1883 Carson City Uncirculated

Doug2123

I have an 1883 Carson City Uncirculated, and planning on going to a coin shop to send it off to be graded. Anything i need to know? First time having a coin graded

Manifest_Destiny

Make sure it's worth grading, not damaged/cleaned etc.

vplite99

I think you will find you get better responses with pictures.

humanssuck

Are you saying it's uncirculated because that's what you think the condition is? Or because it's in a holder like this?

MFeld

Welcome to the forum.

Many examples of that date don’t merit the cost of grading.

Is the coin in a GSA holder? If so, don’t remove it.

It would help the forum help you if you can provide clear pictures of each side of the coin.

Greenstang

Without pictures to prove otherwise, I would say it is not worth getting graded.

Doug2123

Sorry didn't see how to add photos when i made the post.
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Doug2123

I am saying uncirculated, cause its in a holder that says its uncirculated. Plus the condition its in.

MFeld

Sorry to be picky, but could you shoot and show straight-on, rather than angled pictures?

PeakRarities

Dayyyyuum, that is a nice one! Looks like its at least MS 66.

hummingbird_coins

Yes, get it graded. Looks like a 66 all day. It is worth noting that our hosts do not offer an option to get the coin graded in its original GSA holder, if that is important to you then NGC may be a better choice.

cheezhed

I think you'll be pleased with the grade if you send that one in. Looks like a nice one.

MFeld

@PeakRarities said:
Dayyyyuum, that is a nice one! Looks like its at least MS 66.

I agree and had asked about straight-on images in case the tilted ones were masking flaws.

PeakRarities

@hummingbird_coins said:
Yes, get it graded. Looks like a 66 all day. It is worth noting that our hosts do not offer an option to get the coin graded in its original GSA holder, if that is important to you then NGC may be a better choice.

Actually, CACG's grades for the only two GSA's I've ever owned were pretty favorable. A local dealer friend had two graded by NGC (not CAC'd), one was an 81cc in 64 and the other an 83cc in 65. I wanted to make a courtesty purchase, he was asking full boat retail but they looked nice, so I figured what the hell.

I took off the NGC bands and sent them both to CACG. The 83cc in 65 upgraded to 65+, and the 81cc in 64 upgraded to 65. I was very pleased, and I sold them for a healthy profit.

PeakRarities

@MFeld said:

@PeakRarities said:
Dayyyyuum, that is a nice one! Looks like its at least MS 66.

I agree and had asked about straight-on images in case the tilted ones were masking flaws.

Yes, OP if you wouldnt mind...we think that your coin might be exceptional, and have a shot at a very lofty grade. Straight on photos would tell us if theres any flaws that we can't see, but you should most definitely get the coin graded. If you read my comment above, I would consider using CACG as they will command a premium over NGC in equivalent grades.

You'll want to ask your local coin store if he submits to CAC, but I'm always happy to help too if you didn't mind shipping them.

lilolme

@hummingbird_coins said:
Yes, get it graded. Looks like a 66 all day. It is worth noting that our hosts do not offer an option to get the coin graded in its original GSA holder, if that is important to you then NGC may be a better choice.

If I am reading your statement correctly, then it is not true. PCGS offers to grade the GSA in its original holder but does so by putting the GSA in a slightly larger holder that will not fit in the original box. This has been in place for some time (2013 see below).

https://www.pcgs.com/news/pcgs-encapsulates-gsa-hoard-silver-dollar

john_nyc1

That is a spectacular coin. MS66 I would guess, maybe higher. CC dollars usually have quite a few bag marks. This coin is almost flawless! Make sure you tell the grading company to leave it in that original GSA case.

john_nyc1

@hummingbird_coins PCGS will now grade these while leaving them in the GSA folder - I recently had several graded.

Doug2123

I tried taking photos straight on, but get a glare. The only scuff mark i see is on the case itself. Whats the difference if they take the coin out or leave it in the original GSA case?

