Ok, here we go, you bought a 1892-S Morgan Silver Dollar in MS-60, you got it at a nice price of $50k. You can get in a higher grades, but you're going to pay a premium. Rare Morgans are always in demand and you can't believe that one in this grade has not sold for 10 years... A MS-63 are going for $120k so you have a little bit of room, but honestly not much, we're probably talking between $55k to $65k and you may start off at $70k and hope for the best... Good luck, you should have bought that 1913 Liberty nickel...
@MFeld said:
Sometimes, there are good recent comps that make it relatively easy to price a coin at the “right” number. Other times, it can be a lot more difficult.
For purposes of privacy, the names, places, denomination, precise numbers, date, mint, grade and grading company have been omitted.
Only the following information is available to you:
CDN bid was $65,000.
Price guide was $100,000.
The most recent sale - same grading company and grade - was more than 10 years ago at $50,000.
Your maximum bid was $55,000.
You won the coin for $50,000.
What would your asking price be?
Please feel free to explain how you arrived at your price.
$100,000 + 8.6% processing fees + shipping.
The right person with the money for that sort of thing is gonna see the price guide and be willing to pay it.
Then, inevitably, waste a few months with the "fast money vs good money" argument in my head while I beat myself up over buying it. Then wish I never bought it in the first place. Get stressed, start drinking again. Settle for the first 85k that comes my way, maybe 80k if the person doesn't suck. Still charge them processing fees, eat the shipping. Tell myself I'm never gonna buy coins like this again and buy another one exactly like this a few weeks later for 10k more. Likely end up selling that one at a loss then talk smack on the internet to anyone who buys that kind of coin for the foreseeable future.
Edit: then invest the profits in precious metals at all time highs so I have something to complain about for the next 15 years.
@Cougar1978 said:
I would markup cost plus or take about bid plus 10-20 pct. The higher number of course. If it’s PQ probably even more. After all wb only one in room by far.
What’s the matter? Were you unhappy with your earlier reply in this thread?
“Frankly would just want move it quickly somewhere between CDN Bid and CDN CPG. At that level finding a buyer with enough pocket the biggest challenge. With CDN bid at $65000, I believe CPG would be around 80,000. As far as what I have in it ($50k) that’s business proprietary data and confidential with the seller. As far as trying get some kind of lofty PG number of $100k (just having fun) good luck.”
I may have left out something / In that case looks like for me bid plus a pct for asking price. At that level believe bid plus around 20 pct = CPG. would want try get.around CPG range. But at that big ticket range maybe take 5-10 pct above bid and move it. Of course a PQ piece could be priced higher.
Your problem would be more consistent if you use both CDN bid and CPG. I bid on stuff all the time make notes. Won auc item recently at $58 and bid was 80 / 110 CPG retail. So the 110 goes on back of holder as retail code, the $58 as cost code. A seller might Ideally want CPG but have room come down from offer that is close. Depends on Mkt conditions / cash flow needs. But of course negotiable based on room.
So that coin $50 k cost, Bid $65 k big ticket monster (65 bid / CPG retail of 78 or 80) if the guy puts $75 k on table most likely the coin wb his. Some needing money for emergency (cc lawsuit settlement) might take the $55k.
I have decided what I pay for a table fee at show advertising expense. So if I don’t make that GM wise not real depressed.
@Joe_360 said:
I may be looking at this all wrong, but why would you buy a coin that hasn't sold for "more than" 10 years thinking that you can flip for a profit?!?
So you wouldn't consider buying a 1933 $20 or a Type I 1804 $1? 1913 Liberty nickel?
Truly rare coins often don't appear for years at a time. The problem is we're used to more common coins that sell frequent
All 3 of your examples were all well over $1 Million so no comparison to a $50,000 coin that has not sold for over 10 years and sold at $50,000 below the price guide - This would be a bad purchase, they're no interest as in your examples..
The 1913 Liberty nickel sold for $4,56,000 is Aug 2018 (only 5 known pieces), no comparison to the example. The 1804 Type I $7,680,000 Aug 2021
1933 $20 piece sold $18,900,000 June 2021
I picked the most obvious examples. The price point is irrelevant and was not part of your original argument.
There are numerous 5 figure coins that are equally as rare, especially condition rarities. And, per my point, they don't come up very often.
There are also even cheaper coins in niche markets (exonumia, cal gold, etc) that don't appear for a decade or more at a time.
@Joe_360 said:
I may be looking at this all wrong, but why would you buy a coin that hasn't sold for "more than" 10 years thinking that you can flip for a profit?!?
So you wouldn't consider buying a 1933 $20 or a Type I 1804 $1? 1913 Liberty nickel?
Truly rare coins often don't appear for years at a time. The problem is we're used to more common coins that sell frequent
All 3 of your examples were all well over $1 Million so no comparison to a $50,000 coin that has not sold for over 10 years and sold at $50,000 below the price guide - This would be a bad purchase, they're no interest as in your examples..
The 1913 Liberty nickel sold for $4,56,000 is Aug 2018 (only 5 known pieces), no comparison to the example. The 1804 Type I $7,680,000 Aug 2021
1933 $20 piece sold $18,900,000 June 2021
I picked the most obvious examples. The price point is irrelevant and was not part of your original argument.
There are numerous 5 figure coins that are equally as rare, especially condition rarities. And, per my point, they don't come up very often.
There are also even cheaper coins in niche markets (exonumia, cal gold, etc) that don't appear for a decade or more at a time.
You're arguing my point, as stated, "You're a dealer". A dealer doesn't not want to invest $50k on a coin that won't move and sit in their inventory. I have spoken to dealers at shows, and all agree that it's easier for them to buy coins then to sell. You are going after popular coins, that you can buy at a price that you know that you can sell for a profit turn...
@DocBenjamin said:
Can always try to find the frustrated underbidder...
You usually can't find the underbidder, much less, always find him.
And as I indicated in the edited title to this thread, as well as a subsequent post, the coin was already sold.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@DocBenjamin said:
Can always try to find the frustrated underbidder...
You usually can't find the underbidder, much less, always find him.
And as I indicated in the edited title to this thread, as well as a subsequent post, the coin was already sold.
I read that, but if we stop now, we don't get to 200.
