GTG on this 1812 O-106 CBH

Pnies20

The 1812 is a mangled mess of a die with bisecting cracks on both the obverse and reverse. Very cool variety.

Guess the grade… (it’s in a PCGS holder)

lilolme

I am not a GTG type but that is another cracked up one that I had not seen.

jayPem

So cool!!
Let's grade the reverse first... I like it as a 35 or 40.
The 106 obverse die is basically smashed! Detail on the right hand side of the central break is strongest around 4 to 6 o'clock... VFish also?
Luster seems to be lurking all over the place... over all I'd say 30, but most likely graded P20??
🤔

PeakRarities

This one seems like a total crapshoot, Ill go XF40.

Mr_Spud

35

alaura22

Assuming there are no rim problems
XF40

lermish

I like those surfaces. 30

pursuitofliberty

I know what it was graded, so I'll only share my original guess ... VF30

And DAMN, I like me some crack!!

The big question is, does it have a provenance, and did you get it on the holder?
I know the answer, but you should share

gumby1234

25

SurfinxHI

30

constitutional_halve

40

Coinscratch

I like the look of this one but have no idea on the grade. Will copy Surf and say 30.

MFeld

Very cool looking coin!

Based on the reverse details, I'll guess 45. And I'm extremely confident that my guess will be correct...

(within 25 points).

TwoSides2aCoin

As a hopeless romantic…… AU 50. Come fight me !

hummingbird_coins

I'll give it a 25 - mushy details on obverse appear to be more die deterioration than wear.

habaraca

I grade her Gorgeous,
and she does not deserve to be entombed.
All that matters is how you feel about her.............

MFeld

@hummingbird_coins said:
I'll give it a 25 - mushy details on obverse appear to be more die deterioration than wear.

I’m curious - If you believe that the mushy obverse details aren’t due to wear, why didn’t you grade it higher?

Davidk7

My original guess was VF30 when you texted me, so I'll stick with that here.

If it helps I think it would CAC too

drddm

The 1812 O.106 is one of my favorite die marriages in the entire series, primarily because of all the die cracks on both sides. It gives this marriage loads of character in my opinion. And yours has TONS!
Love the eye appeal too on yours with the pretty toning. Congrats on picking up a fantastic example!

Yours also looks like one of the very last struck before the mint got rid of the dies.
I’m gonna guess XF, probably 45 since I can’t tell how much remaining luster there is from your images.

For comparison, as far as wear goes, this is my example. PCGS AU55

Dave

JBN

Very nice. 40.

Herb_T

35/40

hummingbird_coins

@MFeld said:

@hummingbird_coins said:
I'll give it a 25 - mushy details on obverse appear to be more die deterioration than wear.

I’m curious - If you believe that the mushy obverse details aren’t due to wear, why didn’t you grade it higher?

Because I'm guessing the PCGS grade, not the grade I would give it.

MFeld

@hummingbird_coins said:

@MFeld said:

@hummingbird_coins said:
I'll give it a 25 - mushy details on obverse appear to be more die deterioration than wear.

I’m curious - If you believe that the mushy obverse details aren’t due to wear, why didn’t you grade it higher?

Because I'm guessing the PCGS grade, not the grade I would give it.

Thank you - that makes perfect sense. And I almost guessed lower than I did for that very reason.

jacrispies

If you showed me already, I forgot, so I'll say VF-35. No CAC

PCGS grades the even mushier 1813 O-109 with lots of grace so I assume they grade this marriage accurately as well.

I have not individually studied this marriage yet, and am unfamiliar with the die state progressions. Is there a stage in the die progression or certain crack that makes this marriage more desirable? Similar to the early die state of the 50/UNI in which the mistake is more visible, I figured maybe this highly cracked marriage becomes more collectable the crackier it gets.

logger7

VF max.

jayPem

@jacrispies said:
If you showed me already, I forgot, so I'll say VF-35. No CAC

PCGS grades the even mushier 1813 O-109 with lots of grace so I assume they grade this marriage accurately as well.

I have not individually studied this marriage yet, and am unfamiliar with the die state progressions. Is there a stage in the die progression or certain crack that makes this marriage more desirable? Similar to the early die state of the 50/UNI in which the mistake is more visible, I figured maybe this highly cracked marriage becomes more collectable the crackier it gets.

Obverse 5 first used on 105..
105a has many of the obverse die cracks so the progression could be studied there.
Not sure where the prime for reverse E exists, or even if it does?
That's something to explore!

privatecoin

Vf25

jayPem

Here's my current example and one I passed on to a board member many years ago.

habaraca

Damn me........
Why? oh why? did i let her go?????

SELLERS REMORSE

Pnies20

Thanks for all the posts guys. I will say that I purchased this coin believing it was a VF30. It has a fair amount of luster for a VF coin and as some have pointed out, the details in the curls to the right of the obverse crack are indicative of a higher VF coin. It was graded a few points higher by the seller cough @habaraca and I believe his thoughts are correct but I hedged my bets based on what I thought PCGS would say. Little did I know they would go even lower.

It is in a VF20 holder. It is also originally from the collection of Henry Hilgard and is labeled as such. It is one of two coins with a Hilgard provenance. I will make a separate thread to go into this but I’m pumped! I’m a huge provenance nerd.

Here is a slab photo without any direct light.

Pnies20

MFeld

@Pnies20 said:

I nailed it - my guess was within the 25 points I was extremely confident about.😀
It looks as if the die state was completely ignored.

Pnies20

@MFeld said:

@Pnies20 said:

I nailed it - my guess was within the 25 points I was extremely confident about.😀
It looks as if the die state was completely ignored.

As soon as I read your post I thought

shish

I was thinking VF-30, agree with Mark they ignored the die state.