Doug2123

@PeakRarities said:

@MFeld said:

@PeakRarities said:
Dayyyyuum, that is a nice one! Looks like its at least MS 66.

I agree and had asked about straight-on images in case the tilted ones were masking flaws.

Yes, OP if you wouldnt mind...we think that your coin might be exceptional, and have a shot at a very lofty grade. Straight on photos would tell us if theres any flaws that we can't see, but you should most definitely get the coin graded. If you read my comment above, I would consider using CACG as they will command a premium over NGC in equivalent grades.

You'll want to ask your local coin store if he submits to CAC, but I'm always happy to help too if you didn't mind shipping them.

So CACG is better than NGC?

cheezhed

@Doug2123 said:
I tried taking photos straight on, but get a glare. The only scuff mark i see is on the case itself. Whats the difference if they take the coin out or leave it in the original GSA case?

Several hundred dollars.

PeakRarities

@Doug2123 said:

@PeakRarities said:

@MFeld said:

@PeakRarities said:
Dayyyyuum, that is a nice one! Looks like its at least MS 66.

I agree and had asked about straight-on images in case the tilted ones were masking flaws.

Yes, OP if you wouldnt mind...we think that your coin might be exceptional, and have a shot at a very lofty grade. Straight on photos would tell us if theres any flaws that we can't see, but you should most definitely get the coin graded. If you read my comment above, I would consider using CACG as they will command a premium over NGC in equivalent grades.

You'll want to ask your local coin store if he submits to CAC, but I'm always happy to help too if you didn't mind shipping them.

So CACG is better than NGC?

All grades being equal, yes. If NGC grades it as a 67 and CACG is at 66+, then no.

That coin looks extremely clean, you may very well have a reasonable shot at ms-67 (big money).

Manifest_Destiny

Nice!

Doug2123

I took these with a better camera than my cell phone. I see some marks on the neck, but other than that looks good.

Doug2123

@PeakRarities said:

@Doug2123 said:

@PeakRarities said:

@MFeld said:

@PeakRarities said:
Dayyyyuum, that is a nice one! Looks like its at least MS 66.

I agree and had asked about straight-on images in case the tilted ones were masking flaws.

Yes, OP if you wouldnt mind...we think that your coin might be exceptional, and have a shot at a very lofty grade. Straight on photos would tell us if theres any flaws that we can't see, but you should most definitely get the coin graded. If you read my comment above, I would consider using CACG as they will command a premium over NGC in equivalent grades.

You'll want to ask your local coin store if he submits to CAC, but I'm always happy to help too if you didn't mind shipping them.

So CACG is better than NGC?

All grades being equal, yes. If NGC grades it as a 67 and CACG is at 66+, then no.

That coin looks extremely clean, you may very well have a reasonable shot at ms-67 (big money).

What is the best place to sell this coin after its graded? Also how much is a ms-67 grade worth?

MFeld

@cheezhed said:

@Doug2123 said:
I tried taking photos straight on, but get a glare. The only scuff mark i see is on the case itself. Whats the difference if they take the coin out or leave it in the original GSA case?

Several hundred dollars.

I checked recent sales of PCGS MS66 GSA and non-GSA examples and there wasn't much difference at all in the results. At the MS67 grade level, the difference could be several hundred dollars, however.

MFeld

@PeakRarities said:

@Doug2123 said:

@PeakRarities said:

@MFeld said:

@PeakRarities said:
Dayyyyuum, that is a nice one! Looks like its at least MS 66.

I agree and had asked about straight-on images in case the tilted ones were masking flaws.

Yes, OP if you wouldnt mind...we think that your coin might be exceptional, and have a shot at a very lofty grade. Straight on photos would tell us if theres any flaws that we can't see, but you should most definitely get the coin graded. If you read my comment above, I would consider using CACG as they will command a premium over NGC in equivalent grades.

You'll want to ask your local coin store if he submits to CAC, but I'm always happy to help too if you didn't mind shipping them.

So CACG is better than NGC?