Having won it at that I would want get at least somewhere between bid and the high end close to CPG on it. However not a fan of that kind of big ticket material as can be long term hold in finding a real buyer. Don’t care about the underbidder or what somebody gave it away for - want a real buyer who gonna pay me the money especially if top pop item. Your example does not give the actual coin allowing one to look up in CDN (get CPG, and then research pop). That’s ok I can figure CPG or just apply my own markup factor above bid but pop (number graded , number higher very important.). Top Pop premium for the issue, can be way above normal pricing, especially if the coin PQ.
@Joe_360 said:
I may be looking at this all wrong, but why would you buy a coin that hasn't sold for "more than" 10 years thinking that you can flip for a profit?!?
So you wouldn't consider buying a 1933 $20 or a Type I 1804 $1? 1913 Liberty nickel?
Truly rare coins often don't appear for years at a time. The problem is we're used to more common coins that sell frequent
All 3 of your examples were all well over $1 Million so no comparison to a $50,000 coin that has not sold for over 10 years and sold at $50,000 below the price guide - This would be a bad purchase, they're no interest as in your examples..
The 1913 Liberty nickel sold for $4,56,000 is Aug 2018 (only 5 known pieces), no comparison to the example. The 1804 Type I $7,680,000 Aug 2021
1933 $20 piece sold $18,900,000 June 2021
I picked the most obvious examples. The price point is irrelevant and was not part of your original argument.
There are numerous 5 figure coins that are equally as rare, especially condition rarities. And, per my point, they don't come up very often.
There are also even cheaper coins in niche markets (exonumia, cal gold, etc) that don't appear for a decade or more at a time.
You're arguing my point, as stated, "You're a dealer". A dealer doesn't not want to invest $50k on a coin that won't move and sit in their inventory. I have spoken to dealers at shows, and all agree that it's easier for them to buy coins then to sell. You are going after popular coins, that you can buy at a price that you know that you can sell for a profit turn...
No. I'm not. You CAN buy 5 figure coins at auction to flip at a profit, including the one in this thread. You seem to be assuming that a coin that hasn't been auctioned for 10 years will always reach full retail at auction. It will not always do so. You don't need any more proof than the coin in this thread.
Dealers, especially niche dealers, know their market.
I won't call him out, but a large dealer in this forum flipped a mid 6 figure coin for a profit in a matter of weeks. The coin itself is ultrarare.. on the order of the 75 no S dime.
You're arguing my point, as stated, "You're a dealer". A dealer doesn't not want to invest $50k on a coin that won't move and sit in their inventory. I have spoken to dealers at shows, and all agree that it's easier for them to buy coins then to sell. You are going after popular coins, that you can buy at a price that you know that you can sell for a profit turn...
No. I'm not. You CAN buy 5 figure coins at auction to flip at a profit, including the one in this thread. You seem to be assuming that a coin that hasn't been auctioned for 10 years will always reach full retail at auction. It will not always do so. You don't need any more proof than the coin in this thread.
Dealers, especially niche dealers, know their market.
I won't call him out, but a large dealer in this forum flipped a mid 6 figure coin for a profit in a matter of weeks. The coin itself is ultrarare.. on the order of the 75 no S dime.
JA flipped an 1804 dollar in DAYS.
Agree to disagree then because you keep using super rare coins in you example as the 75 no S dime has only two examples known - that is "Super-rare" and sells for over $295,000.00, which is just slightly above $50k!!!
My example of an 1892-S is more inline with the original question put forth. At MS-60 you are at $50-$55k. AU is much lower and MS-63 takes a big jump - SO it is a "condition rarity" coin (as you stated in your previous post).
Now the Morgan's are very popular so it would be hard to believe none auctioned for 10 years, and you could flip it, but a dealer would not buy it at a price were it was going to sit in their inventory..
I respect you, so I'll just leave it at that. Enjoy your Sunday and the rest of this topic.. Joe
You're arguing my point, as stated, "You're a dealer". A dealer doesn't not want to invest $50k on a coin that won't move and sit in their inventory. I have spoken to dealers at shows, and all agree that it's easier for them to buy coins then to sell. You are going after popular coins, that you can buy at a price that you know that you can sell for a profit turn...
No. I'm not. You CAN buy 5 figure coins at auction to flip at a profit, including the one in this thread. You seem to be assuming that a coin that hasn't been auctioned for 10 years will always reach full retail at auction. It will not always do so. You don't need any more proof than the coin in this thread.
Dealers, especially niche dealers, know their market.
I won't call him out, but a large dealer in this forum flipped a mid 6 figure coin for a profit in a matter of weeks. The coin itself is ultrarare.. on the order of the 75 no S dime.
JA flipped an 1804 dollar in DAYS.
Agree to disagree then because you keep using super rare coins in you example as the 75 no S dime has only two examples known - that is "Super-rare" and sells for over $295,000.00, which is just slightly above $50k!!!
My example of an 1892-S is more inline with the original question put forth. At MS-60 you are at $50-$55k. AU is much lower and MS-63 takes a big jump - SO it is a "condition rarity" coin (as you stated in your previous post).
Now the Morgan's are very popular so it would be hard to believe none auctioned for 10 years, and you could flip it, but a dealer would not buy it at a price were it was going to sit in their inventory..
I respect you, so I'll just leave it at that. Enjoy your Sunday and the rest of this topic.. Joe
>
You sound like you’re hung up on “none auctioned for 10 years”. As I’ve posted, none had been auctioned in that grade by the same grading company in more than 10 years. But there have been other examples of the same grade by a different grading company, as well as higher and lower graded examples by both NGC and PCGS.
I only mentioned the “none of the same grade by the same grading company for more than 10 years” because that made it somewhat more difficult to come up with a value for the coin than if there had been more recent comps of examples graded by the same company.
But none of that had much, if any bearing on whether the buyer or the coin stood a good chance to be able to sell the coin at a profit.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
You sound like you’re hung up on “none auctioned for 10 years”. As I’ve posted, none had been auctioned in that grade by the same grading company in more than 10 years. But there have been other examples of the same grade by a different grading company, as well as higher and lower graded examples by both NGC and PCGS.
I only mentioned the “none of the same grade by the same grading company for more than 10 years” because that made it somewhat more difficult to come up with a value for the coin than if there had been more recent comps of examples graded by the same company.
But none of that had much, if any bearing on whether the buyer or the coin stood a good chance to be able to sell the coin at a profit.
Actually what I'm "hung up" on is in the title you state, "You're the dealer" and as a dealer you are out to make a profit because it is your "livelihood"...
