SLQ grade questions in a PCGS slab.
Russell12
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I posted this in the thread "Anyone want to share their new purchases?" and got conflicting opinions about the grade. It's a PCGS MS64FH . While it tested the upper limits of my show budget, I had to have it for my PCGS Type Set. I've never submitted a coin to PCGS before and not sure I would, but I have to know if this is worth trying to upgrade. I could bring it with me to the next show I attend when PCGS is there. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
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It looks properly graded to me. It's definitely an outstanding example for the grade though! I would personally keep it as-is because the regrade game is expensive and you most likely will not end up with an upgrade. I have seen people resubmit the same coin over and over until they get the grade they want, or they just give up on it.
In the case of this particular coin, you stand to gain around $500 in value IF it upgrades to 65. I do not see it grading higher than that, but you might spend several hundred dollars in grading fees, shipping and insurance to achieve that goal.
The decision is yours to make ultimately though. Good luck either way!
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I prefer coins that aren’t maxed out grade wise myself. It’s psychological, but something about having a coin that looks nicer than the grade on the slab label appeals to me much more than one that looks average for the grade. This is for coins for my long term collection. I’d probably think differently if I was trying to sell them though.
Mr_Spud
I have no idea how accurate the images are and what flaws, if any, they're masking. But if asked to guess the grade, I would have guessed MS65FH.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Very nice coin. What holds it to a 64FH as I see it is: 1.) The two significant marks in the right obverse field below the tail of the "Y" and 2.) The chatter marks in the right reverse, one on the first feather and three below it in the field. The two small spots in the field halfway between the chatter and the eagle's head look like they might just be toning; but could also be chatter.
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I like the coin. I think it’s correctly graded & might turn out to be an expense for nothing if you attempted an upgrade. Not worth the $500 increase in value, imo.
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I concur that the factors listed by MS71 keep it from being a lock 65 upgrade. Very nice example none the less. As also noted here, the calculus could vary if you plan to keep it in long term set (keep as-is) vs selling in the near term.
If you cracked it out, I don't see much downside risk that it would downgrade, but there is always risk and uncertainty. I've never had good luck with regrade or reconsideration. Seem to get a consolation + or variety attribution per grouping of four or five coins, but never a meaningful change to grade/value.
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Why not dip your toe in the water by submitting it to CAC for "approval." Other than the expense (which is not high), there's no real risk (i.e., if it is not "accepted," it will just be returned; maybe you'll learn that your beautiful coin, in the opinion of CAC, has a bit of leprosy, but there's not real harm). And it might just sticker (maybe even a gold sticker!).
Nice suggestion but my day is a PCGS your set (AU50 or better, so far)
I don't know exactly what you were saying above. But whatever it was, what did it have to do with trying to get the coin stickered by CAC?
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
It looks properly graded to me. A green CAC sticker may be in order. Sending it to CACG to have them re-grade it in a slab would be very risky and unnecessary, IMHO.
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That is what I get for trying to post from my phone. My collection is all PCGS, I thought you said to submit for a CAC slab, I see you meant the sicker.
I wasn’t the one who suggested it but I (typo corrected) think it was a good idea.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
FYI: if CAC doesn’t “bean” the coin, their fairly new policy is to charge @ 75%. They have a fee schedule according to the coin’s value. Yours has “economy” level charge, or $22. If it doesn’t bean, that would be $16.50. There’s a $10 handling charge + to/from shipping. Like others, I think it’s worth it to try. Maybe $60 total?
Caution: you need to submit through a “club” member if you’re not one. CAC bills the member (usually charges a credit card on file) but they will ship directly to you if you specify that on the form submission. You will need to reimburse the club member that submitted for you.
A bit of a process, but it will add value to your coin & open it up to more buyers in the future.
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First let me say that your coin looks great and you should be proud to have it in your collection. As to your question there are several factors to consider. One of those is what do you gain by a grade upgrade? If you plan to flip it quickly then trying for the upgrade may make perfect sense. Keep in mind that many times the posts you read here on upgrades are coins that are being flipped vs coins that a collector is keeping for a long time hold.
Another reason could be for registry points, but again is the juice worth the squeeze. Will a + or even a one point upgrade make any difference to your set. Maybe instead of using your funds on TPG fees you could add another coin to your collection. If value is the main driver then it would be prudent to consider what you paid for the coin. Did the seller you bought it from ask (and you paid) a PQ price premium? If so you could see very little price appreciation after the original cost + fees. Perhaps you would be better off asking a PQ price yourself when you attempt to sell in the future instead of spending monies now.
Personally I think the CAC bean idea is the route that provides the best bang for the buck.
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Difference between a 4 and 5 are typically a few minor contact marks. Between a 5 & 6 is often a slight difference in eye appeal. I'm with the CAC green bean camp.
I've had my fill of trying for upgrades. Sometimes I'm right, sometimes I get a plus on a coin that I didn't expect, and sometimes the nicest coin of what I sent in gets nothing, while others not as nice get pluses. Once I got an upgrade that I thought I didn't deserve. Once in 30 + years.
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I have a problem with it.
What is the dark black area - rt top obverse? Looks granular - something similar on lt obv but not as pronounced. As is (photo above) Wb no go for me. Upgrade? No.
Shadows on the picture, not on the coin
Well in that case hopefully should explain it.
Would you please post a pic (yours) of the coin then? Blowing up their photo a granular black stuff look.
The dark area on the top of the obverse is a shadow from the holder. I am still trying to figure out how to take good pictures of my slabs
Based on the new images, I wouldn't have have guessed MS65, as I did for the initial ones.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Regardless of what the grade I think it's a beautiful coin.
Enjoy it!
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I thunk it is too.
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I thunk it is too.
God bless all who believe in him. Do unto others what you expect to be done to you. Dubbed a "Committee Secret Agent" by @mr1931S on 7/23/24. Founding member of CU Anti-Troll League since 9/24/24.
Typo corrected.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Oh, I posted twice.
God bless all who believe in him. Do unto others what you expect to be done to you. Dubbed a "Committee Secret Agent" by @mr1931S on 7/23/24. Founding member of CU Anti-Troll League since 9/24/24.
I agree.
There is also a light film on the obverse I find a bit troubling.
I'd like to know what it is and then perhaps if it could be safely and delicately curranted/removed.
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