I don't know exactly what you were saying above. But whatever it was, what did it have to do with trying to get the coin stickered by CAC?

    That is what I get for trying to post from my phone. My collection is all PCGS, I thought you said to submit for a CAC slab, I see you meant the sicker.

    I wasn’t the one who suggested it but I thunk it was a good idea.

    I thunk it is too.

    God bless all who believe in him. Do unto others what you expect to be done to you. Dubbed a "Committee Secret Agent" by @mr1931S on 7/23/24. Founding member of CU Anti-Troll League since 9/24/24.

  • MFeldMFeld Posts: 13,405 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @CRHer700 said:

    @MFeld said:

    @Russell12 said:

    @MFeld said:

    @Russell12 said:

    @124Spider said:
    Why not dip your toe in the water by submitting it to CAC for "approval."

    Nice suggestion but my day is a PCGS your set (AU50 or better, so far)

    I don't know exactly what you were saying above. But whatever it was, what did it have to do with trying to get the coin stickered by CAC?

    That is what I get for trying to post from my phone. My collection is all PCGS, I thought you said to submit for a CAC slab, I see you meant the sicker.

    I wasn’t the one who suggested it but I thunk it was a good idea.

    I thunk it is too.

    Typo corrected.

    Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.

  • CRHer700CRHer700 Posts: 1,870 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Oh, I posted twice.

    God bless all who believe in him. Do unto others what you expect to be done to you. Dubbed a "Committee Secret Agent" by @mr1931S on 7/23/24. Founding member of CU Anti-Troll League since 9/24/24.

  • braddickbraddick Posts: 23,946 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @MFeld said:

    @Russell12 said:

    Based on the new images, I wouldn't have have guessed MS65, as I did for the initial ones.

    I agree.
    There is also a light film on the obverse I find a bit troubling.
    I'd like to know what it is and then perhaps if it could be safely and delicately curranted/removed.

    peacockcoins

  • hummingbird_coinshummingbird_coins Posts: 1,087 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @braddick said:

    @MFeld said:

    @Russell12 said:

    Based on the new images, I wouldn't have have guessed MS65, as I did for the initial ones.

    I agree.
    There is also a light film on the obverse I find a bit troubling.
    I'd like to know what it is and then perhaps if it could be safely and delicately curranted/removed.

    Nothing like a good currant juice dip to remove stains from a coin!

    Young Numismatist • My Toned Coins
    Life is roadblocks. Don't let nothing stop you, 'cause we ain't stopping. - DJ Khaled

  • braddickbraddick Posts: 23,946 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @hummingbird_coins said:

    @braddick said:

    @MFeld said:

    @Russell12 said:

    Based on the new images, I wouldn't have have guessed MS65, as I did for the initial ones.

    I agree.
    There is also a light film on the obverse I find a bit troubling.
    I'd like to know what it is and then perhaps if it could be safely and delicately curranted/removed.

    Nothing like a good currant juice dip to remove stains from a coin!

    peacockcoins

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