You never called out NGC and/or PCGS so what if the coin was from one of the "other" 3rd parties that is not considered in their league? Would a "dealer" buy a coin (take on risk) graded by one of the lower grading companies? May explain why there has been no other auctions of that coin from this company for so long, that sounds like it could be a risk, as a dealer would you what to take on that risk?
I myself (Not as a dealer) pass on coins that are not graded by CAC, NGC or PCGS because I'm always thinking about resell...
You stated: But none of that had much, if any bearing on whether the buyer or the coin stood a good chance to be able to sell the coin at a profit.
It's not a buyer, it's a dealer and dealer would buys to sell if they could make a profit... Otherwise no college for the kiddies..
You sound like you’re hung up on “none auctioned for 10 years”. As I’ve posted, none had been auctioned in that grade by the same grading company in more than 10 years. But there have been other examples of the same grade by a different grading company, as well as higher and lower graded examples by both NGC and PCGS.
I only mentioned the “none of the same grade by the same grading company for more than 10 years” because that made it somewhat more difficult to come up with a value for the coin than if there had been more recent comps of examples graded by the same company.
But none of that had much, if any bearing on whether the buyer or the coin stood a good chance to be able to sell the coin at a profit.
Actually what I'm "hung up" on is in the title you state, "You're the dealer" and as a dealer you are out to make a profit because it is your "livelihood"...
You never called out NGC and/or PCGS so what if the coin was from one of the "other" 3rd parties that is not considered in their league? Would a "dealer" buy a coin (take on risk) graded by one of the lower grading companies? May explain why there has been no other auctions of that coin from this company for so long, that sounds like it could be a risk, as a dealer would you what to take on that risk?
I myself (Not as a dealer) pass on coins that are not graded by CAC, NGC or PCGS because I'm always thinking about resell...
You stated: But none of that had much, if any bearing on whether the buyer or the coin stood a good chance to be able to sell the coin at a profit.
It's not a buyer, it's a dealer and dealer would buys to sell if they could make a profit... Otherwise no college for the kiddies..
In my initial post, I included the “price guide” price. As far as I know, NGC and PCGS are the only two grading companies that publish price guides. So if the coin had been graded by a different company I wouldn’t have mentioned the price guide value. Said differently, the coin was graded by NGC or PCGS. But yes, dealers will take risks buying coins graded by other companies, just as they take risks buying coins graded by NGC and PCGS.
The likely reason that another example of the same grade by the same grading hadn’t been auctioned in more than 10 years is because the population is less than 8. However both PCGS and NGC have graded more than 20 examples higher. So in this case, if the coin had been a higher grade there probably would have been a more recent comp at the same grade by the same grading company.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@MFeld ,
Thank you for your explanation. Seems as we needed clarification on "Price Guide" and "Auctions results"
As when I use our host price guide I want to see how they came up with it (never assume) so I do a need deep-dive and as you can see below, it include other grading companies.. (All auctions including e-Bay)
A population of <8 with only 20 in a higher examples would leave me to believe that this is a very rare coin (or far lower quality than the 20 above) and if you got it for $50k, was ready to go to $55k and there were no higher bidders, that would send off a red-flag (at least to me...) or is a great deal. Anyway, your question is just a game but I would have my concerns on this coin.
There's very low risk buying a coin graded by our host and/or NGC, if it's a sought after coin such at a Lincoln, Morgan, other, it will sell... again, IMO.
@Joe_360 said: @MFeld ,
Thank you for your explanation. Seems as we needed clarification on "Price Guide" and "Auctions results"
As when I use our host price guide I want to see how they came up with it (never assume) so I do a need deep-dive and as you can see below, it include other grading companies.. (All auctions including e-Bay)
A population of <8 with only 20 in a higher examples would leave me to believe that this is a very rare coin (or far lower quality than the 20 above) and if you got it for $50k, was ready to go to $55k and there were no higher bidders, that would send off a red-flag (at least to me...) or is a great deal. Anyway, your question is just a game but I would have my concerns on this coin.
There's very low risk buying a coin graded by our host and/or NGC, if it's a sought after coin such at a Lincoln, Morgan, other, it will sell... again, IMO.
Thanks for your post, Joe
Joe, you’re most welcome.
I can understand your concern about the mystery purchase, but the buyer knew what he was doing and quickly sold the coin for an 11% profit. Keep in mind that what one person considers a risky purchase, another might consider a very good deal or vice versa.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@Joe_360 said: @MFeld ,
Thank you for your explanation. Seems as we needed clarification on "Price Guide" and "Auctions results"
As when I use our host price guide I want to see how they came up with it (never assume) so I do a need deep-dive and as you can see below, it include other grading companies.. (All auctions including e-Bay)
A population of <8 with only 20 in a higher examples would leave me to believe that this is a very rare coin (or far lower quality than the 20 above) and if you got it for $50k, was ready to go to $55k and there were no higher bidders, that would send off a red-flag (at least to me...) or is a great deal. Anyway, your question is just a game but I would have my concerns on this coin.
There's very low risk buying a coin graded by our host and/or NGC, if it's a sought after coin such at a Lincoln, Morgan, other, it will sell... again, IMO.
Thanks for your post, Joe
Joe, you’re most welcome.
I can understand your concern about the mystery purchase, but the buyer knew what he was doing and quickly sold the coin for an 11% profit. Keep in mind that what one person considers a risky purchase, another might consider a very good deal or vice versa.
Had he won the coin at his max bid, his sale price would have been a break even.
@Joe_360 said: @MFeld ,
Thank you for your explanation. Seems as we needed clarification on "Price Guide" and "Auctions results"
As when I use our host price guide I want to see how they came up with it (never assume) so I do a need deep-dive and as you can see below, it include other grading companies.. (All auctions including e-Bay)
A population of <8 with only 20 in a higher examples would leave me to believe that this is a very rare coin (or far lower quality than the 20 above) and if you got it for $50k, was ready to go to $55k and there were no higher bidders, that would send off a red-flag (at least to me...) or is a great deal. Anyway, your question is just a game but I would have my concerns on this coin.
There's very low risk buying a coin graded by our host and/or NGC, if it's a sought after coin such at a Lincoln, Morgan, other, it will sell... again, IMO.
Thanks for your post, Joe
Joe, you’re most welcome.