All grades being equal, yes. If NGC grades it as a 67 and CACG is at 66+, then no.

That coin looks extremely clean, you may very well have a reasonable shot at ms-67 (big money).

Looking at both sets of images, it's so easy to get to MS66 or 66+ as a grade guess, that tells me that the coin has an excellent chance of grading 67.

Doug2123

@MFeld said:

@cheezhed said:

@Doug2123 said:
I tried taking photos straight on, but get a glare. The only scuff mark i see is on the case itself. Whats the difference if they take the coin out or leave it in the original GSA case?

Several hundred dollars.

I checked recent sales of PCGS MS66 GSA and non-GSA examples and there wasn't much difference at all in the results. At the MS67 grade level, the difference could be several hundred dollars, however.

Thanks. Wouldn't it being in the case affect how they grade the coin though?

Doug2123

@MFeld said:

@PeakRarities said:

@Doug2123 said:

@PeakRarities said:

@MFeld said:

@PeakRarities said:
Dayyyyuum, that is a nice one! Looks like its at least MS 66.

I agree and had asked about straight-on images in case the tilted ones were masking flaws.

Yes, OP if you wouldnt mind...we think that your coin might be exceptional, and have a shot at a very lofty grade. Straight on photos would tell us if theres any flaws that we can't see, but you should most definitely get the coin graded. If you read my comment above, I would consider using CACG as they will command a premium over NGC in equivalent grades.

You'll want to ask your local coin store if he submits to CAC, but I'm always happy to help too if you didn't mind shipping them.

So CACG is better than NGC?

All grades being equal, yes. If NGC grades it as a 67 and CACG is at 66+, then no.

That coin looks extremely clean, you may very well have a reasonable shot at ms-67 (big money).

Looking at both sets of images, it's so easy to get to MS66 or 66+ as a grade guess, that tells me that the coin has an excellent chance of grading 67.

Awesome, i hope so.

MFeld

@Doug2123 said:

@MFeld said:

@cheezhed said:

@Doug2123 said:
I tried taking photos straight on, but get a glare. The only scuff mark i see is on the case itself. Whats the difference if they take the coin out or leave it in the original GSA case?

Several hundred dollars.

I checked recent sales of PCGS MS66 GSA and non-GSA examples and there wasn't much difference at all in the results. At the MS67 grade level, the difference could be several hundred dollars, however.

Thanks. Wouldn't it being in the case affect how they grade the coin though?

You're most welcome.

While it's possible the grading could be affected, I think that's unlikely. If it were mine, I'd definitely leave it in the GSA case.

mattniss

You want to get it graded in the case, as a higher graded one in the case potentially has more value than the same one out of the case. Yours looks exceptionally nice from what I can tell in the photos you've shared. I'd say it's at least MS66, potentially higher which could mean some bigger $$.

If you don't have a trusted local coin shop in your area who can support you submitting this to a reputable third-party grading service (I personally think the CACG grading bands and "GSA Treasure" copy looks really nice on the GSA's), perhaps someone on here can guide you. There's some standup people here who might be willing to assist you in getting it done right.

lilolme

I hate to go against the board but I don't know about the grade. In my opinion it will come down to how much of the following stuff stands out under in hand and normal lighting. Also what else might be there (of course and as noted above).

First I just enlarged the first obverse photo to zoom in on an area with contact marks. Next two I tried to change the photo to better show the contact marks. This could mean I have over-enhanced them or maybe this is visible in hand.

So possibly - contact marks in the 10 o/c field and a little below, maybe on eyebrow, the bottom on nose with 3 contact marks, below eye or cheek bone has at least a frost break but that could be heavier, below that is more frost breads and a thin line going right that could be just a frost break, contact mark on forward jaw and maybe more frost breaks in darker area here and ticks on chin.

lermish

Welcome OP! I would bet the vast majority of us expected to see an unattractive cleaned or polish AU coin.