I can understand your concern about the mystery purchase, but the buyer knew what he was doing and quickly sold the coin for an 11% profit. Keep in mind that what one person considers a risky purchase, another might consider a very good deal or vice versa.
Had he won the coin at the next increment, his sale price would have been a break even.
Interesting real time exercise.
Had he won the coin at the next increment, it’s highly doubtful that he would have been willing to sell it at the price he did - at least not for at least a few weeks,
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@Joe_360 said: @MFeld ,
Thank you for your explanation. Seems as we needed clarification on "Price Guide" and "Auctions results"
As when I use our host price guide I want to see how they came up with it (never assume) so I do a need deep-dive and as you can see below, it include other grading companies.. (All auctions including e-Bay)
A population of <8 with only 20 in a higher examples would leave me to believe that this is a very rare coin (or far lower quality than the 20 above) and if you got it for $50k, was ready to go to $55k and there were no higher bidders, that would send off a red-flag (at least to me...) or is a great deal. Anyway, your question is just a game but I would have my concerns on this coin.
There's very low risk buying a coin graded by our host and/or NGC, if it's a sought after coin such at a Lincoln, Morgan, other, it will sell... again, IMO.
Thanks for your post, Joe
Joe, you’re most welcome.
I can understand your concern about the mystery purchase, but the buyer knew what he was doing and quickly sold the coin for an 11% profit. Keep in mind that what one person considers a risky purchase, another might consider a very good deal or vice versa.
Had he won the coin at the next increment, his sale price would have been a break even.
Interesting real time exercise.
Had he won the coin at the next increment, it’s highly doubtful that he would have been willing to sell it at the price he did - at least not for at least a few weeks,
I could have stated that better. Dealer considered a fair bid to be $55k which was the price that he resold the coin for. Generous of him (or her) to do that. Maybe not the best business strategy though, but hey, still a nice short term return.
You're arguing my point, as stated, "You're a dealer". A dealer doesn't not want to invest $50k on a coin that won't move and sit in their inventory. I have spoken to dealers at shows, and all agree that it's easier for them to buy coins then to sell. You are going after popular coins, that you can buy at a price that you know that you can sell for a profit turn...
No. I'm not. You CAN buy 5 figure coins at auction to flip at a profit, including the one in this thread. You seem to be assuming that a coin that hasn't been auctioned for 10 years will always reach full retail at auction. It will not always do so. You don't need any more proof than the coin in this thread.
Dealers, especially niche dealers, know their market.
I won't call him out, but a large dealer in this forum flipped a mid 6 figure coin for a profit in a matter of weeks. The coin itself is ultrarare.. on the order of the 75 no S dime.
JA flipped an 1804 dollar in DAYS.
Agree to disagree then because you keep using super rare coins in you example as the 75 no S dime has only two examples known - that is "Super-rare" and sells for over $295,000.00, which is just slightly above $50k!!!
My example of an 1892-S is more inline with the original question put forth. At MS-60 you are at $50-$55k. AU is much lower and MS-63 takes a big jump - SO it is a "condition rarity" coin (as you stated in your previous post).
Now the Morgan's are very popular so it would be hard to believe none auctioned for 10 years, and you could flip it, but a dealer would not buy it at a price were it was going to sit in their inventory..
I respect you, so I'll just leave it at that. Enjoy your Sunday and the rest of this topic.. Joe
We can certainly agree to disagree. The fact remains that this thread is about a real dealer and a real coin and that dealer did exactly what you say dealers won't do. Dealers buy 5 figure coins at auction weekly for resale. It is unusual, except for very rare coins, however, for their not to be a similar sale for 10 years.
Once, i bought a very rare coin - only 6 in all grades - at a Stack's auction for $160 and flipped it in a week on ebay for $300. [Not a US coin. ] Things fail to max in an auction all the time which is why dealers frequent them. This happens a lot even in the 5 figure range because you need TWO retail buyers in that night to get there.
I'm not hung up on super rarities other than those are the only ones I remember because it is so common in the 4 and 5 figure range.
So all and all an interesting post, with good interaction. I did like @Crypto reply as it had some good points.
@MFeld: you mentioned 11% profit, can you be more specific is the 11% sale price over buy price only? Or does the 11% represent the margin after all pre and post fees? As you indicated auction buy, my auction experience has had a premium fee (~15% to 22%), and there shipping, insurance (live auction?) and possibly tax. Cost on the selling side, that would depend on method used.
@jmlanzaf you mentioned that things fail to max in auctions, and find "great opportunity buys", but I have to wonder just how frequent this maybe because if "you're a true dealer", how much time can you spend reviewing many auctions searching for the "diamonds in the rough"? I mean as a dealer you're preparing, travelling and attending shows. Also maybe managing a website, going to estate sales, borrowing, bookkeeping, etc.. The dealers that I know are "road- warriors"..
Or are some (buy-sell) dealers concentrating mostly on online auctions as the main business model? It must take time and effort to be consistently successful buying on auctions and than selling. As a livelihood, time is money and there are only so many hours in a day.
From you non-US buy-sell example, after auction/e-Bay cost, I would estimate that you netted ~$67? Which is good for a non-US coin!
@mr1931S said:
Price guide says $100K. That would be my price.
Good place to start and let the market decide if you are too high. That it flipped in a short time demonstrates that money was probably left on the table.
@Joe_360 said:
So all and all an interesting post, with good interaction. I did like @Crypto reply as it had some good points.
@MFeld: you mentioned 11% profit, can you be more specific is the 11% sale price over buy price only? Or does the 11% represent the margin after all pre and post fees? As you indicated auction buy, my auction experience has had a premium fee (~15% to 22%), and there shipping, insurance (live auction?) and possibly tax. Cost on the selling side, that would depend on method used.
@jmlanzaf you mentioned that things fail to max in auctions, and find "great opportunity buys", but I have to wonder just how frequent this maybe because if "you're a true dealer", how much time can you spend reviewing many auctions searching for the "diamonds in the rough"? I mean as a dealer you're preparing, travelling and attending shows. Also maybe managing a website, going to estate sales, borrowing, bookkeeping, etc.. The dealers that I know are "road- warriors"..
Or are some (buy-sell) dealers concentrating mostly on online auctions as the main business model? It must take time and effort to be consistently successful buying on auctions and than selling. As a livelihood, time is money and there are only so many hours in a day.
From you non-US buy-sell example, after auction/e-Bay cost, I would estimate that you netted ~$67? Which is good for a non-US coin!