Pleasantly surprised and glad to have my assumption proven wrong. Nice coin!!!

hummingbird_coins

@lilolme said:

@hummingbird_coins said:
Yes, get it graded. Looks like a 66 all day. It is worth noting that our hosts do not offer an option to get the coin graded in its original GSA holder, if that is important to you then NGC may be a better choice.

If I am reading your statement correctly, then it is not true. PCGS offers to grade the GSA in its original holder but does so by putting the GSA in a slightly larger holder that will not fit in the original box. This has been in place for some time (2013 see below).

https://www.pcgs.com/news/pcgs-encapsulates-gsa-hoard-silver-dollar

Oops, I didn't pay close enough attention. Google featured snippets can be misleading, if you only read the text.

Doug2123

@mattniss said:
You want to get it graded in the case, as a higher graded one in the case potentially has more value than the same one out of the case. Yours looks exceptionally nice from what I can tell in the photos you've shared. I'd say it's at least MS66, potentially higher which could mean some bigger $$.

If you don't have a trusted local coin shop in your area who can support you submitting this to a reputable third-party grading service (I personally think the CACG grading bands and "GSA Treasure" copy looks really nice on the GSA's), perhaps someone on here can guide you. There's some standup people here who might be willing to assist you in getting it done right.

What price am i looking at for MS66, and MS67?

mattniss

Every coin is unique of course, but generally if it was to grade out and you were to sell, 1883-CC MS66 GSA's go for around $900 - $1000 or so, while MS67 GSA's go for anywhere from $3500 - $4000. On the flipside, a MS65 GSA only goes for about $400 - $500.

PeakRarities

@Doug2123 said:

@PeakRarities said:

@Doug2123 said:

@PeakRarities said:

@MFeld said:

@PeakRarities said:
Dayyyyuum, that is a nice one! Looks like its at least MS 66.

I agree and had asked about straight-on images in case the tilted ones were masking flaws.

Yes, OP if you wouldnt mind...we think that your coin might be exceptional, and have a shot at a very lofty grade. Straight on photos would tell us if theres any flaws that we can't see, but you should most definitely get the coin graded. If you read my comment above, I would consider using CACG as they will command a premium over NGC in equivalent grades.

You'll want to ask your local coin store if he submits to CAC, but I'm always happy to help too if you didn't mind shipping them.

So CACG is better than NGC?

All grades being equal, yes. If NGC grades it as a 67 and CACG is at 66+, then no.

That coin looks extremely clean, you may very well have a reasonable shot at ms-67 (big money).

What is the best place to sell this coin after its graded? Also how much is a ms-67 grade worth?

Others have answered the value part, but as far as where is the best venue to sell, it varies. Could be auction, direct sale to a dealer, ebay or on the BST here, at a show....There are many ways to sell, but once you get the graded back is when you can start solicitiing offers and comparing APR's to make an informed decision.

AUandAG

NGC, leave it in the holder, sell at Great Collections. (they can get it graded for you if you send them the coin in the holder, if I remember correctly).
Just call Ian and team at Great Collections and ask.
bob

Doug2123

@lilolme said:
I hate to go against the board but I don't know about the grade. In my opinion it will come down to how much of the following stuff stands out under in hand and normal lighting. Also what else might be there (of course and as noted above).

First I just enlarged the first obverse photo to zoom in on an area with contact marks. Next two I tried to change the photo to better show the contact marks. This could mean I have over-enhanced them or maybe this is visible in hand.

So possibly - contact marks in the 10 o/c field and a little below, maybe on eyebrow, the bottom on nose with 3 contact marks, below eye or cheek bone has at least a frost break but that could be heavier, below that is more frost breads and a thin line going right that could be just a frost break, contact mark on forward jaw and maybe more frost breaks in darker area here and ticks on chin.

You are right. I didn't really notice those marks, but now when I look at the coin I can see those marks.

..

Other than those few small tick marks that’s one of the cleanest fields and cheeks I’ve seen on a CC…..