As I posted elsewhere in this thread, the cost I listed included the buyer’s premium.
The dealer who won the coin and then sold it might or might not be charging the buyer for shipping - I don’t know. There wouldn’t be any other meaningful costs involved.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@Joe_360 said:
So all and all an interesting post, with good interaction. I did like @Crypto reply as it had some good points.
@MFeld: you mentioned 11% profit, can you be more specific is the 11% sale price over buy price only? Or does the 11% represent the margin after all pre and post fees? As you indicated auction buy, my auction experience has had a premium fee (~15% to 22%), and there shipping, insurance (live auction?) and possibly tax. Cost on the selling side, that would depend on method used.
@jmlanzaf you mentioned that things fail to max in auctions, and find "great opportunity buys", but I have to wonder just how frequent this maybe because if "you're a true dealer", how much time can you spend reviewing many auctions searching for the "diamonds in the rough"? I mean as a dealer you're preparing, travelling and attending shows. Also maybe managing a website, going to estate sales, borrowing, bookkeeping, etc.. The dealers that I know are "road- warriors"..
Or are some (buy-sell) dealers concentrating mostly on online auctions as the main business model? It must take time and effort to be consistently successful buying on auctions and than selling. As a livelihood, time is money and there are only so many hours in a day.
From you non-US buy-sell example, after auction/e-Bay cost, I would estimate that you netted ~$67? Which is good for a non-US coin!
As I posted elsewhere in this thread, the cost I listed included the buyer’s premium.
The dealer who won the coin and then sold it might or might not be charging the buyer for shipping - I don’t know. There wouldn’t be any other meaningful costs involved.
Not variable costs. It is the fixed costs that can be a bite in the tuchus.
@Joe_360 said:
So all and all an interesting post, with good interaction. I did like @Crypto reply as it had some good points.
@MFeld: you mentioned 11% profit, can you be more specific is the 11% sale price over buy price only? Or does the 11% represent the margin after all pre and post fees? As you indicated auction buy, my auction experience has had a premium fee (~15% to 22%), and there shipping, insurance (live auction?) and possibly tax. Cost on the selling side, that would depend on method used.
@jmlanzaf you mentioned that things fail to max in auctions, and find "great opportunity buys", but I have to wonder just how frequent this maybe because if "you're a true dealer", how much time can you spend reviewing many auctions searching for the "diamonds in the rough"? I mean as a dealer you're preparing, travelling and attending shows. Also maybe managing a website, going to estate sales, borrowing, bookkeeping, etc.. The dealers that I know are "road- warriors"..
Or are some (buy-sell) dealers concentrating mostly on online auctions as the main business model? It must take time and effort to be consistently successful buying on auctions and than selling. As a livelihood, time is money and there are only so many hours in a day.
From you non-US buy-sell example, after auction/e-Bay cost, I would estimate that you netted ~$67? Which is good for a non-US coin!
Total fees on $300 is $25 ish. So i netted about $275 -$160 cost is about $110 or $115.
Many/most dealers spend numerous hours perusing auctions. Probably 1/3 to 1/2 of coins in major auctions are bought by dealers.
I don't mean to imply in any way that coins are constantly falling through the cracks, but it's enough to make it worthwhile for dealers to look.
@cameonut2011 said:
Did the coin sell? What was the approach used if so? Are you in a better position to give more specifics now?
Yes, three days after I started this thread I posted that the coin had sold. The dealer made approximately 12% - a price that was very close to his maximum bid.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@cameonut2011 said:
Did the coin sell? What was the approach used if so? Are you in a better position to give more specifics now?
Yes, three days after I started this thread I posted that the coin had sold. The dealer made approximately 12% - a price that was very close to his maximum bid.
I’m sorry I missed it. Can you tell us date, denomination, grade, service, etc.? It may help as a learning case (with the understanding the specifics could alter the pricing differential).
@cameonut2011 said:
Did the coin sell? What was the approach used if so? Are you in a better position to give more specifics now?
Yes, three days after I started this thread I posted that the coin had sold. The dealer made approximately 12% - a price that was very close to his maximum bid.
I’m sorry I missed it. Can you tell us date, denomination, grade, service, etc.? It may help as a learning case (with the understanding the specifics could alter the pricing differential).
Sorry, as I also posted previously, I can't disclose specifics, as that would be violating a confidence.
This thread wasn't meant to be about any particular coin, but instead, about a situation that arises on occasion. As a seller, how do you price a coin that you win in auction, relative to your maximum bid (not just based on your winning bid)?
This is a long thread, so it's easy to miss some posts. I can speak from personal experience.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@cameonut2011 said:
Did the coin sell? What was the approach used if so? Are you in a better position to give more specifics now?
Yes, three days after I started this thread I posted that the coin had sold. The dealer made approximately 12% - a price that was very close to his maximum bid.
I’m sorry I missed it. Can you tell us date, denomination, grade, service, etc.? It may help as a learning case (with the understanding the specifics could alter the pricing differential).
Sorry, as I also posted previously, I can't disclose specifics, as that would be violating a confidence.
This thread wasn't meant to be about any particular coin, but instead, about a situation that arises on occasion. As a seller, how do you price a coin that you win in auction, relative to your maximum bid (not just based on your winning bid)?
This is a long thread, so it's easy to miss some posts. I can speak from personal experience.
Appreciate the the details are kept in confidence, But blindly comparing unknown apples to elusive oranges makes the game more speculative than accurate.
@cameonut2011 said:
Did the coin sell? What was the approach used if so? Are you in a better position to give more specifics now?
Yes, three days after I started this thread I posted that the coin had sold. The dealer made approximately 12% - a price that was very close to his maximum bid.
I’m sorry I missed it. Can you tell us date, denomination, grade, service, etc.? It may help as a learning case (with the understanding the specifics could alter the pricing differential).
Sorry, as I also posted previously, I can't disclose specifics, as that would be violating a confidence.
This thread wasn't meant to be about any particular coin, but instead, about a situation that arises on occasion. As a seller, how do you price a coin that you win in auction, relative to your maximum bid (not just based on your winning bid)?
This is a long thread, so it's easy to miss some posts. I can speak from personal experience.
Appreciate the the details are kept in confidence, But blindly comparing unknown apples to elusive oranges makes the game more speculative than accurate.
Copied below is part of my first post to this thread. If I were to disclose any such information after the fact, it would be no less of a breach of a confidence. I think there was enough information presented to make the topic of interest and possible future assistance to some collectors. Anyone is free to disagree.
“For purposes of privacy, the names, places, denomination, precise numbers, date, mint, grade and grading company have been omitted.
Only the following information is available to you:
CDN bid was $65,000.
Price guide was $100,000.
The most recent sale - same grading company and grade - was more than 10 years ago at $50,000.
Your maximum bid was $55,000.
You won the coin for $50,000.”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@cameonut2011 said:
Did the coin sell? What was the approach used if so? Are you in a better position to give more specifics now?
Yes, three days after I started this thread I posted that the coin had sold. The dealer made approximately 12% - a price that was very close to his maximum bid.
I’m sorry I missed it. Can you tell us date, denomination, grade, service, etc.? It may help as a learning case (with the understanding the specifics could alter the pricing differential).
Sorry, as I also posted previously, I can't disclose specifics, as that would be violating a confidence.
This thread wasn't meant to be about any particular coin, but instead, about a situation that arises on occasion. As a seller, how do you price a coin that you win in auction, relative to your maximum bid (not just based on your winning bid)?
This is a long thread, so it's easy to miss some posts. I can speak from personal experience.
Appreciate the the details are kept in confidence, But blindly comparing unknown apples to elusive oranges makes the game more speculative than accurate.
Copied below is part of my first post to this thread. If I were to disclose any such information after the fact, it would be no less of a breach of a confidence. I think there was enough information presented to make the topic of interest and possible future assistance to some collectors. Anyone is free to disagree.
“For purposes of privacy, the names, places, denomination, precise numbers, date, mint, grade and grading company have been omitted.
Only the following information is available to you:
CDN bid was $65,000.
Price guide was $100,000.
The most recent sale - same grading company and grade - was more than 10 years ago at $50,000.
Your maximum bid was $55,000.
You won the coin for $50,000.”
But a 1895 Dollar has a much broader audience than a top population 3 C Silver at the same cost.
@cameonut2011 said:
Did the coin sell? What was the approach used if so? Are you in a better position to give more specifics now?
Yes, three days after I started this thread I posted that the coin had sold. The dealer made approximately 12% - a price that was very close to his maximum bid.
I’m sorry I missed it. Can you tell us date, denomination, grade, service, etc.? It may help as a learning case (with the understanding the specifics could alter the pricing differential).
Sorry, as I also posted previously, I can't disclose specifics, as that would be violating a confidence.
This thread wasn't meant to be about any particular coin, but instead, about a situation that arises on occasion. As a seller, how do you price a coin that you win in auction, relative to your maximum bid (not just based on your winning bid)?
This is a long thread, so it's easy to miss some posts. I can speak from personal experience.
Appreciate the the details are kept in confidence, But blindly comparing unknown apples to elusive oranges makes the game more speculative than accurate.
Copied below is part of my first post to this thread. If I were to disclose any such information after the fact, it would be no less of a breach of a confidence. I think there was enough information presented to make the topic of interest and possible future assistance to some collectors. Anyone is free to disagree.
“For purposes of privacy, the names, places, denomination, precise numbers, date, mint, grade and grading company have been omitted.
Only the following information is available to you:
CDN bid was $65,000.
Price guide was $100,000.
The most recent sale - same grading company and grade - was more than 10 years ago at $50,000.
Your maximum bid was $55,000.
You won the coin for $50,000.”
But a 1895 Dollar has a much broader audience than a top population 3 C Silver at the same cost.
Liquidity generally dictates a lower markup.
And that would have been taken into account in the original bid.
This thread wasn't meant to be about the markup, per-se. It was about how do you price a coin that you win in auction, relative to your maximum bid (not just based on your winning bid)? How much weight do you give your maximum bid compared to the collective pricing of the auction bidders?
Now please have the last word.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@cameonut2011 said:
Did the coin sell? What was the approach used if so? Are you in a better position to give more specifics now?
Yes, three days after I started this thread I posted that the coin had sold. The dealer made approximately 12% - a price that was very close to his maximum bid.
I’m sorry I missed it. Can you tell us date, denomination, grade, service, etc.? It may help as a learning case (with the understanding the specifics could alter the pricing differential).
Sorry, as I also posted previously, I can't disclose specifics, as that would be violating a confidence.
This thread wasn't meant to be about any particular coin, but instead, about a situation that arises on occasion. As a seller, how do you price a coin that you win in auction, relative to your maximum bid (not just based on your winning bid)?
This is a long thread, so it's easy to miss some posts. I can speak from personal experience.
Appreciate the the details are kept in confidence, But blindly comparing unknown apples to elusive oranges makes the game more speculative than accurate.
Copied below is part of my first post to this thread. If I were to disclose any such information after the fact, it would be no less of a breach of a confidence. I think there was enough information presented to make the topic of interest and possible future assistance to some collectors. Anyone is free to disagree.
“For purposes of privacy, the names, places, denomination, precise numbers, date, mint, grade and grading company have been omitted.
Only the following information is available to you:
CDN bid was $65,000.
Price guide was $100,000.
The most recent sale - same grading company and grade - was more than 10 years ago at $50,000.
Your maximum bid was $55,000.
You won the coin for $50,000.”
But a 1895 Dollar has a much broader audience than a top population 3 C Silver at the same cost.
Liquidity generally dictates a lower markup.
And that would have been taken into account in the original bid.
This thread wasn't meant to be about the markup, per-se. It was about how do you price a coin that you win in auction, relative to your maximum bid (not just based on your winning bid)? How much weight do you give your maximum bid compared to the collective pricing of the auction bidders?
Now please have the last word.
Cost based pricing works fine on inventory that can reasonably be replenished. $50,000 coins rarely qualify, so anticipated demand is critical. Unrealized high bid is meaningless.
Comments
Ok, here we go, you bought a 1892-S Morgan Silver Dollar in MS-60, you got it at a nice price of $50k. You can get in a higher grades, but you're going to pay a premium. Rare Morgans are always in demand and you can't believe that one in this grade has not sold for 10 years... A MS-63 are going for $120k so you have a little bit of room, but honestly not much, we're probably talking between $55k to $65k and you may start off at $70k and hope for the best... Good luck, you should have bought that 1913 Liberty nickel...
$100,000 + 8.6% processing fees + shipping.