PeakRarities

@AUandAG said:
NGC, leave it in the holder, sell at Great Collections. (they can get it graded for you if you send them the coin in the holder, if I remember correctly).
Just call Ian and team at Great Collections and ask.
bob

Hey Bob, would you submit it to CAC stickering after NGC?

7Jaguars

Yes, we would all like to see. What was the origin of this coin? Cherrypicked?

AUandAG

@PeakRarities said:

@AUandAG said:
NGC, leave it in the holder, sell at Great Collections. (they can get it graded for you if you send them the coin in the holder, if I remember correctly).
Just call Ian and team at Great Collections and ask.
bob

Hey Bob, would you submit it to CAC stickering after NGC?

Only if it got a 67.
bob

lilolme

@Doug2123 said:

@lilolme said:
I hate to go against the board but I don't know about the grade. In my opinion it will come down to how much of the following stuff stands out under in hand and normal lighting. Also what else might be there (of course and as noted above).

First I just enlarged the first obverse photo to zoom in on an area with contact marks. Next two I tried to change the photo to better show the contact marks. This could mean I have over-enhanced them or maybe this is visible in hand.

So possibly - contact marks in the 10 o/c field and a little below, maybe on eyebrow, the bottom on nose with 3 contact marks, below eye or cheek bone has at least a frost break but that could be heavier, below that is more frost breads and a thin line going right that could be just a frost break, contact mark on forward jaw and maybe more frost breaks in darker area here and ticks on chin.

You are right. I didn't really notice those marks, but now when I look at the coin I can see those marks.

Cool. When looking at the coin tilt it (normally left to right but some tilt top to bottom or both) and the luster (beam) or cartwheel will move around the coin. While doing this look for the contact marks or changes similar to above. Some will show up better under different positions of the light. Can watch different areas as you tilt it.

This also works for the photos, that is moving the slab, light (or camera) to move the luster around. Two desk lamps on opposite sides or similar is better. In the one photo I can see a reflection of the 4 bulb overhead light which can be different but still works some.

May help or not but this link just shows how moving the light or coin around can move the luster (beam) or cartwheel. Again two lights would get two luster beams / cartwheels. And you are correct, those large GSA slabs want to reflect everything and can be more difficult on glare. But I always say I am not a photographer.

https://forums.collectors.com/discussion/1080946/luster-lights-and-angles/p1

Even higher graded Morgans will have some marks.

PeakRarities

@Doug123

I visited GC's archives and compared the 12 most recent CAC approved 66 & 66+ examples, broken down by average.

The Non CAC group, which is an even distribution of PCGS & NGC, came out to an average of $1,138.

The CAC approved group, entirely comprised of PCGS graded coins, averaged out to $1,603.

john_nyc1

In case anyone is interested in what these look like after grading in PCGS over-sized slabs:

The new, outside PCSG case encapsulates the original GSA case, they no longer fit in the original GSA packaging.

Copperindian

Lots of good posts to this thread. I thought I would weigh in as I used to both collect & sell GSA’s for more than 10 years.
The coin is really nice & I think it has a better than average chance @ a 66 grade. The scuffing seems minor, especially for a GSA. The neck area is where it’s heaviest, but that too is common for a GSA.
I’ll suggest, though, that you do side by side comparisons to 1883-CC GSA’s that are graded 66 (or better). If yours doesn’t quite measure up to those, then think hard about submitting it to be graded. Why?
1883-CC’s in the GSA series were minted & are available in big numbers. I think your “buy” target is a dedicated GSA collector. Since these are easy to obtain nice, that collector would likely want a 66 or better.
It gets a little more complicated in that some of those collectors like to buy these ungraded. In fact, I used to work with a Morgan dealer who would only buy them that way. They also like what comes with them: a fully hinged black box & a correctly numbered COA that’s in decent shape & NOT A COPY. If you have neither of these, they’re fairly easy & inexpensive to obtain. eBay is a pretty good source.
I won’t discount there may be non-GSA collectors that may be interested in a 66 grade or better. But, imo, they’re a minority by comparison.
Finally, I used to work with GSA specialist dealers. If you would like a referral, PM me & I’ll give you a name or two.
Good luck with this; I think posters here would be interested in the outcome.