The right person with the money for that sort of thing is gonna see the price guide and be willing to pay it.
Then, inevitably, waste a few months with the "fast money vs good money" argument in my head while I beat myself up over buying it. Then wish I never bought it in the first place. Get stressed, start drinking again. Settle for the first 85k that comes my way, maybe 80k if the person doesn't suck. Still charge them processing fees, eat the shipping. Tell myself I'm never gonna buy coins like this again and buy another one exactly like this a few weeks later for 10k more. Likely end up selling that one at a loss then talk smack on the internet to anyone who buys that kind of coin for the foreseeable future.
Edit: then invest the profits in precious metals at all time highs so I have something to complain about for the next 15 years.
I may have left out something / In that case looks like for me bid plus a pct for asking price. At that level believe bid plus around 20 pct = CPG. would want try get.around CPG range. But at that big ticket range maybe take 5-10 pct above bid and move it. Of course a PQ piece could be priced higher.
Your problem would be more consistent if you use both CDN bid and CPG. I bid on stuff all the time make notes. Won auc item recently at $58 and bid was 80 / 110 CPG retail. So the 110 goes on back of holder as retail code, the $58 as cost code. A seller might Ideally want CPG but have room come down from offer that is close. Depends on Mkt conditions / cash flow needs. But of course negotiable based on room.
So that coin $50 k cost, Bid $65 k big ticket monster (65 bid / CPG retail of 78 or 80) if the guy puts $75 k on table most likely the coin wb his. Some needing money for emergency (cc lawsuit settlement) might take the $55k.
I have decided what I pay for a table fee at show advertising expense. So if I don’t make that GM wise not real depressed.
I picked the most obvious examples. The price point is irrelevant and was not part of your original argument.
There are numerous 5 figure coins that are equally as rare, especially condition rarities. And, per my point, they don't come up very often.
There are also even cheaper coins in niche markets (exonumia, cal gold, etc) that don't appear for a decade or more at a time.
Can always try to find the frustrated underbidder...
You're arguing my point, as stated, "You're a dealer". A dealer doesn't not want to invest $50k on a coin that won't move and sit in their inventory. I have spoken to dealers at shows, and all agree that it's easier for them to buy coins then to sell. You are going after popular coins, that you can buy at a price that you know that you can sell for a profit turn...
You usually can't find the underbidder, much less, always find him.
And as I indicated in the edited title to this thread, as well as a subsequent post, the coin was already sold.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I read that, but if we stop now, we don't get to 200.
Having won it at that I would want get at least somewhere between bid and the high end close to CPG on it. However not a fan of that kind of big ticket material as can be long term hold in finding a real buyer. Don’t care about the underbidder or what somebody gave it away for - want a real buyer who gonna pay me the money especially if top pop item. Your example does not give the actual coin allowing one to look up in CDN (get CPG, and then research pop). That’s ok I can figure CPG or just apply my own markup factor above bid but pop (number graded , number higher very important.). Top Pop premium for the issue, can be way above normal pricing, especially if the coin PQ.
No. I'm not. You CAN buy 5 figure coins at auction to flip at a profit, including the one in this thread. You seem to be assuming that a coin that hasn't been auctioned for 10 years will always reach full retail at auction. It will not always do so. You don't need any more proof than the coin in this thread.
Dealers, especially niche dealers, know their market.
I won't call him out, but a large dealer in this forum flipped a mid 6 figure coin for a profit in a matter of weeks. The coin itself is ultrarare.. on the order of the 75 no S dime.
JA flipped an 1804 dollar in DAYS.
Agree to disagree then because you keep using super rare coins in you example as the 75 no S dime has only two examples known - that is "Super-rare" and sells for over $295,000.00, which is just slightly above $50k!!!
My example of an 1892-S is more inline with the original question put forth. At MS-60 you are at $50-$55k. AU is much lower and MS-63 takes a big jump - SO it is a "condition rarity" coin (as you stated in your previous post).
Now the Morgan's are very popular so it would be hard to believe none auctioned for 10 years, and you could flip it, but a dealer would not buy it at a price were it was going to sit in their inventory..
I respect you, so I'll just leave it at that. Enjoy your Sunday and the rest of this topic.. Joe
>
You sound like you’re hung up on “none auctioned for 10 years”. As I’ve posted, none had been auctioned in that grade by the same grading company in more than 10 years. But there have been other examples of the same grade by a different grading company, as well as higher and lower graded examples by both NGC and PCGS.
I only mentioned the “none of the same grade by the same grading company for more than 10 years” because that made it somewhat more difficult to come up with a value for the coin than if there had been more recent comps of examples graded by the same company.
But none of that had much, if any bearing on whether the buyer or the coin stood a good chance to be able to sell the coin at a profit.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Actually what I'm "hung up" on is in the title you state, "You're the dealer" and as a dealer you are out to make a profit because it is your "livelihood"...
You never called out NGC and/or PCGS so what if the coin was from one of the "other" 3rd parties that is not considered in their league? Would a "dealer" buy a coin (take on risk) graded by one of the lower grading companies? May explain why there has been no other auctions of that coin from this company for so long, that sounds like it could be a risk, as a dealer would you what to take on that risk?
I myself (Not as a dealer) pass on coins that are not graded by CAC, NGC or PCGS because I'm always thinking about resell...
You stated: But none of that had much, if any bearing on whether the buyer or the coin stood a good chance to be able to sell the coin at a profit.
It's not a buyer, it's a dealer and dealer would buys to sell if they could make a profit... Otherwise no college for the kiddies..
In my initial post, I included the “price guide” price. As far as I know, NGC and PCGS are the only two grading companies that publish price guides. So if the coin had been graded by a different company I wouldn’t have mentioned the price guide value. Said differently, the coin was graded by NGC or PCGS. But yes, dealers will take risks buying coins graded by other companies, just as they take risks buying coins graded by NGC and PCGS.
The likely reason that another example of the same grade by the same grading hadn’t been auctioned in more than 10 years is because the population is less than 8. However both PCGS and NGC have graded more than 20 examples higher. So in this case, if the coin had been a higher grade there probably would have been a more recent comp at the same grade by the same grading company.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
@MFeld ,
Thank you for your explanation. Seems as we needed clarification on "Price Guide" and "Auctions results"
As when I use our host price guide I want to see how they came up with it (never assume) so I do a need deep-dive and as you can see below, it include other grading companies.. (All auctions including e-Bay)
A population of <8 with only 20 in a higher examples would leave me to believe that this is a very rare coin (or far lower quality than the 20 above) and if you got it for $50k, was ready to go to $55k and there were no higher bidders, that would send off a red-flag (at least to me...) or is a great deal. Anyway, your question is just a game but I would have my concerns on this coin.
There's very low risk buying a coin graded by our host and/or NGC, if it's a sought after coin such at a Lincoln, Morgan, other, it will sell... again, IMO.
Thanks for your post, Joe
Joe, you’re most welcome.
I can understand your concern about the mystery purchase, but the buyer knew what he was doing and quickly sold the coin for an 11% profit. Keep in mind that what one person considers a risky purchase, another might consider a very good deal or vice versa.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Had he won the coin at his max bid, his sale price would have been a break even.
Interesting real time exercise.
Had he won the coin at the next increment, it’s highly doubtful that he would have been willing to sell it at the price he did - at least not for at least a few weeks,
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I could have stated that better. Dealer considered a fair bid to be $55k which was the price that he resold the coin for. Generous of him (or her) to do that. Maybe not the best business strategy though, but hey, still a nice short term return.
I see that we have already established that the dealer was a "he."
I got to stop bidding and posting at the same time.
Lol. That eliminates about 3 "she's".
We can certainly agree to disagree. The fact remains that this thread is about a real dealer and a real coin and that dealer did exactly what you say dealers won't do. Dealers buy 5 figure coins at auction weekly for resale. It is unusual, except for very rare coins, however, for their not to be a similar sale for 10 years.
Once, i bought a very rare coin - only 6 in all grades - at a Stack's auction for $160 and flipped it in a week on ebay for $300. [Not a US coin. ] Things fail to max in an auction all the time which is why dealers frequent them. This happens a lot even in the 5 figure range because you need TWO retail buyers in that night to get there.
I'm not hung up on super rarities other than those are the only ones I remember because it is so common in the 4 and 5 figure range.
Price guide says $100K. That would be my price.
Great spirits have always encountered violent opposition from mediocre minds.-Albert Einstein
So all and all an interesting post, with good interaction. I did like @Crypto reply as it had some good points.
@MFeld: you mentioned 11% profit, can you be more specific is the 11% sale price over buy price only? Or does the 11% represent the margin after all pre and post fees? As you indicated auction buy, my auction experience has had a premium fee (~15% to 22%), and there shipping, insurance (live auction?) and possibly tax. Cost on the selling side, that would depend on method used.
@jmlanzaf you mentioned that things fail to max in auctions, and find "great opportunity buys", but I have to wonder just how frequent this maybe because if "you're a true dealer", how much time can you spend reviewing many auctions searching for the "diamonds in the rough"? I mean as a dealer you're preparing, travelling and attending shows. Also maybe managing a website, going to estate sales, borrowing, bookkeeping, etc.. The dealers that I know are "road- warriors"..
Or are some (buy-sell) dealers concentrating mostly on online auctions as the main business model? It must take time and effort to be consistently successful buying on auctions and than selling. As a livelihood, time is money and there are only so many hours in a day.
From you non-US buy-sell example, after auction/e-Bay cost, I would estimate that you netted ~$67? Which is good for a non-US coin!
Good place to start and let the market decide if you are too high. That it flipped in a short time demonstrates that money was probably left on the table.
Not in today's world.
Lol. I don't know too many coin dealers who use "she" as their preferred pronoun.
As I posted elsewhere in this thread, the cost I listed included the buyer’s premium.
The dealer who won the coin and then sold it might or might not be charging the buyer for shipping - I don’t know. There wouldn’t be any other meaningful costs involved.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Not variable costs. It is the fixed costs that can be a bite in the tuchus.
Total fees on $300 is $25 ish. So i netted about $275 -$160 cost is about $110 or $115.
Many/most dealers spend numerous hours perusing auctions. Probably 1/3 to 1/2 of coins in major auctions are bought by dealers.
I don't mean to imply in any way that coins are constantly falling through the cracks, but it's enough to make it worthwhile for dealers to look.
Hopefully, I would already have a buyer or two in mind.
I would hope to flip and net 7-10%
If this failed then $80,000 and look towards long term.
Ooops... just saw the thread was a month old.
Sorry
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A day late and a dollar short my friend...
This was a quality thread.
Did the coin sell? What was the approach used if so? Are you in a better position to give more specifics now?
Yes, three days after I started this thread I posted that the coin had sold. The dealer made approximately 12% - a price that was very close to his maximum bid.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
I’m sorry I missed it. Can you tell us date, denomination, grade, service, etc.? It may help as a learning case (with the understanding the specifics could alter the pricing differential).
Sorry, as I also posted previously, I can't disclose specifics, as that would be violating a confidence.
This thread wasn't meant to be about any particular coin, but instead, about a situation that arises on occasion. As a seller, how do you price a coin that you win in auction, relative to your maximum bid (not just based on your winning bid)?
This is a long thread, so it's easy to miss some posts. I can speak from personal experience.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Appreciate the the details are kept in confidence, But blindly comparing unknown apples to elusive oranges makes the game more speculative than accurate.
Copied below is part of my first post to this thread. If I were to disclose any such information after the fact, it would be no less of a breach of a confidence. I think there was enough information presented to make the topic of interest and possible future assistance to some collectors. Anyone is free to disagree.
“For purposes of privacy, the names, places, denomination, precise numbers, date, mint, grade and grading company have been omitted.
Only the following information is available to you:
CDN bid was $65,000.
Price guide was $100,000.
The most recent sale - same grading company and grade - was more than 10 years ago at $50,000.
Your maximum bid was $55,000.
You won the coin for $50,000.”
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
But a 1895 Dollar has a much broader audience than a top population 3 C Silver at the same cost.
Liquidity generally dictates a lower markup.
And that would have been taken into account in the original bid.
This thread wasn't meant to be about the markup, per-se. It was about how do you price a coin that you win in auction, relative to your maximum bid (not just based on your winning bid)? How much weight do you give your maximum bid compared to the collective pricing of the auction bidders?
Now please have the last word.
Mark Feld* of Heritage Auctions*Unless otherwise noted, my posts here represent my personal opinions.
Cost based pricing works fine on inventory that can reasonably be replenished. $50,000 coins rarely qualify, so anticipated demand is critical. Unrealized high bid is meaningless.