1northcoin

@Doug2123 said:

@lilolme said:
I hate to go against the board but I don't know about the grade. In my opinion it will come down to how much of the following stuff stands out under in hand and normal lighting. Also what else might be there (of course and as noted above).

First I just enlarged the first obverse photo to zoom in on an area with contact marks. Next two I tried to change the photo to better show the contact marks. This could mean I have over-enhanced them or maybe this is visible in hand.

So possibly - contact marks in the 10 o/c field and a little below, maybe on eyebrow, the bottom on nose with 3 contact marks, below eye or cheek bone has at least a frost break but that could be heavier, below that is more frost breads and a thin line going right that could be just a frost break, contact mark on forward jaw and maybe more frost breaks in darker area here and ticks on chin.

You are right. I didn't really notice those marks, but now when I look at the coin I can see those marks.

The fact that those "marks" are not on the face is probably most important, at least for eye appeal. IMHO they don't distract from the wow factor of that stunning coin.

lilolme

I never really collected the GSA but somehow wound up with many. Just one of those things when collecting Morgans years and years ago that would pick up a GSA now and then. When the prices went up I sold most but kept 7 or one each of the 'easy' years. Coincidently when NGC was at a nearby show this year I thought might as well get them graded (so these are recently graded) even though I was just going to keep them. I was mostly pcgs Morgan but the ngc GSA I could put back in the box (don't like pcgs slabbed gsa as don't fit in box).

What was interesting was the now ngc grades on some compared to what they were 'stickered' as by the dealers at the time and what I thought then. This was the mid to late 90's. Thought it could help the OP a little, but still just a photo, as it kind of shows how much they allow on some of these (in my opinion). They all have strong luster (as most CC GSA do) and that helps to bump the grade some. Not sure if pcgs grade would differ.

I tried to take a photo of the obverse of three but these GSA slabs give the snap-o'matic a little bit of a problem so kind of bright and a little off focus. Slightly off axis to avoid getting the camera reflection in the coin area.

This 80CC was purchased as a 64 (paid 250 - remember late 90's) and I thought 65. It is NGC 66.
.

.
This 81CC was purchased as a 64 (paid 180) and I thought maybe 65. It is NGC 65.
.

.
This 85CC was purchased as a 63 (paid 200) and I thought maybe 64. It is NGC 65.
.

.

Copperindian

@lilolme: thoughtful post & thanks much for the pics! Should be helpful to the OP….

Doug2123

@lilolme said:
I never really collected the GSA but somehow wound up with many. Just one of those things when collecting Morgans years and years ago that would pick up a GSA now and then. When the prices went up I sold most but kept 7 or one each of the 'easy' years. Coincidently when NGC was at a nearby show this year I thought might as well get them graded (so these are recently graded) even though I was just going to keep them. I was mostly pcgs Morgan but the ngc GSA I could put back in the box (don't like pcgs slabbed gsa as don't fit in box).

What was interesting was the now ngc grades on some compared to what they were 'stickered' as by the dealers at the time and what I thought then. This was the mid to late 90's. Thought it could help the OP a little, but still just a photo, as it kind of shows how much they allow on some of these (in my opinion). They all have strong luster (as most CC GSA do) and that helps to bump the grade some. Not sure if pcgs grade would differ.

I tried to take a photo of the obverse of three but these GSA slabs give the snap-o'matic a little bit of a problem so kind of bright and a little off focus. Slightly off axis to avoid getting the camera reflection in the coin area.

This 80CC was purchased as a 64 (paid 250 - remember late 90's) and I thought 65. It is NGC 66.
.

.
This 81CC was purchased as a 64 (paid 180) and I thought maybe 65. It is NGC 65.
.

.
This 85CC was purchased as a 63 (paid 200) and I thought maybe 64. It is NGC 65.
.

.

Thanks for all the info, and pics. Very helpful.